Apart from the time spent at the race course,we,regular race goers,spend a lot of time in preparations.These include scrutiny and analysis of handicaps,acceptances,race card and other related aspects.
We can broadly divide racing into two categories:-
1.The science of handicapping
2.The art of punting
1.It is well know fact that the official handicapper allots weights on certain established conventions.In theory the objective of the exercise is to neutralise the differences in the potential of various runners in a race.The scope of his work is restricted by rules and conventions.
herein lies the opportunity of the race analyst to make his own handicapping and scrutiny to assess the chances of runners in a given race.From one point of view , we can do our own handicapping taking into reckoning ll other factors that the official handicapper was not in a position to do.These would include jockeys,trainers,distances etc.
there are various methods of weight handicapping.So much material is also available on the sites.Devise your own method,test it and upgrade it and put it use.
The method devised by you must be a simple one.The same should be amenable to usage and application in the half an hour that exists between two races.
Handicapping,in a broader sense includes scrutiny of trainers,intentions,merits of jockeys,changes in them,odds etc.These we learn to weigh in our conclusions and decisions by experience.
That is all there to it.
2.Punting is a matter of experience,it is more of an art.Intution also plays a part in it.The commotion and the atmosphere at the race course s bound to affect many.
My own Dictum is :-
DO NOT INVITE THE BET
LET THE BET INVITE YOU.
45 Replies
Gavin said ...
22-May-2017
@ The Doc
You should not be blaming others when you started this game of playing superior. You had no reason to take my reference to the Martingale system out of context and patronizingly ‘teach’ me that it can’t be used by everybody. Courtesy and decorum begin at home!!!
Gavin said ...
20-May-2017
@ Krisna
Of course there is no copy right but there is no originality or courage of conviction in simply copying somebody else’s lines including even the mistakes, if that is really what has happened. Otherwise, it becomes it too much of a coincidence.
@ The Doc
You will agree that such verbatim copying including mistakes may be happening once in a blue moon. Readers suspecting mischief in such cases would be only natural.
By the way, even in your last post on 16.5.17 at 9:48:08 AM presuming it is really yours, you have addressed @ The Doc (that would be yourself) saying ‘Both are different’. What conclusion should readers draw from this except to think that the episode is getting murkier with every new post!!!
You are definitely not stupid but even the smartest of people make mistakes sometimes.
The Doc said ...
19-May-2017
@ STV Chennai
Chalta hai sirji.. You can't help few non sensibilities ..
This is how things are happening here these days. You post something..few react, try to prove they are superior and make it point to make a personal remark against the writer.. and the whole thread goes off course..
And my dear friends don't feel sorry..as u said it's my predicament and it's not ur doing...hahaaha
Stv,chennai said ...
18-May-2017
Doc,
I was not active here for an year or so.Hence I wished to enter with a post on some basics in racing,more meant for new comers and those who have not cared to look at racing in a proper perspective.I opined that we could make our burden less.
I felt very happy to be greeted by old friends on my re re entry.At the same time a few,including you expressed the reason for their staying away from postings.While appreciating their concerns I suggested that we continue to write hoping things will take a turn for the better in the near future.
Apart from the greetings, the discussions were going on well here.Writers pointed out that there cannot be a strict reference to 'science and arts 'here and in fact my classification could be just the opposite of what it is.They also referred to the 'Martingale system'and other valid considerations as 'local conditions'.The discussions were very useful.
Unfortunately the discussions thereafter took a unhealthy deviation and I feel sorry that there are unwanted personal references.
At the beginning itself,you expressed your reservation to write here.I find your concerns are proving true.I feel all the more sorry for myself being the reason for your predicament.
Kindly excuse me for the same.
Krisna said ...
17-May-2017
Mad Max and gavin
what if u use the same words.its only that i second what Doc says need i use new words?
this is attrocious .there is no copy right issue on the words I use .
The Doc said ...
16-May-2017
@ Admin
Kindly clarify about the doubt of esteemed HTians whether The Doc and Krishna are the same people.
@ Mad MAx and Gavin
Do u think i am that stupid??? reapeat the same lines with different IDs???
@ Krishna
Your repeatation of my lines has put very serious mark on my integrity on this forum. Please come forward and clarify..
One thing for sure, i can tolerate any kind of criticism but nothing on my integrity.
@The Doc
Both are different
Mad Max said ...
15-May-2017
@ Raghavan
Late Vamanan lost 19 selections in a row. Even I criticised him for his failures.
Sadly I did not appreciate him either when he was giving successful winning tips one after another. He is no more - died of cancer 2 or 3 years back. RIP.
@ Chanakya
You have a point !
Krisna & The Doc "both used same 11 words" in their respective write up. This creates doubt in our mind about the writers integrity towards HT. Who is original, who is fake it is difficult to understand.
Gavin said ...
15-May-2017
@ Chanakya
The current trend also includes writing under different names seemingly to garner support for one's opinions and demands.
Krisna said ... On : 5/13/2017 10:11:21 AM
Lets not get all confused with science, mathematics and art and........
The Doc said ... On : 5/12/2017 2:37:21 PM
............Lets not get all confused with science, mathematics and art and.....
Too much of a coincidence that even the mistakes are a verbatim match!!!!
Chanakya said ...
14-May-2017
@ Gavin,
I have seen many trends and changes on these sites during last 14 years...
The brashness and crass language was rarely seen which is common today.May be earlier losers/winners were more easygoing and considerate. They had real competition in their words,postings and selections unlike the virtual ideas and games tossed around in the real world today. Times change, so do people...
Anyway, going back to my real world...Goodbye...
Gavin said ...
14-May-2017
@ Chanakya
Sadly that is the latest trend here. I totally agree about integrating local conditions. That is a part of the ‘art’.
@ Krishna
If we properly understand the concept, follow the right process, we stand a far better chance of realizing our goals. What is the use of just getting selections when you don’t know what their chances of succeeding are?
Raghavan said ...
14-May-2017
Vamanan (deceased) was a popular tipster in this site.
Had his share of fans & of course critics too.
But no one cursed or berated him as long as he was tipster.
Somewhat over-confident, he promoted himself as betting adviser and asked his followers to bet according to his instructions with a starting capital of 30k.
Unfortunately all his 10 or 12 tips thereafter failed and 30k eroded. It was only then that some shockingly rude and unfriendly posts & hyper critical messages started appearing on this site.
His tips had failed earlier too. He had his quota of bouquets & brickbats. But, the comments that followed his failed tips earlier were not that much damning. Anyway, the string of failures after of his ambitious approach of 30k bets when there was not even a single winner, put him on a spot and the losers had no patience to take losses in their stride. 30k those days could be valued at 60k nowadays.
Anyway admitting to his over-reach, Vamanan stopped his tipping business.
A highly respected person in this site unfortunately failed to guess what would the mood of his followers if his new approach failed.
We really miss you Vamanan jee.
Chanakya said ...
13-May-2017
@ Gavin,
Matingale system is a part of science, and those few who know it, use it for their benefit - whether for punting or any other risky venture. Most of them here can not and perhaps never will be able to use it- because all their energies, attention and interests revolve around the riddle, which runner is going to win...
give us the tips and then we will assess you , is the motto. Late Vamanan was euolised when he won, cursed when he lost and dumped when his usefulness diminished...
Any system based on science or art or a combination of both, will work if 'local' conditions are incorporated in it...
That is my opinion - may be right or may be wrong. But I believe in it...
Gavin said ...
13-May-2017
@ The Doc
If I am citing the Martingale system, you can be sure that I am aware of what it is and who can use it. I am just calling a spade a spade without beating about the bush. No sarcasm No patronizing.
Krisna said ...
13-May-2017
Gavin
Lets not get all confused with science, mathematics and art and lets get your choices and see that it wins or at least places.Rest is all formation of words and adjectives
The Doc said ...
12-May-2017
Dear Mr GAvin
I have not missed ur point.. intentionally or otherwise..Also i have not ingnored other methods of money managements (as none is explicitly mentioned by u othet than martingale's). I just mentioned the limitation for adopting Martingale system.
I am not driving any point here.. just mentioned few things i practice..
Lets not get all confused with science, mathematics and art and lets not be sarcastic. We can have discussions without it..
Regards
Gavin said ...
12-May-2017
@ The Doc
You have missed my point altogether about the martingale system - intentionally or otherwise. I have not advocated it but only given it as an example of systems for punting which makes punting a science. In the same context, I have also talked about methods for money management which you have completely ignored while trying to drive your point.
@ STV
Handicapping - broad or narrow is secondary- is a science, which is what you said. Now if you are saying that the science contains an art inside it, it is a different matter. Handicapping is meant for making a selection for the purpose of betting.
Exchanging selections is hardly punting. Punting means betting – how much to bet. If you mean that punting means giving advice, then I have nothing to say.
That is why I said it will mislead some punters especially those who are trying to learn new methods.Clear fundas is an absolute necessity.
Svkraju said ...
12-May-2017
@ THE DOC
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.
ALL THE BEST
The Doc said ...
12-May-2017
@ GAvin
Martingale system can't be adopted by each and everyone. You need to have good bank balance to sustain the loses till u make a winning bet.
What's rather simple is keeping unit of bet uniform. Most of the time we happen to lose the big bet and win on small ones. This is the main reason for loses to punetr (My personal opinion, i may be wrong). But through personal experience i can suggest
- No bets on on money horses, minimum odds for betting above 1.10.
- look for place bets, less odds but somewhat steady returns
- Keep the unit bet uniform for every bet.
- Stop after 2 winning bets
- Keep a stop loss
Stv,chennai said ...
12-May-2017
Gavin,
Handicapping in its strict sense is science.I have differentiated that with 'broader sense'
The discourses about 'punting' are mostly in the nature of advises.People share their experiences.And their experiences and advises based on them vary.As such punting cannot be called a science.
The Doc said ...
11-May-2017
Good jockey, Good trainer, good odds .. simple
Gavin said ...
11-May-2017
@ STV
What you have propagated in your original post is directly opposite to what I have learnt by reading and experience.
In the first point you say handicapping is a science but then you go on to say that handicapping in a broader sense includes the scrutiny of trainers, intentions, jockeys, changes in them, odds etc. How is this science? Is there a formula to calculate the effect of each of these factors? If not, how do you call it science?
In the second point you say punting is an art. Punting means betting or placing your bet. Now this is in fact a science. There are different systems to decide how much to bet such as for example the martingale system of betting. There are formulas for money management also which tell you how much money you should put on the next bet depending upon your financial position.
Bura mat manna but I think some punters will definitely lose their way by getting misled by your post.
Stv,chennai said ...
10-May-2017
Vishnu G,
The Return of Godzilla is a movie of 80's.
I hope to participate in PTR if the format is to my liking !
Vishnu G said ...
10-May-2017
'The Return of Godzilla' STV,chennai guess it is a new film title
I hope your return will see your tips renewed on HT coming this Sat Bangalore
Saddleup said ...
09-May-2017
@ STV Chennai,
thank you,
Please come out soon whenever betting invites you in bangalore season.....
Stv,chennai said ...
09-May-2017
SADDLEUP,
I am waiting for 'The Return of Godzilla'
hope to see my friend soon here
Stv,chennai said ...
08-May-2017
saddleup,
ha ha true in a way,hope our friend GODZILLA enters HT now.I also miss him very much.
Raghavan said ...
08-May-2017
OK. SFP. Your points noted. Let us in this thread stick to the topic under discussion.
Regards.
Saddleup said ...
08-May-2017
@ STV Chennai,
You filled the long and wide gap of Godzilla in HT!
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
08-May-2017
Raghavan I never spared him specially for bringing in the armed forces .
Please see my mail in the drug column of 25 and 26 april where i have in fact blasted him on armed forces role.
Yet you dragged in old issues of his boasting in that very column.Pleae check once again..
If some one talks big about his winning ,Let him feel the ego why worry?
Yet One thing i will say you have maintained your dignity and your language.
In fact others should learn from you and try and maintain what is written on top of Horse talk.
Regards
Svkraju said ...
08-May-2017
@ RAGAVAN JI
ALL OUR HTRIANS KNOW WHAT YOU ARE. YOU ARE ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED PERSON
IN OUR HT FORUM. FORGET ALL THESE BARKINGS. CONCENTRATE ON COMING BNG SUMMER.
ALL THE BEST.
Raghavan said ...
08-May-2017
@Stop fooling punter,
You feel that in the thread 'drug abuse' I have unnecessarily raked up the old issues. This feeling you could have as well conveyed in that (drug abuse) thread itself. Why waited for such a long interval and highlighted the so called side tracking of the issue from my side in a totally different thread?
If you can equate me with old-woman because I side tracked an issue in that 'drug-abuse' thread, then I can also say the same thing to you also. You have also not cared to convey your thoughts in the 'drug abuse' thread, but preferred to remind me about that in this thread.
I welcome objections. But if such comments cross Lakshman Rekha, then I decide to talk back.
One thing SFP. I can justify posting those 'old issues' in any site any number of times. And, if that is not sufficient, I can now open a new topic also on the subject. Chanakya tried to brow beat me to silence, went too far, and got what he asked for. Normally, I prefer to ignore the bad or dirty comments about me and instead prefer "return to sender" response.
I agree that when we commit our views in this site, we should be ready to answer the naysayers. But, I only say those objections should be plain and direct. No need to mince words. At the same time, there was absolutely no necessity on your part to suffix your objections with comparisons like old nagging village woman.
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
07-May-2017
Dear Raghavan we all took him to tssk but it should have ended there but when he wrote another article on drugging sadly you just carried on the old subject.why.do you see what happened he reacted and the 3to 4 negative elements than took over.
They stooped to on low on this site..
My point is please stick to the topic and not dig out history of old topics and just keep nagging like an old village woman.
Any way it is upto ADMIN to weed out such letters of hatred.
We want racing subjects as STV has done
Stv,chennai said ...
07-May-2017
The topic was posted by me to seek an answer to the plight of the punter by way of devoting a lot of time in racing activity.I pointed out that racing as such can be divided into two broad categories.I suggested some ways to make them easier than our approach now.
There were responses from old and new members.It was but natural that some old friends here expressed to me the reasons for not being seen here much.While i felt that their grievances were very real,like Raghavan,I also advised them to ignore whatever is not in good taste or up to basic standards,but continue to participate.That said,this is a matter of individual judgement and discretion and we cannot expect others to heed to our request.
Raghavan is an active participant in H.T and his zeal and enthusiasm here are almost unmatched.It is my earnest request to him to use the same in bringing in refinement in H.T.in whatever aspects there is ground for doing so.
Raghavan said ...
07-May-2017
@Anuj, STV Chennai and others who share similar views,
The dividing line between humor and sarcasm is rather thin.
Anyway, even if there are some objectionable postings in this site, I do not see why the concerned person should simply abandon this site. He could as well refuse to either address to the concerned person & totally ignore the concerned person's writings.
I do not mean that healthy interaction means just being yes man to all the tall claims made in this site by men with elephantine ego.
To quote my personal example, there were some doubtful profit claims for which I demanded a clear cut reply from the concerned person. Collected both bouquets and brickbats from the horsetalk members for my perseverance & rigid stand. Chaltha hai. But, cannot understand what is meant by the comments like horsetalk site losing its appeal, charm etc.
Well, I agree, that about 4-5 years ago there were more jovial, colorful and no non sense persons contributing in this site but not seen in recent days. That is common for any media/newspaper/or public site. People who have vacated may have done so because of age related problems, or might have settled at a non-racing city or settled abroad. But, those who are still in race betting should find time 5-10 minutes at least in a week.
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
07-May-2017
Doc I fully agree with you are lucky to get yours printed here.
My letter without naming any one was blacked out in BNG summer picks column,it echoed the same sentiment
ADmin has to put their foot down on personal attack letters,other wise there is no use writing here.
Stv,chennai said ...
07-May-2017
Dear ANUJ,
Yes,you are right,something is lacking here,let us hope that it will change.
Felt happy to see you here and wish you success in the coming season.
Dear SVKRAJU,,
I welcome your suggestion that old friends should get to gether for friendly discussions here.Nothing could be more heartening.
Svkraju said ...
07-May-2017
Dear friends
.
FAVOURITE NEVER FAVOUR PUNTER
@RAMIYER
THANKS FOR REMEMBERING ME. OUR OLD FRIENDS MAY GET BACK TO HT FOR A FRIENDLY DISCUSSINS IN THE COMING BNG SUMMER SEASON.
The Doc said ...
07-May-2017
@ STV Chennai
You are right sir, what a time that was..
There were good topics to discuss, difference of opinion was there and sometimes personal attacks were there too but line of decency was seldom crossed.
Now a days HT is forum for mudslinging and oneupmanship. Lot of negative and critical posts crossing the line of decency are allowed by the admins these days. Some preveleged ones are given free hand but many of the writers posts are shown dust beans. This has driven many away from the forum. I am one of them.
Hope this post sees the light.
Stv,chennai said ...
07-May-2017
Thank you so much Ramiyer.
I never miss to make a note of your points in the discussions and selections posted on HT.
Thank you once again.
Ramiyer said ...
07-May-2017
Nice to see STV and S.v.v.k Raju back in ht.
Stv,chennai said ...
06-May-2017
Doc,
Thanks.What a time we were all having on H.T!
I remember everyone without exception.Hope we will resume all that now.Ever since PTR took a new Avatar[what with bonus points,gifts and re entries ,I lost some interest on H.T.
Decided to overlook all that now and have great time with friends like you and others.
Thanks for remembering me.
The Doc said ...
06-May-2017
@ STV chennali
Good to see you write something after a long time....
Whata punchline at the end..
Cant agree more !!
Stv,chennai said ...
06-May-2017
Vishnu G
Thanks for the kind words.I shall no doubt write whenever i feel there is something worthwhile writing about.
Sun
Thanks for the introduction.No doubt 'old participant'but not exactly 'Grand Old Man of IR HT'
Now that the season is about to commence,hoping to see your valuable inputs and analysis more often.
Sun said ...
06-May-2017
@Vishnu G,
Oh my God what a statement "you are new to the forum"Sir he is the Grand Old Man of IR HT.
Very useful write up but I thought Handicapping is more mathematics and when we bring in other factors it is art of picking winner when calculations normally throw up more than one choice.
Vishnu G said ...
06-May-2017
'DO NOT INVITE THE BET ..LET THE BET INVITE YOU.''
very wise words even i was always in the belief of this principle since long.
People normally run behind a horse to bet In fact the horse should give you the feeling it will win for you
STV,chennai I guess you are new to this forum I hope you write more to enlighten us
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