28 Replies
Kolramsri said ...
26-Aug-2017
Dear friends .... do not believe in this Karma and Kuruma business.Then why R K Paramhamsa died of dreadful Throat Cancer.Saints aim in life , to preach by voice only.Why God ( if there is one) took his voice and made him to die at the age of 50. This site meant only for race related issues, to be borne in mind by writers.
Ayyarnet said ...
25-Aug-2017
Shri.Raghavan Ji
In our life there exists a reason behind every thing. Some times we will come to the reason but many times only our creator only knows the reason. No smoke without fire
Scientists have found that for every action there will be a Reaction equal in magnitude but opposite in direction . None of us can escape. It may take little time but the said reaction will certainly takes place in due course of time.
Innocent punter may not have Physical Health Problem and mentally they will have some impact slight damage will always be there.
Book Maker do not take leave. Because their investment is huge compared to Punters. They have to bring huge amount of cash compared to punters.They can cover up their loss because they have sufficient funds to hold them any time.
If 4 or 5 Punters jointly raise enough capital and form a company for betting then we can make the bookies also down. Cash is the only supporter for them.
Brain wise our Punters are much smarter than the Bookie but handicapped.
Regards
Ayyarnet
Raghavan said ...
24-Aug-2017
@Ayyarnet,
You saw a bookie in difficulty. Right. Let that bookie come out of that hell.
To be frank, I would have added one more line. But, that will be censored. You are welcome to make a guess of what could be that line.
Every man has his own health problems. We should not link his problems with his profession. You may firmly believe that the health problem of this bookie is because of the inbuilt curse in his profession. That logic is far fetched. And can be accepted ONLY if all the 150+ or 200+ bookies are suffering like that.
Anyway for argument sake, let us agree to your logic. Now comes the other question. In this world, a punter irrespective of his financial status is the most innocent person. Do you say that no punter has any serious health problem?
@Mythbuster,
Certain things that are spoken here is something I do not agree. But, let us not side track the issue to atheist, agnostic and theist. I speak most harshly about the bookies only because of their taking bets at 10% tax. Otherwise, they are as humans as anybody else. And they no doubt pocket your cash whenever the horse you picked loses. But, at the same time for all your winning bets will are they not paying?
Mythbuster said ...
24-Aug-2017
As I wrote before, the same logic will apply to jobs and business and soon you will not have anything to do without inviting trouble.
Ylrao said ...
24-Aug-2017
Myth burster
Your question "who is making races"
Obvious not punters,Govenment is first beneficiary Second race clubs ,how much money they are spending for mantaitenance,salaries as well their pleasure trips and subcised good food at member canteens .
So from where the money is coming "all punters money only" which has been collected as tax.They don't have any source of money generating source.
Of course few bookies also make money due to their fraudulent methods,which will be invested by them in money generating avenues.
Ayyarnet said ...
24-Aug-2017
Mythbuster
Just ask a Bookie how he fares in his personal life dont go by out ward appearance. Recently I went to Apollo Hospital to visit a friend of mine. I saw a Bookie with a close relative for disease related to Blood. Every month entire blood must be drained and refilled with new blood. Unable to imagine.
ayyarnet
Mythbuster said ...
24-Aug-2017
Raghavan
If we go by the preaching of the author here even bookies can not win because they are taking somebody else's money.
Kumar_blore said ...
24-Aug-2017
@raghavan
I agree bookies are better placed than punters, because it is their business.i have seen many punters who lost in crores started their book stalls realising they can cover their losses,after some time they closed their stalls due to losses.so I feel every bookie can't be in gains,only an intelligent bookie will be doing well.same thing applies to punter,every punter can't win only intelligent punters can be in better positions.i won't claim huge amounts,but certainly if we start fine tuning our calculations we can be in a better position.atleast I have noticed that from last couple of years,my loss percentage has certainly dropped and am doing quite well.
Thanks
Raghavan said ...
24-Aug-2017
@Mythbuster,
There are a section among horsetalk members who try to convince you that bookies also will have some bad days like punters. And, in this finance war between bookies & punters, there are some smart punters who have looted the bookies.
Nothing like that. It is bookies who always have upper hand in 90% of the race days and say once in fortnight or a month they will allow punters to go home with a small surplus.
These bookies with that 10% taxation looted the punters, cheated the Government and club and were proudly sitting on huge cash pile. On Nov 8, their pride balloon started bleeding from head to toe! They were forced to burn their ill gotten wealth. So punters loss only. And bookies gain only. But, bookies were administered the sledge hammer blow by the Government!
ONE SIMPLE QUESTION. AS A PUNTER YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED 100s of other punters who remained absent. Some for one day, some for one week, month etc. Reason : NO CASH!! Have you ever heard of bookie closing his stalls for want of cash?
And, believe me. Even on days where punters for a change are seeing some cash in their hand, it actually requires AK47s from you to extract the cash from bookies. I remember. April 1 or 2. 7 races on that day. One after another, it was the favorites that were winning with a vengeance. Bookies (Mumbai) saw the trend. Just closed the shop. Three or four races, punters were left in lurch. Can you site any example of punters stopping the betting after 3 or 4 bets failed?
Mythbuster said ...
24-Aug-2017
If this is true then who is making in races? If owners, trainers, jockeys and punters all are losing who is winning?
With this kind of reasoning, nobody can ever be successful in a job or business also. Because if you take a job then you are depriving somebody else who could have got the same job. Same with business.
Stv,chennai said ...
24-Aug-2017
In conclusion I like to admit that I found nothing basically wrong in the well meant advise of Ayyarnet to reduce gambling levels.I only sought to point out that ,racing being what it is,it is not a practical suggestion.Elaborating the point,I like to point out that the goals,targets and approaches of race goers differ.
As Raghavan says,majority of punters are all losers only.Most of us have lost in crores,if one would care to grade up the money to current financial terms.
So the question arises what do we do under the circumstances.I am thinking of inviting suggestions from race goers to this question.I will post my suggestion first.
These I will do by starting a separate thread.I hope members of H.T. will actively participate.
Regards to All.
Ayyarnet said ...
24-Aug-2017
STV - Chennai
MIND PLAYS A MAJOR ROLE.
If you can condition it a bit and erase the episodes already written in the sub conscious mind you can change your life. Without trying you are taking a decision.
With all your experience I am quite you are capable of spotting a winner on your own without any assistance from any one. Still then what is the total gain in your 3-4 decades experience. If you are bent upon going on your own please go ahead.
If you want to gain and acquire success pls give me your email ID I will give you a small book which can change your life and a pave a way for successful pattern.
If you do not want to take a remedy and correct your self you are free absolutely free to do so.
Best Regards
ayyarnet@hotmail.com
Raghavan said ...
23-Aug-2017
@ YL Rao,
As per Government order all Cigarette packs should carry a warning message.
The Government should also pass one more order. At all race clubs and outside counters, there should be a warning displayed prominently that "betting is injurious to your finance".
You said what everyone was hesitant to tell. That you are a loser. There are some people who make some silly statements whenever x, y or z say they are losers. Mocking them and tauntig them. And, try to get some mileage by stating that they are winners.
You said lost some crores. Let me quantify that as 2 or 3 cr. That applies to all. Your case may be 2 or 3 cr. Others may be 1/2 or 1/4th of that; at best 1/10th of that. Some Yudhishtiras even double or treble than that. But one thing is common to all horse punters. That is all are losers. Some minuscule 100 out of 1 lakh may really question my statement. But, the rest are sailing in same boat. And, I say that we may not come across any such 'minuscule' punters even if we start joint search operation with a magnifying glass.
And "till we die" statement also will hold good for all bettors. At BNG however, a good number of punters have stopped betting at tote for win or place. For obvious reasons. I am not telling that they have stopped betting. I only said they stopped betting at btc tote.
Stv,chennai said ...
23-Aug-2017
Ayyarnet,
At the outset I like to clear a confusion here in your reply.
"I do not bet heavy but slowly lose in races over a period of time,say 3-4 decades"
I wish to make it clear that it is not a statement of fact from my side,but a question posed to you.
From a perusal of of your reply,it is clear to me that you are in a stage of transition-from a punter or race goer to 'nothing considered wrong attaches to me' personality.I wish you well in your transformation.
There are also other philosophical statements from you;since this is not a forum for debating such subjects, I do not like to add my thoughts on them.
You are also fond of quoting from scriptures and epics.Making an exception from what I stated in the above paragraph I would cite only one instance:-
AT the battlefront in Mahabharatha,Arjuna bemoans "how can I train my arrows at my Gurus and near and dear ones?Lord Krishna answers
to the effect that this is battle front,do your duty"
This would emphasise the point at race course, there is no room for humanitarian considerations.You either fight with your resources or do not participate;there is no such thing as mild fight [minimum bettings for fun in your words ]and full indulgence to ones capacity.
thank you
Ylrao said ...
23-Aug-2017
Dear Ayyernet
Let me be honest,this racing is addiction,your preachings is bit unable to digest,believe me it is boring ,even it will be much ,.... for youngsters (as I lost few crores in racing I can tell you very confidently, we never stop ,till we die)
Ayyarnet said ...
23-Aug-2017
My dear STV :
You have come to the correct point. I am very much pleased indeed
why at all you take part in racing? Right question
I do not bet heavy but slowly lose in races over a period of time,say 3-4 decades !!!
STV did you ever made an attempt to think about your loss why you are losing for the past 3-4 decades !!!!! Answer is within you
When you can not make any worthwhile winning amount for 3-4 decades why at all you take part in racing? Try to find an answer from your own experience.
My dear friend the reason is that it is not winning and going home happily but it is a continuous process that next day again you will go to races either at the center or other center race it will continue to infinity that is in mathematical terms endless. There is no guarantee you will win next time ! As you say it has continued continuously for 3-4 decades ! You never made an attempt to think why you are losing ? What is the use of going to Races etc.,
I honestly confess that I was also like your good self only but only for a short time. I took guidance. Whereas you did not ! May be due to your ignorance NOT FAULT CERTAINLY. You were not knowing the truth !
Take Races easily play for formality purpose and enjoy as a sport. Suppose you have won a few races and you have money what will you do ? Honestly tell us. To be frank you will accumulate it for next race day only !! Instead as of now you have little idea that Racing money may not remain with you before it vanishes from you use it for joy spend little for relaxing. Dont be a slave for Races but make the Races as your slave !
I suggest an excellent tonic for you to pave a winning streak not only in Races but in every field.. Buy a copy of Sundar Khand in any book shop. Read it many times in your spare time with absolute sincerity and faith. The book describes how Hanuman wins all obstacles and emerge victorious while searching for Sita ji and finally achieves precious gift of embracing Lord Rama himself. If you read daily as a routine for few months your mind will be cleared and you will also win all obstacles and wherever you go Red Carpet will be spread for your good self. As you read with sincerity sometimes tears will come down with emotion from your eyes but continue with sustained effort and then finally after one two months please tell us what was your condition before and the current position.
Best wishes to you.
ayyarnet
Stv,chennai said ...
23-Aug-2017
Ayyarnet,
You are a known contributor to H.T. From your postings,it is also clear that you are a long standing racegoer.
I find that most of your postings emphasise morality,you go to the extent of saying that what you win is another man's loss,hence do not aim for it or rejoice over it.Then why at all you take part in racing?What is is nature of wholly spiritual betting that you seem to advocate?If I do not bet heavy but slowly lose in races over a period of time,say 3-4 decades,am I a responsible gambler?
Awaiting your reply
Ayyarnet said ...
22-Aug-2017
Chancepedance
Respected Sir:
If you ask them you will come to know their position is worse than ours. Only outward they are showing they are all top people and punters are untouchables. Just see the balance sheet of any Race Club. As they sow they reap ! I remember the English poem by Tennyson - I wept for not having a pair of shoes till I come to know there are persons even without legs. Oh God Thank you for the mercy I am fortunate indeed !
Our loss could be a paltry sum only and recoverable also. But their loss beyond imaginable level recoverable only by Sponsorship from industries ! They have to bribe so many politicians for their very survival and existence !
As they sow they reap - Indeed true
Brest regards
ayyarnet
Chancepedance said ...
22-Aug-2017
I wonder all these insiders such as the chairman, stewards, owners, trainers and bookies don't get cursed and become beggars as suggested by an extremely knowledgeable person here.Almost all the writers here are certain that these connections are cheating common punter then why are they still prospering?
Do the curse laws apply to punters only?? Or the punters only curse punters??
I wonder...
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
22-Aug-2017
Majority of punters come 15 mins before race time buy a book and expect to win.
Some of us here spend min. of 3to 4 hours to find winner or place bets.
My method
Check earlier run in class and wt.
Check mock races and videos of earlier runs.
Check work outs [no doubt one odds does not give it].
Check paddock looks and owners .Well dressed means horse has a chance.
Avoid odds on favs [the % of win is low so are returns]
let me see some try this simple method and than see the results.the problem time factor with most.
Mr negatives can skip this advice.
The most important avoid tipsters in the race course,they are there to mislead you.
Cannavaro said ...
22-Aug-2017
Gambling makes a punter like a patient continuously getting inflicted with various uncurable diseases(losses)but still wants to live(bet).Death(giving up racing) can only bring peace to the punter soul.Amen!!
Ayyarnet said ...
22-Aug-2017
Shri.Vishnu Ji:
All of us are giving at the counter with Free will only and not out of compulsion. When your Horse wins you feel happy and look at the other side of the coin - the loser feels bad that he has been taken into ride and he lost money and his heart felt sorrow will certainly wipe out your own win money.
sometimes they curse with unprintable words.Because of this curse only many jockeys suffering. You can test out of your own experience. Whether after winning how long you are able to keep your earning? You can test and find the result yourself. This happen in spite of the fact you have not robbed any one or taken money out of the way and played intelligently out of your own calculation etc., .
With best regards
ayyarnet
Ayyarnet said ...
22-Aug-2017
Respected Dr. Bashaar sir:
Book Maker never lose. May be it is possible in one or two races where favorite obliges and many Punters might not not have played other horses for a chance.
But then they recover their loss immediately in other races in the same center or other center by communicating with Bookmakers of other centers. They all work together and they have unity. They also work hand in hand with trainers.
If you think carefully and analyse your own experience even if you win and earn little money when the earned money does not remain with you then what is the use of taxing our brain and taking tension etc., That is why I am telling take things easily and play small amount for a formality only and enjoy Races as a Sport rather than a center for making money.
With best regards
ayyarnet
Ayyarnet said ...
22-Aug-2017
Respected Dr.Bashaar sir :
Book Makers never lose. May be it is possible in one or two races where favorite obliges and punter might not have played other horses for a chance. But they recover soon next race or even next day also. They work hand in hand with trainers. Sir our Mighty MAM has been tricked by Hyderabad Book Makers by compromising with his own Jockey. We are nothing. Too much heavy betting is not advisable.
Even if we earn when the money does not remain with us what is the use ?
Dr.bashaar said ...
22-Aug-2017
Dear Mr.Ayyarnet,
I liked the article in Toto.. Wish I had seen this about 30- 35 yrs back!!! ( I could have saved so much in my life ).
But I am sorry to differ from you in 1 point- you have mentioned that Race club or Book Maker will not give 1 penny also from their pocket. I fully agree that race club will never give a penny to the punters from their pocket ( except may be as an added attraction sometimes they add some fixed amounts to some tote pools on interesting racing days just to attract more punters to the tote betting ).
Book Makers will not give 1 penny also... no I dont agree with this statement. If I am right a clever Bookmaker is one who balances his book properly by doing what is called percentage book making- in which case he adjusts his bets in a such a way that the collection on other horses ( which are going to lose ) will balance the payment to be done on the winning horse- theoretically it is 100 % in which case any of the horses ( on which betting has come ) winning - the Bookmaker wouldnt be losing. ( BookMakers will stand to win big -only if an outsider ( horse which has not been backed ) wins- in which case -the entire kitty would go to them- this is exactly what all the Bookmakers wait for.
Now practically what happens - in the present day scenario if you see - it is just not possible for any bookmaker to make a clear 100% book. ( If you see the odds- say for eg. 2nd race of hyderabad on 20th - the fav was available at 8/10, Junaeu and optimus commander were available at 8/1 each. even if you take 12% tax on all these 3 horses still it can only come to about 85 - 90 % Book ) - so if any of the 3 horses winning- bookmaker is a loser. ( He will have to pay the remaining 10 % from his pocket.) There are many racing days in which not even 1 outsider wins - on these days bookmakers can never win ( They are also losers - unless they also fancy some horse- save betting on them and adjust their book to cover the previous races losses... what they fancy wins or loses is a different issue). In other words unless they also gamble like we punters-they are also at the risk of losing their money. How many bookmakers have closed down their business ( because of their losses) ?- ( for every 1 bookmaker losing there may be 1000 punters who have become paupers- thats a different issue).
But I feel it is not fair to say that bookmakers dont pay a penny from their pockets.
Otherwise I fully agree with all your points- an eye opener for a punter who is losing a lot and can do a serious self introspection and upgrade himself to a punter who can minimise his losses and still enjoy the game.
Dr.Bashaar
Smart-still-poor-punter said ...
22-Aug-2017
I asked a few people who know bad racing and good English about the meaning of the phrase "Responsible Gambling", no one is able to educate me!
Here tips are given by the person to keep your environment neat and clean (Union Environment Minister, listen please!), why do you know? "Money will come to you automatically."
Coming to a forum in racing and suggesting ways to earn money from other sources than racing reminds me of something else....ahahahahah!!!
Vishnu G said ...
22-Aug-2017
Mr ayyarnet
How can you call the money i won as curse money I did not pull it off any body hands he gave it to the tote of his free will and I took a chance at the tote of my hard earned money
Masalaanna said ...
22-Aug-2017
Q.Are you reluctant to spend for a joy or pleasure of eating or buying new clothes for you or family members?
A.No. I always buy new things for family and friends.
But I don't spend much on myself.
I am a foodie. So I do spend a lot on eating along with family and friends.
Other questions can be definitely related to my addiction to gambling. But there is a friend and guru like you (Ayyarnet). He has helped me overcome my addiction.
He has taught me how to survive in this game of luck.
His wise words for me and to all addicted punters.
" gamble only when you can afford to lose "
"lose means the money you think is saved extra after your monthly expenditure and you don't mind spending on or giving up "
Well, people who smoke, drink or do something etc which is injurious to health can be cut short and saved money for punting.
The money saved can be from 10rs to anything xyz.
a 10rs exacta, forecast, jackpot, etc can be punched. And if more you can bet on single or multiple pool legs.
Whatever you do, don't gamble on the regular basis. You can read the card in your spare time and still not have to gamble. You can read the card after a month without seeing the result and predict to check your accuracy.
Virtual gambling to check your accuracy of the method.
"Your own money is recycled less commission to the Club and taxes to the Govt. So what you get by luck is other peoples money only your own punter colleagues money only. Some of us would have cursed also after losing !! So the money you get may not remain with you for a long time. It will take its wings and fly away soon. "
This the exact thing explained by my GURU.
I am a happy person, who doesn't bet more than 10k in a month. I can afford 20k to lose. If I can't my profits from past 1 year after getting trained by my guru. I have earned 1,49,350 of the total.
But the loss I had in my life in punting is more than worth my half of life earnings.
And he said only one thing to me.
"What you lost is gone. If you run behind to cover up the loss, you are engulfed in the vicious circle of torture and grief of addiction of gambling.
Even you win using my formula for coming years, you can never cover up your loss.
There is a chance of losing, but then you can switch back to virtual mode to analyse where you are going wrong. And when confident, gamble only what you can afford to lose."
Ayyarnet are you 55+?
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