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Goi Needs To Restructure ( Lower ) Gst To Kickstart Economy

By Cruise_b'lore | 21-May-2020

Hello folks,

My gut feeling says that GOI will be forced to reduce the GST slabs or merge the higher ones into lower ones to kickstart the economy which happens to be in shambles.
COVID-19 pandemic has thrown our economy totally out of control ( in distress ) and only a rethink on lowering GST slabs will help.
How many are in agreeance with that?

regds,
Cruise 

Post Your reply

29 Replies

Cruise_b'lore said ...

30-May-2020

Hello folks,

Top economists have voiced that GST slabs need to be lowered to help improve the economy of our country. They opine that there is no other go.
I was glad to hear that coming from the people who matter.
Let's hope and pray that it does happen so, sooner than later.

regds,
Cruise

Raghavan said ...

29-May-2020

Cruise B'lore,

Your queston, to put it most charitably, is silly.

Anyway, you can browse the two web sites,  GST New delhi & GST Karnataka.

But, what I can not understand is, your confidence that the GST authorities, on receipt of your letter,  will re consider the highest slab of GST that is imposed on race betting.   You are the man with highest optimism.

Anyway, my best wishes.  Let your efforts bring down the GST to 12% or at least 18%.  Entire punting community, especially the tote bettors will be grateful for ever.

By the way, what happened to your gut feeling that the Government will be forced to reduce the GST so that economy will improve by leaps & bounds?

Cruise_b'lore said ...

28-May-2020

Hello folks,

Can anyone provide the the contact number and e-mail of the GST council so that they can be apptoached to hasten up the process of restructing the present GST slabs.
No harm in giving them our perspective besides the TAI. We punters are also an integral part of this wonderful sport.
May be that may spur them on to re-comsider the highest slab allocated to horse racing. After all, H'ble Supreme Court has deemed horse racing as a game of skill.
Any takers for that?

regds,
Cruise

Raghavan said ...

28-May-2020

Cruise_B'lore,

"A lie repeated 100s of times, may eventually confuse the reader and he may start to wonder whether it is true"!

So, you really believe that to kickstart economy and bring it back to pre lockdown days, the Government will be forced to cut the GST.  Well.  Your optimism is very much appreciated.

The Government opened liquor shops  from 4th May, and actually increased the effective rate of taxation.  I believe that for race betting also they may further harass the punters by way of cess.   So, I can not upvote your views.  

Let your intuition prove correct.  

 

Cruise_b'lore said ...

26-May-2020

Hello folks,

GST slabs may have to be reduced to kickstart economy. There is no other go.
GOI should do that at the earliest to regain ground lost due to Covid-19 pandemic.
Expecting that to happen soon.

regds,
Cruise

Sandeep said ...

26-May-2020

I agree

Raghavan said ...

26-May-2020

"Diwali 2020 is during middle of November!  So till then whoever feels that the GST slab will be reduced may offer their tweets and whoever is not expecting any sort of relief will better stay silent".

If the author feels that the new slabs will be operative from November, then the least he could have done is to remain silent till then..  When there is not even a whisper from anyone in Government,, I fail to understand with which divine intuition the author is speaking a blatant lie.  O K.  Let his wish come true.  But, let him learn to speak in public sites.  It is very easy to slam any one who is not agreeing with his view point as being negative.

Race Joker said ...

26-May-2020

The inequality in dividends between Tote and Bookies exists because Bookies take bets at half-tax giving them the luxury to give higher odds. But with tote there is a cut of 28% gst + club commision. If both are at same level then India Tote will also flourish like it is at Hong Kong, USA atc. Also a single tote across India will furthur enhance collections. More punters will bet with tote as tote has a bigger variety of pools.

Raghavan said ...

26-May-2020

Joker,

"It is not possible to correct the bookies.  They will not care even if there is police raid frequently.  So...stop writing about bookies"

Good idea.  But, that will spoil my reputation as "broken gramophone".  So I will continue writing in the same manner.  If possible, you try to avoid citicising me on that count.

"I think they should not apply 28% on the bet amount".

The GST council has ruled that the 28% GST should be on the bet amount.  Unless someone challenges this ruling in High Court/SC, and the Court quashes such ruling, what GST council says only will prevail.  What you think or what I think is immaterial.

"The Government should permit reputed book stalls to take bet on Indian races and those betting companies should pay a good amount to Govt as royalty"!  Mr Joker, there is a proverb in Tamil.  Pogatha oorukku vazhi thedathe... (Do not search for route to cities which you are not visitng)

"The Govt should allow online betting  It should also permit us to bet on races abroad".  Right.  Your thoughts are good.  Wait for another 30 years.  Let youngsters (age group 35 to 50) get elected as MP/MLA/Councillor in the year 2050+.  They may grant your wish.  

"Racing is a game of skill"!  What you say is perfectly correct.  That is the ruling by the Supreme Court.  However, I prefer to view race betting as nothing but gambling.  

Cruise_b'lore said ...

25-May-2020

Hello folks,

Recent announcements by FM has given sops for manufacturing sector but has neglected the consumers who are ones to create demand. Without demand, production units will find it difficult to sell their produce. 

A few months is all that is needed for GOI to understand the outcome of present high GST slabs. 

Hence, I feel, that GOI will be forced to restructure GST before Diwali.That is the only way to kick start the economy.

Those in agreeance may call in and rest would do good by keeping quiet till Diwali.

regds,
Cruise

regds,
Cruise

The Joker said ...

25-May-2020

Hi Raghavsn sir,

By now you would have had q diploma in bookie pyschology.

Please move on from that topic of yours.

Its a part n parcel that these will exist

.

After numerous IT n police raids if they continue leave them to their own means.

Now thin? abt GsT which is beating the tote nos.

What i thinl is the tax should nog be on the bets put by punter but on profits earned by the club bookies.

Furst they deduct 28% + club commissions which might be upto 50 to 60% of the total.sum.

To start govt can put just 5% tax plus guidelines that.no bookies should operate.

Allow Ber65, william hill, ladbroke betway n other sites to.operate provided they pay 15 to 20 percent on their earnings.

Like wid liquor, this will be a huge sum.

Tacing is a game of skill like dream 11 n other sites.

Then it will also fill stsye n center coffers.

If online lottery can be allowed then why not online racing.

Also we will hv a wide of rsces to punt on

YBringing ppl betting with offline bookies back to mainstream

Also no need of wasting money  going to rc n getting mind boggled, sit at homd study n play. Also instead of 6-8 u hv a bucket of 70-80 races you can bet on n select best option

 

 

 

Cheers

The Joker

Raghavan said ...

25-May-2020

Cruise_B'lore,

I am a tote bettor.  If the Government reduces the GST, I will be doubly pleased.   I am not Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.  Any rule from the Government that has the potential to put an additional 100/- in my pocket will be most welcome.

Those who bet with bookies will not care whether GST is reduced or increased.  O K.  I do not know economics.  Perhaps you know it better!

But, in that case you should support your hypothesis with sound logic/reason!  And 'gut feeling' should not be the basis for your theories.

Simply shouting that the rabbit that I caught had only three legs will not be of any help.  

The Government never cared for its revenue from horse race betting.  There was great recession during 2007 to 2009.  But, there was no decrease of tax rates on race betting.  57% was being deducted  on Super Jackpot bets.  The Government never cared to intervene even in such day light robbery! 

The horse race punters constitute a hopeless minority.  Around 1 lakh punters out of 135 cr.  If the Government is really serious about the revenue from horse race, it would have instilled fear among bookies by frequent raids and punishing the bookies with prison terms.   The seriousness or lack of it can be appreciated if we look at ground reality.  In around 12 years of race betting, there was just one raid by police at Mumbai & one raid by Commercial Tax officers at Bangalore. 

And you are peddling the theory that to restore economy, they will reduce the tax rates.  We could have given credence to your theory if anyone in authority had at least hinted to that extent.  

You have a gut feeling that the Government will reduce GST on horse betting.  I have a gut feeling that the Government will reduce the GST on cigarettes and liquors.  We can keep on arguing for days/months on the feasibility of such moves/actions by the Government.  And any argument must have some acceptable logic.  For eg it would be realistic if you had said that as per your gut feeling, the train fares would be increased by 15% to 25%.    

Do not peddle any theory just for the heck of it.

 

Raghavan said ...

25-May-2020

Joker,

The topic is "lower GST slab- higher turnover & higher revenue to the Govt".

I do not think I have strayed from the topic.  

My argumrnt is even if the Govt reduces the GST on betting to 5%, there will be no appreciaable increase in revenue!  For obvious reasons! 

Speaker after speaker, are objeting to my posts that they sound like old gramophone record.   I no longer care such objections.  I continue to write about the dubious/dirty games that bookies play!

I/We know very well that our posts will not be read by Sports Minister, Finance Minister or top ranking Economist.  If people lke Cruise, Joker, JP etc browse this site and care to post a reply, we are more than satisfied.    

"We should stop advising the Government on policy matters"!   We people are always busy teaching democracy to Americans and economics to Europeans.  But, you could set an example.  You could stop avoiding advises to the horsetalk members as to what they should write or what they should not.

Ayyarnet:

Let the bookies run the business from their residence.   Let them do it from Dubai or Paris or Washington.  Absolutely no problem.  All that I am asking is if they accept bet as licensed bookmaker in the ring, they should all obey the rules framed by the Government. 

Cruise_b'lore said ...

24-May-2020

Hello folks,

Well, we all have had our say. But my gut feeling says that GOI will be forced to restructure GST as there is simply no other go to kick start the economy.
The coming months will soon have an answer to that.

regds,
Cruise

Race Lover said ...

24-May-2020

Hii dear all 

Thinking is waste in this topic .

Goi who is now  they will think of racing get.

Who  as not thinked of Indians. 

And brought gst and now they will drop good joke.

Till the next goi forget that gst will reduce .

Regards 

Race lover .

 

The Joker said ...

24-May-2020

Hi

Just going through the comments.

N our Raghavan garu continues with his old tape recorders.

Topic is wat, you are discussing what.

I sincerely think you should stop commenting on topics where your expertise is not required.

Do u think anybody in thd top echelon ever reads ur comments.

So suggest please do not comment on each n every post where ur inference is not required

Thanks

TJ

 

 

Golden Viper said ...

24-May-2020

You mean well but sadly the wrong group is running North block  ,be rest assured NO CHANGE IN GST  for the next 2 years will  occur

We have to live with 28%gst. racing or no racing.

Start  seems to be far  away with no hope in the next few months.

The local  govts  will insist  on social  distances and it is upto the clubs to adhere to it.  can they?

PLease  a humble request to all here stick to the subject and not get carried away with your own lopsided views on other subjects

Ayyarnet said ...

23-May-2020

IIf we remove te Bookies from thescened they will do flourishing business from Home. They hae more contactswith punters than the Club.  How many times Govt can ride their premises. In India it is difficult. I am told that many Book Makersare operating from Dubai to cater local customers.Our Govt is not as strict as Singapore Govt or Honkong Govt. where the Law is indeed a Law. Nobody isabove the Law.

Another thing is Karnataka Govt wants the Race course premises by any method. COVID is indeed a boon for them.

Best Regards 

ayyarnet

 

Iron Man said ...

23-May-2020

Govt should accepted fix amount from every clubs rather than tax ..

Raghavan said ...

23-May-2020

Ksmrow,

"Bookies are not allowed at Hong kong races".  Thanks for information.  There may be other countries also where bookies are not permitted.  I have no information as to which countries permit bookies and which do not.

I also desire that the GST for race betting should be reduced.  Of course what we desire and what we get are entirely different things.

But, the existing level of GST for race bettings will not be reduced in the near future. We should all feel happy if the Government does not levy an additional "calamity cess".   

You say that there are many changes regarding GST and a drop in GST is not a far fetched expectation.  If that happens we will surely welcome.  Who has seen tomorrow?   

Cruise says lower taxation is good  for economy.  I wish to remind him that a great economist Dr MMS was the Prime Minister when GST was implemented.  The Government could have easily amassed crores by way of GST if they had legalised on line betting.   (On line betting means one can bet even if he is at Kashmir or Kanyakumari, OR at Gujarat to Assam.  Why they did not permit on line bettng then?  The Government feels it is not ethical.

 

Chase said ...

23-May-2020

With GST or with reduction in GST , Sport activities including horse racing will revive sooner. May be from August or September. With just Tote. Without Bookies. May be with online betting on tote. 

Ofcourse bookies will be there outside of the course unofficially. Illegal betting is big business. Cricket betting is big , very big , bigger than horse racing bets. 

Whether you allow it or not bookies will be playing their trade. 

So don't worry about bookies. 

Big connections also don't worry about ordinary punter participation in races. They have cozy relations with inland and overseas bookies.  They will make sure that horse racing resumes with or with out spectator's.

Hp++ said ...

23-May-2020
GOI shud reduce race GST by 50% for 2 years and see the result..No pont in guesssing what wud otherwise happen..

But then there are many other such suggestions.

Ksmrow said ...

23-May-2020

Freinds,

Gambling involving a bookmaker is illegal in Hong Kong. Betting with a bookmaker and bettingin a place other than a gambling establishment is illegal. The Hong Kong Jockey Club holds a government-granted monopoly on horse races, why not this happens in India in the past numerous occasions punters and race clubs done with out bookies.

During the 2014-2015 racing season the Hong Kong Jockey Club attracted about HK$138.8 million (US$17.86 million) per race more that any other track in the world. Hong Kong Jockey Club broke its own record during the 2016-2017 season with a turnover of HK$216.5 billion and paid the government HK$21.7 billion in duty and profits tax, an all-time high.

the Club generates economic and social value for the community and supports the Government in combatting illegal gambling. In 2018/19, the Club made a record return to the Government of HK$23.3 billion in duty and profits tax .

many unexpected changes in economy sectors are taken place recently nothing wrong expecting reduction in GST for horse racing.

Raghavan said ...

23-May-2020

HMV,

Tired of my repetition?  O K.  I can not avod speaking about the dirty tricks of bookies.  It is a pleasant surprise that at BTC commercial tax officers raided bookies stall.  The bookies  have looted the punters, cheated the Government & club for years together with that illegal "half tax".  I think to you this also sounds like a broken gramophone?  O K.  Whenever such comments appear, I will be pleased that I am speaking facts/reality.  

You are not the first person to ridicule my writing as 'broken record'.  And you will not be the last one either!

Cruise Bangalore,

"Why would or why should I bother about bookies?  I only state that GST should be reduced so that economy will improve!"

"Your obsession with bookies is not my concern!"

Cruise, I do not know how to react.  You are talking about reduction in GST so that sales at tote will increase, and economy will improve!  

Can you tell me what  improvement you expect in tote sales if GST is reduced?  At BNG and HYD, the tote sales does not amount to even 10% of the bettings with bookies.  And even that much sales is mainly because of the many off course betting points.  At other centers, the tote sales will not be even 5% of the total bets  Classic case is Chennai tote.  There are many times where I have seen dividends carried over 35/-!  Yes.  You heard right.  Thirtyfive!

The maximum transaction/betting is with bookies.  And the revenue the Government gets from bookies is next to nothing.   Why should you get annoyed?  I always speak what is open secret.

You can either agree with me or disagree.  But  you should be fair and the disagreement should be reasonable.  If you think that if the present rate of GST 28% is reduced to 18%, 12% or 5% etc, that will increase the sales at tote,by leaps and bounds and all punters will desert bookies and queue up before the tote,  I can only pity your innocence!  Your thoughts and writings are too utopan!  The harsh truth is there will not be any appreciable increase in tote sales AND the   improvement in GST payable by the bookies is big zero.

You want me to be constructive, positive!  Sorry baba.  On this subject I will only speak like this.  I do not believe in singing "Jai HO" to Cruise or anybody else.  If you feel that my wrtings lack merit, then absolutely no problem.  Just ignore what I have written!  If you shout at me, then I will be having no option but to reply to you in the same tone and tenor.

Post script : Forget about Government reducing GST.   The SUN may rise in the West.  GST will not be reduced.

Cruise_b'lore said ...

22-May-2020

Hello Raghavan,

Why would or why should I bother about the bookies!
My statement on GST was for the basic good of our country's economy, and if in the process horse racing were to benefit, then why not?
Your obsession with what bookies would do then is not my concern. I guess, you are just focused about that.
Reduction of GST on racing would do a world of good and help in recovering lost ground by increasing the Tote dividends which in turn would increase the turnover manifold. Would that not we want?
But. I guess, your line of thinking is totally contrary to that of mine. Can't change the way of think?

Try to be more positive than being 'confronattonist' which you generally tend to be when interacting with most in here.

See you with something more constructive next time around.

regds,
Cruise

Hmv said ...

22-May-2020

@Raghavan

Repeating the same like a broken record. Try to understand the gist of the matter before writing.

Raghavan said ...

22-May-2020

Cruise Bangalore,

You are telling that GOI will be forced to reduce the GST rates for horse betting, so that Government will get higher revenue and that will help to infuse health tonic to economy.

Let us presume that the Government reduces the GST rates to 12%, and a punter is required to pay up 16% of his investment to GST + club commission.  The bookies will then accept bets at 6% of the bet value.

On the other hand, if the Government reduces the GST to 18%, and the club commission  is 4%, the effective burden on a punter will be 22%.  In that case, the bookies will take bets at 8% of the bet value.

The bookies are enemy-no-1 of Government and punters.  Even if the GST rates are reduced to 5%, and the club commission is 4%, the bookies will take bets at 3%.

So, all your gut feeling will sound fine and pragmatic only on paper.  Totally at variance with the ground reality.

The bookies for more than a decade have cheated the Government and the club.  I am not telling that only bookies are at fault.  The punters & turf club supervisors are also equally responsible.  

The BTC bookies were given a nice dressing down by the commercial tax officers.  The amount confiscated by the c. t. o. does not add up to even 0.01% of the total loot from the bookies.  The bookies are so arrogant that they do not take bets less than one thousand even from the punters who are ready to cough up the high GST.  (there are many bookies at BTC who demand minimum 2200/- bet).

The Government is not at all interested in grabbing any extra revenue from the Head of account: tax from race betting.    The BTC was closed for several months about 3 years back, because the Govt refused to grant license.  Nothing happened.  Of course there was more than usual crowd in bus/trains to Mysore!

I have written about this menace several 100 times; while the bookies who read my post/s may be just amused, the punters are more vociferous in brow beating me to silence.  The club supervisors are hand in glove with the bookies. 

If at all the Government desires to earn extra revenue, then it must ban the bookies first.

C. R. Dass said ...

22-May-2020

Yes, I'm fully supporting your opinion 

Jp said ...

22-May-2020

All from manufacturers to retailers are asking for GST waiver. So,as you have said I also feel GOI may reduce the GST at least for 2 to 3 years. Otherwise,it may be impossible to revive the economy. This will also reduce the prices of commodities for comman man.