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Why Not We Have The Last Horse Pool ?

By Mad Max | 06-Jul-2017
By Ikram Khan
Courtesy: Bangalore Mirror 6th July 2017.
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The first week after GST came into play, the Bangalore Turf Club did pretty well. No significant drop in tote collections. But the poor punters lost out big. Dividends paid out at the tote were much below what was offered by the many illegal bookmakers operating inside and outside the BTC premises. End result: it was the illegal bookies who gained most. This will only result in more illegal bookies surfacing and slowly eating into the big Bangalore Tote Pie in the weeks ahead.

It is understandable that with 28 percent GST on betting, the race clubs will find it hard to curb the illegal menace. They now need to think out of the box and evolve ideas to keep their trusted investors with them, rather than going only by mathematical calculations. On the suggestion of one wise head among the nine big heads, they began the 'the third horse' pool which many knowledgeable consider a joke. Fourth horse pool may well follow and why not the last horse pool? Don't be surprised if this is also introduced. The moment a couple of punters buys a few tickets for fun, the nine wise men and the administrative head will tell you that it is a big success.

Most tote punters did not mind losing out marginally, but now with the new tax structure, the difference is big and it will only get bigger. The tote at this centre was so strong that BTC happily shunted out the bookies. Now the bookies are back. They have already started to cut into the pie and with the men and machinery at their command they in time to come will gobble it all up.

All the other premier centres, in their bid to soften the GST blow, have reached out to sponsors, promoters and even bookmakers convincing them that they need to now pay increased stall fees. The sponsors also have been told that they too need to dig deep into their pockets to get the desired mileage. But BTC bosses will have nothing of it. This is one club which has not cultivated big brand sponsors. This is one club which has no marketing or sport promotion team. And this is the one and only club in India which has shunted the bookmakers out. Yet, they manage to show a healthy balance sheet. May be that's because they have some good financial brains. No, they simply dont have a Jaitley in their ranks. It is the king tote which has helped win many a battle.

What was really surprising from the Bengaluru and Mysuru point of view was that though they were aware that they would be high big by GST, they did precious little to look at new avenues to generate money. They simply went about hoping that a couple of representations made to the members of the GST governing Council would help attain the desired results. This did not happen, and with the ball back in the court they really don't know how to play a different stroke.

It really appears a bad scene and it will get worse, the moment cost cutting measures come into play. That is when the horse owner will start to think on the big investments he has made at this centres. And before he looks out in search of greener pastures BTC and MRC need to play it smart and stop the horse from bolting out of the stable door.

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15 Replies

Reacher said ...

08-Jul-2017
We should have tote pools like HongKong Club. There you have Quinella combination of 1-2, 2-1. 2-3 and 3-2 which pay more than other tote odds. Two weeks back I saw someone collecting a six figure for bet of 10 dollars in and a four figure in Trinella! Here people cry foul play if such dividends are given.

Mad Max said ...

07-Jul-2017
@ Tarun

Nowadays no one give correct odds.
Whatever odds anyone furnishes are just for the 'sake of odds'
There is no meaning at all in present day odds.
Look at last Sunday first five races and its odds. Hazoron log jo Odds Board ko follow karthe hain mar gaye. So dont teach such lessons to anyone now.

If any horse comes in your calculations (whatsoever method) follow that horse provided the odds is lucrative enough. Still there is no guarantee that horse will win, or finish in place money; but remember, you will be a winner at least 4 times out of 10 runs, and your horse will be in place money at least 6 times out of 10 runs.

Rrajesh said ...

07-Jul-2017
great idea
seriously will make racing really interesting.

scope to lose more money (last line..pun intended)

Tarun said ...

07-Jul-2017

Punters need to see odds either for win or place and then bet. If it is too low for them skip the bet and look for other options.

Red Cheiftan said ...

07-Jul-2017

Mad Max I really don't see any substance in your post. Instead of asking BTC to start a pool like 4th horse pool forplace your are asking to start a last horse pool. It takes nothing to make your horse come last remember. And what happenes if a jockey just stops riding, horse get's stuck at gates. jockey's fall off. Then you say illegal bookies operate freely at BTC. If you were so bothered catch them and throw them to the police which are seen at at BTC. Why you want to just write for the sake of writing. Regarding pool collections and dividends remember many connections from other betting centres play at BTC for odds and hence the collections were always on the high side. As of now GST is not going ro affect racing in any ways. Finally please let us know why BTC has deducted 26% as GST for win.

Raghavan said ...

07-Jul-2017
@anindya,

Favorites lose 65%. So, if you eat all 8 favorites in a day you are assured of 5 payouts and loser of 3 bets. On a lucky day you may get 6 payouts and loser of 2 bets.

You say your friend is on winning spree! Glad. Convey my greetings.

After all the sweet talk as above, here comes my usual dissent note.

Do not believe your friend, your son, your father if they say they are in profit because of this or that approach. The system is heavily against the punters and there is not any system that guarantees a win for punter, that too in long run.

Try that trick yourself. With a decent start balance. Say 1,50,000. Kolkata season starts 12th. Test your theory that you say worked for your friend and so should work for you too!

You will know some 'truth'.

And, 1,50,000 is not a small amount. Your betting should be only if you are satisfed about the approach being viable. Not with the idea of proving Raghavan wrong. Raghavan cheerfully accepts all the brickbats whenever you win and I am proved wrong.

Mad Max said ...

06-Jul-2017
@ Dr.Bashaar
Not only the horse pass the winning post, but also the jockey should "weigh in" (after the race) the correct weight he "weighed out" (before the race) to the satisfaction of the stewards. Slight difference in weight may be allowed, any serious weight difference will be taken by the club as serious offence, and the horse will be disqualified. Even the jockey failed to 'weigh in" for any reasons, then also the horse will be disqualified.

Weighed out :
Each horse in a race has to carry a certain amount of weight. To make sure that it does so, all jockeys must weigh out before a race to make sure they and their kit, whip, helmet, shoes and saddle are the right weight. If a jockey is lighter than the weight the horse has to carry, the difference will be made up by thin lead weights in a special saddle cloth. Once the jockey has weighed out, he hands over the saddle to the trainer or his assistant to saddle up the horse.

Weighed In:
After the race the jockey must weigh in with all his kit, whip, helmet, shoes and saddle to confirm that the horse carried the right weight.

Anindya said ...

06-Jul-2017
My suggestion to win everyday now in race course in big is to eat all the favorite rather than playing them for win.Profit granted no one can make you lose. my friend Sankar Chatterjee after this 500 & 1000 debacle he started laying favorite & he is happy. i had a discussion with him he said he had gain a lot by laying or eating favorite rather than playing it . By his word he is in huge+ in doing so.

Anindya said ...

06-Jul-2017
After a long time i visited race course in kolkata on sunday & i was excited to be around there for i won big that day but i noticed that what ever the amount is sown in the tote got decreased by a large amount.Example in the second race when i played 2 FINE BARRISTOR win place shp just after the race the win came down from 200+ to 150+ & also the place amount but the shp amount remain the same.I am having a habit of seeing the dividend showing in the tv screen so that i can calculate my amount.But to my sock the dividend sown just before the announcement it was less in win place where shp remain same.I have some friends with me at that time so in the next race i told them to watch-out on the dividend on 7 PINYADA. The same thing happen the amount changed from 426win to 376win & place as same. I am having a suspicion that again a mother computer remains open till the dividend is declared and some one from the club official is taking out the money according to there liking on the said result.Be it a win pl or shp even forcast & tanala. Its my view any comments on it.

Cannavaro said ...

06-Jul-2017
Next playable option is Fourth Horse Pool!!!! And why not?!

Dr.bashaar said ...

06-Jul-2017
Dear Mr.New Guy,
Another aspect how club gets to win if flukes win.. This Mr.Madmax only had explained in this site sometimes back. Imagine a situation if an on money horse is running and majority of the punters have backed that particular horse in tote. If out of 10000 tickets on win 9000 tkts are there on the favorite horse ( this is very much possible ) what should be the dividend on that horse after deducting club commission + GST..roughly say 30% as of now -roughly little less than 8 ( for a tenner )... Club cannot give less than what you have invested on a winning tkt. Hence the club will have to forego their profit and still give back the 10 what a punter has invested. Obviously this way club will be losing a chance of making a profit? Isnt it? In this way club will be more happy if favorite dont win.

Mr.Manish,
Your query as to last horse ..if one or more horses get stuck in the gate? The particular horse which has crossed the winning post after all other horses have crossed, will become eligible for the last place. Obvioulsy horses which breakdown and are unable to cross the winning post dont qualify for this. Also if say 2 horses get stuck in the gate... if they come out and if the jockey is interested in completing the distance , whichever of these 2 finishes behind the other will qualify. If the jockey couldnt get a start, and decides not to run the race.. wont qualify. The word last just means who has crossed the winning post after all other horses have crossed- gets the eligibility. I am fully aware of this- as long back I had observed in Mumbai people used to do 2 unofficial ways of betting-
Popular one was called Mundi ( I have not seen this in any other centers )- It is between say you and me- the odds are equal- I quote a horse / you quote your horse. If my horse finishes ahead of your horse I will win the bet ( the amount pooled between the 2 is equal- I put 1K you Put 1 K ) - but the mundi horse shud be on board ( means one among the 1st 4 placed horses ) If both horses finish off board then the bet stands cancelled. Normally on money horses wouldnt qualify for such bets. If a clear 2nd favorite is there in a race ( other than on money horse ) and if I choose the 2nd favorite I will give chance for you to choose 2 out of the remaining horses ( sometimes 3 also )to you to neutralize my superioroty.
The second was the last placed horse ( which would be played in a small field race ) when punters who are not interested in serious bets in that race, play such side bets to keep themselves occupied just for the heck of it.
Dr.Bashaar

Mad Max said ...

06-Jul-2017
@ New Guy

One aspect is what Manish explained. When a fluke wins and the dividend paid is high, the miniscule number of winners get high dividends. Majority of punters lose their hard earned money. At the same time BTC (BTC in the sense all the officials, committee members, chairman, stewards, high calibre staff, etc who all have access to inside information one way or another) can encash the situation. Secondly when the dividend paid is high to the winners, TDS @ 30% is deducted on entire amount, and BTC is making Rs. 3000 each from the punters. BTC is the deductor, the punters are Deductee. No way the punter get the refund, but after a particular period, the DEDUCTOR can apply for the refund and they get it at the expense of punters. Thirdly, when the officials know the result of a race in advance they can LAY the Fancied horses and amass money.

Manish said ...

06-Jul-2017
@ Maxy
Last horse pool is a complicated pool. What will happen if more than one horse get stuck in the gates? More than 1 gets lame and don't cross the winning post. Disqualified horse position, jockey gets dislodged etc.

Manish said ...

06-Jul-2017
@ new guy,

Mab max wants to say that if longer odds horse wins, punter will not feel the punch of gst. For eg. If a horse paid 900 in pre gst, it would pay 560 post gst. A punter would be equally happy.

So, they will keep coming back

New Guy said ...

06-Jul-2017
Dear Mad Max

I am still waiting for ur explanation regarding how the long odds winning helps clubs in terms of GST. Please share your opinion. Its a sincere request