@ Raj
You have said partly correct....."are depressed,having headache, inflammation,upset stomach,not in mood,going through periods,pain some where in body,uneasy equipments causing discomfort,Angry on race day,Not happy being whipped,dirty track conditions, etc etc etc..."

I am adding the Rider for the above which you missed or wanted to forget. Firstly, if a horse has any Veterinary problems, the Vet Doctors wont allow the horses to run, in most cases they withdraw the horses before the start. Secondly, it happens sometime such problem horses they allow to run because the trainers owners wanted to lay the horse, that is cheating, it happens in India. Thirdly, all these things happens when the horse is short-priced or hot on-money favourite and the beneficiary winner horses are owned by CONNECTED OWNERS or TRAINERS. Lastly, such horses wins next time at 5/1 or more probably when we ignore.

If it is not cheating, what else it can be named ?

@ Sun, Mad Max,All.

Good , healthy debate on handicapping, notwithstanding the occassional heated exchanges between them. It would be really good if it can also be done before some selected races of selected centres, as the case may be.

Though, handicapping is my weakest link in the understanding of a race, I would say that after this debate, it has now probably moved a few notches.
I also felt that Olympic fields would easily prevail over Shaman, but post race analysis and after this debate, I would say that Shaman is superior to Olympic Field at level weights and any distance.

Thanks.

Read Temerity rating as 91 not 61.
Thanks.

Iam not judging anyone's ipinion here.What all are not seeing is we are dealing with innocent animals.Who knows how many of them are depressed,having headache, inflammation,upset stomach,not in mood,going through periods,pain some where in body,uneasy euipments causing discomfort,Angry on race day,Not happy being whipped,dirty track conditions, etc etc etc.
All that talk of handicapping,wt,trainer,jockey,rating,owners,timing,previous performance etc etc etc
Are all meaningless if horse is experiencing the problems I have listed above.
How many of us have really considered the problems horses are facing,?
This dirty sports has no winner in long run and has survived bcz of unpredictable factors and unholy Nexus ,and greedy people all around.
We are all fools here hoping to achieve impossible with odds heavily loaded against punters. We are after mirage.
The most peaceful time in my life and saved millions was when I had left racing for 3 years when I was in USA.
One thing is sure. When we go after recovery mode we suffer most.
Just few thoughts after the season.

Raj.

@ Mad Max,
You are correct.We are not quarrelling but exchanging views on different approaches of assessing the chances of runners.
You have cited Mrs Patmore versus Temerity but how about Mrs Patmore versus Hall of Framer a horse rated 49 beating a horse rated 88 at level weights.Here again Mrs Patmore was rated 49 after in 20-46 Class.Hall of Framer coming from Hyderabad was at 88 albeit at a BR of 66 and to compare if we add 46*0.7 to 49 it comes near 88 and the rating of 88 of Hyderabad has to factored to the rating of Mumbai.So this again proves my point.As far as Temerity is concerned it might have had some problem in the race as the Rating of 61 earned from 60-86 Class even on normalization is better than Mrs Patmore's.
@Santoshkumar VK What Mad Max has opined I supported because my responses were in the spitit of exchange of views and in the heat of argument both might have inadvertently used the language which may have given you the impression that we are quarrelling. Thanks for your concern to both of us.

@ Indian Turf Record,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

When Temerity lost that race to Pesi's Doosara Mrs.Patmore, then also some other guys opined Mrs.Patmore was the best horse in the field. That is the way Horse Talk people react. This is happening every time.

@ Santoshkumar Vk
If you dont have your own opinion on that particular race, that is ok, but dont interfere between us. We are not quarreling. We are putting forward our views and opinions. If No other guys want to air their views let it be so. If you dont like our debate on the issue, please do not read. When the Admin is able to handle such issues, please desist from stopping us.

@ Mad Max/Sun and others

It is only in recent times, after installation of digital timers, that we have the timing of each horse which ran in a race. The verdict (inter se distances) are the difference in time of two horses converted into distance.

In old days, only the winner's time was clocked and the verdict was as measured by the Judge from the photograph when horse was at the winning post. The verdict included only first four horses. Before that, verdict was restricted to only first three horses.

Hence it is impossible to answer the question which covers "entire Indian history". Also, unless all records are computerized, it will be impossible to answer questions of this nature.

However, I do remember a two horse race many years ago (days when tape starts were the norm) at Mumbai when one of the horses was left at the start. The other horse cantered to win and was pulled up just after passing winning post. The other horse, at last deciding to race, was just coming into straight when winner was being led-in.

As far as I am concerned, it does not matter how far behind the winner the last horse has finished.

You may like to know that Temerity, after finishing last in Indian 1000 Guineas last year, won Indian Oaks on her next start. The website shows that Temerity finished about 30 lengths behind the winner whereas Shaman finished 70 lengths behind the winner. There is obviously an error here because Temerity finished about 9.5 seconds behind the winner while Shaman finished about 12 seconds behind the winner.

@ Mad Max,
In the heat of argument you are misquoting.Did you take a Season Off for Bangalore Summer?From Bangalore Summer BTC has revised Handicap Classes and what I posted is correct.
Secondly I am not good at reeling out statistics in support of my line of Analysis but the question that remains unanswered is how OF Ratings has gone up from 45 to 61(I think)and what is the basis?
I never said that RNO 95 is superior race.I only said Bangalore Derby Bottom Ratings is 61 and RNO 95 BR is 45 so Rating earmed RNO 95 has to be extrapolated to BR 91.How I arrive at 61 was made clear in my earlier post.
Thanks.

Sun & M.M.,
Let us have Constructive criticism on this forum,Racing is undergoing lots of changes along with the times.
Trying to prove who is correct or smarter serves no purpose.
Views put forth by Some one reinforces the approach taken by the person's strikerate obtained by the same.

Lets make peace with ourselves & have meaningful contributions on HT.
Regards

@ Mad Max
Earlier Olympia Fields beaten Implicit Trust (trained by Attaollahi) by 3 lengths and SSA knows the strength of OF moreover both trainers are friends, every time they run their horses in a race, they go with the Doosara for better odds, it is possible Shaman was prepared with this race in view to loot the racegoers and Olympia Fields was kept back without a fight.

I accept what u have said this is the main reason why OF has not won, That why it has ridden widely

Kesava

@ Mad Max,
Malnutrioned OR Wellnutrioned I am not bothered.While I am talking about Ratings, you are talking about Timings.I want you to take any 2 horses which ran 2/3 races at Different Distances and Carrying different Weights and taking their first race as Reference and Normalise their Timings to the same Weight,Distance and Penetrometer reading and show me that there is a consistency ie Horse A time for 1200 mtrs is extrapolated to say 1400 Mtrs and the time calculated is same or very near to the Time it clocked in the Next race.
By keeping on harping about that 70L race you are advocating a limit on the improvement a horse can make OR blissfully ignoring other factors like injury during the race OR not ridden to full potential and a host of other reasons.
If you want to put a limit on your learning please do so but when occasion comes I will again show you how Handicapper rates horses after a Terms Race.In this race itself look at how Pinyada will be rated OR my earlier example of Mekong Delta and get back.
Let me caution all HTians of Castlebridge's rating of 94.According to me it is overrated and may dump punters.
Coming to Class and Grade no doubt the point you made is correct.Can you explain why a Winner of Grade 3 race Castlebridge's Rating goes up by 3 points from 91 to 94 after its 2000G's Win while it is retained at 94 even after Derby Win.
I want to make my point loud and clear unless you bring Ratings to a common datum you cannot draw inference on the relative advantage of a horse though Timing Comparison may indicate tremendous advantage to a horse in a Terms Race.
After Revised Ratings for Shaman and Placed horses are published on Mysore Race club web site do come back to justify your timing theory.
Thanks.

@ Sun

You said..."For a while if we put aside its placings in CTS and Derby it just had a Win in Maidens race which can be taken as 15-35 Class while Shaman won in 45-65 Class"

(1) You are wrong man. 15-35 or 45-65 rated races are not run either in Bangalore or Mysore. In these Clubs the ratings are 0-25 (V), 20-45 (IV) and 40-65 (III), and 60 & Above (II), 80 & above (I).

(2) Shaman and Olympia Fields both started their career in Bangalore Winter but they were able shed their maiden status in the Summer debut only. Important thing is in those races Shaman was penalized 7 Kg (34 to 48) and Olympia Fields 5.5 Kg (34 to 45) as per original rating system of Rating 31 for Fillies, 34 for Colts and Geldings (ignoring periodical changes in ratings during the last few years by RWITC and BTC). Because some other clubs still following original rating system I follow the original 31/34 rating system in my analysis to make it uniform. Horses do not know what these clubs manipulation of rating systems, they only know to RUN or the horses are trained to run only.

(3) As per their Maiden wins, Official handicapper found Shaman better by 1.5 kgs hence rated 3 points above Olympia Fields. But that superiority Shaman could not continue in the subsequent races, that is the reason Olympia Fields gone up in rating to 69 and Shaman rated 64 prior to the Heritage Trophy. Then where Shaman faulted? Indeed that was in the Summer Derby. Prior to the Derby Shaman (64) was able to retain the same superiority of 3 points (in rating) over Olympia Fields (61). However former lost that superiority in the Derby.

(4) Your assessment is wrong that R.95 (Class-II) is a better race than R.97 Colts Trial Stakes race. Race No.97 (a Grade-1 race) is not an inferior class race than Class-II. If you want to check the class of such races, you have to check the rating of the horses participated in those races.

(5) In Colts Trial Stakes Olympia Fields (Rated 45) ran with Chief of Command (Rated 70), Big Orange (69), Apache Sunrise (60), Castle Bridge (58), Tutankhamun (58), Capodicapi (56), Moon Dancer (52), Perfect Star (47), Hartnell (47), etc. The highest rated was 70 Chief of Command in CTC race. Whereas SHAMAN in Race No.95 (Rated 48) a Class-II race, where the highest rated animals were Everybreakingwave 63, Star Cracker 60, Mystic Music 60, Gabino 60. From this anyone can easily find COLTS TRIAL STAKES COMPANY WAS TOUGH than the Class-II Race No.95. Official handicapper is not a fool to give 8 Kg Penalty to Olympia Fields after Race No.97. That is the reason most of all horses ran with Olympia Fields in Race No.97 whether finished in front or back of Olympia Fields gone up in rating officially. If anyone say the runners in Race No.97 were not tough, who will believe.

See the present rating of R.No.97 horses:

Chief of Command (Rated 70 to 70), Big Orange (69 to 68), Apache Sunrise (60 to 79), Castle Bridge (58 to 94), Tutankhamun (58 to 76), Capodicapi (56 to 56), Moon Dancer (52 to 65), Perfect Star (47 to 68), Hartnell (47 to 71), etc.

(6) Now look at the Present rating of horses ran with Shaman in R.95:
Everybreakingwave 63 to 76, Star Cracker 60 to 58, Mystic Music 60 to 69, Gabino 60 to 54, Thomas More 55 to 55, Sagrada 51 to 47.

ANY BLIND MAN WILL SAY R.NO. 95 (CLASS-II) WAS INFERIOR THAN R.NO.97 (GRADE-1 COLTS TRIAL STAKES). AND AS PER THAT RUN SHAMAN WAS AT LEAST 1 SECOND SLOWER THAN OLYMPIA FIELDS.


R.95 Shaman won Class-II ran with following o

@ Sun
You have a malnutritioned theory and I dont agree with you, yes I will 'never agree' with your way of calculations. I will always go with the OFFICIAL HANDICAPPER OF THE RACE CLUBS and his rating system, be it they are at DELHI or BANGALORE or MUMBAI I follow them strictly.

Finally I am asking you two questions, for you 70 lengths may not be a concern, then tell you how many such cases reported in India earlier? How many SUCH horses reversed their form in subsequent races? Can you name a single horse in Indian History?. AT LEAST I REQUEST INDIAN TURF RECORD (SIR PLEASE) enlighten us !

My second question is, what do you think about a Class-II race or a GRADE-1 race LIKE BANGALORE COLTS TRIAL STAKES. Which one is the highest class race, Class-2 or Grade-1 races?. You can use your wisdom here.

To Sun and all other Speed Rating Kings of Horse Talk, please work out and find out the projected timings of SHAMAN and OLYMPIA FIELDS after they raced in R.95 and R.97 SAME DAY at Bangalore.

Both Shaman and Olympia Fields ran on same day in Race No. 95 and 97 and former won, later finished 2nd. THEY CARRIED 53 KGS AND 56 KGS RESPECTIVELY. THEIR FINISHING TIMINGS 1800M = 113.94 AND 1600M = 96.38 ON THAT DAY. PENETROMETER READING WAS 3.3 CM. I REQUEST ALL SPEEDRATING EXPERTS OF HORSE TALK, KINDLY COME FORWARD AND WORK OUT YOUR TIMINGS OF BOTH THESE HORSES AND TELL US WHICH HORSE WAS BETTER ON THAT DAY ? NOTE: DO NOT FORGET OFFICIAL HANDICAPPER PENALIZED BOTH HORSES SAME DAY 8 KGS EACH, BUT REMEMBER SHAMAN WAS A WINNER OF CLASS-2 RACE, AND OLYMPIA FIELDS FINISHED ONLY THIRD IN GR-1 RACE, DESPITE IT WAS PENALISED 8 KG.

Before coming up with different explanations just have a look at how the horse was ridden.
Just 2 feeble strokes with the whip throughout the race.
The intent was clear as daylight

@ Dear MAD MAX


Yes your all three reasons are the factors made SHAMAN as a winner.

Dear All,
For those interested in Ratings based Analysis,I want to clear the air once and for all.Continuing with Olympia Fields
Ratings
After its Win in RNO 3 on 13Th May a race for Maidens with no ratings for any Placed horses it was Rated 45.For Maiden I take a Rating of 30 which may on the higher side.So at BR 18 its Rating is 45.
Then RNO 97 Colts Trial Race reference horse is Tutankhamun Rated 58 ran carrying 56 Kg so BR is 46 ie 58-12.Now this is the Apparent BR and OLympia Fields can be rated 45+(46-18)*0.7 64.6 but put at 61.IF we do the same exercise for Derby it comes to 66.2.The fact is first Rating of 45 is higher My Rating was 41.6 instead of 45.
Conclusion the revision of Ratings in Terms Races is based on Anchor Horse rating and if it is a Level Weights Terms race the Highest Rated horse is the reference horse and we need to look at Apparent Bottom Rating of that horse.
For a while if we put aside its placings in CTS and Derby it just had a Win in Maidens race which can be taken as 15-35 Class while Shaman won in 45-65 Class.
Thanks.

@ Mad Max,
With due to respects to you,I once again want to emphasise that Ratings assigned to a horse after Placing in a Terms Race are based on the Ratings of other horses.If we go by your theory at Level Weights no lower rating horse can Win a Derby.We have Jeremiah a Winner of 20-46 Class in the previous outing winning Deccan Derby.
I am fully conversant with the manner in which the Weights are allotted in a Terms Race for 3 year Old only in their second season.Off hand I cannot recall but we have Lower Rated horses winning Million Race(Terms Race) even after adjusting for Weight differentials.The present horse Olympia Fileds itself is an example of how Ratings jump for Placing in Terms Races its rating has gone up from 45 to 61 to 69.Unless you note down the Apparent Bottom Rating of the Race (It is meaning less to talk of a Bottom Rating for a Terms Race) and normalise to the current Terms Race the comparision will not be meaningful.
Revised Ratings for 29th October for Pune races are not yet published.It will be interesting to see the Revised Rating of Mekong Delta which ran at 89 Rating.If Handicapper feels it was not a flash in the pan it will be rated 100 and at this Rating can it Win in 80+ Class depends on how true to its Rating Phoenix Tiger ran.
If it is Terms Race with level weights but for Gender Allowance Handicapper has no hesitation to up the Ratings astronomically.
As I told in the beginning I have not analysed before race so I cannot say whether my choice could have been different but the objective of my post is in a Terms Race looking at Ratings without normalizing to a datum results in wrong conclusions.OF was not enjoying too much advantage.
Thanks.

Shaman had all the chances to win against Olympia Fields, just that it ran very poorly in the Derby whee OF came 3rd, we cant discard Shaman completely.

Shaman before running the derby was made to run a class 2 race 1800 mts as a fav and won easing up, after that Shaman had a injury hence it was not worked also and ridden by C Alford, it was just made to run and through out the race Shaman struggled. Shaman by the stables was a derby contender but the injury costed him.

Shaman had all the chances to win against Olympia Fields, just that it ran very poorly in the Derby whee OF came 3rd, we cant discard Shaman completely.

Shaman before running the derby was made to run a class 2 race 1800 mts as a fav and won easing up, after that Shaman had a injury hence it was not worked also and ridden by C Alford, it was just made to run and through out the race Shaman struggled. Shaman by the stables was a derby contender but the injury costed him.

@ Sun
I have not expected such a 'blot' analysis post race which encourages tipsters like Tiger.

Be Safe beaten Quasar by over 5 lengths in the Indian Derby. In the Invitation Quasar reversed the verdict and we all seen how the 'world reacted'. After that Quasar went on to win so many races, however, no racegoers in the field believe Quasar is a better horse than Be Safe... why?

Do you every heard a horse lost by over 70 lengths in previous race reversed the verdict in its subsequent race? Can you name a horse ever won in India like that?

Do you think respected tipsters like Dharmesh are fools to tip Olympia Fields are as Day's Best?

O.K. Shaman proved us wrong? May be it would have ran a big race in the Bangalore Derby race had it taken a level start ! But we dont know. You are coming out with 'figures' every time, your figures should be based on past performance. Even the official handicapper give ratings as per the horses performance. Here in this race Shaman was simply carried 3 kg extra not because it was a better horse. It carried 7 kgs penalty because it won twice. Other horses that won only one race got 4 kg penalty. So any handicapping student will say a horse rated 64 carries 58.5 kg has no chance against Olympia fields which rated 69 and carries 55.5 kg, i.e. 3 kg less.

Then how Shaman won the race. This puzzle we have to decipher:

1. Possibility is there Shaman's run in the Derby was an eyewash. Had it taken a level start and finished ahead of OF or 3-4 lengths behind OF, we would have considered him also as a contender.

2. Second possibility is Olympia Fields lost form suddenly. Otherwise it was ridden injudiciously to lose the race. The rider was knowing the result as he was showing the negative signal at the gate before the race. This is a common signal of all jockeys nowadays at all centers.

3. Or the friendly trainers used their wisdom to loot the punters, pulling favourites and try the Doosaras..?

Does it mean the race was run on merit? Why not people like you dont want to consider other aspects like 'give and take' policy?

@ Tiger
You said Shaman ran with Classic horses. You are wrong.
Instead Olympia Fields ran twice with Classic horses and both time finished third. Whereas Shaman ran with Classic horses only once,and finished 70 lengths behind. How can you spread such misinformation here?

@ All,

Post Race Analysis serves as a PRE-RACE analysis for the horse in contention's future races. Hence, as important and critical as pre-race analysis. So, if someone cares to do it for others,it should be encouraged rather than being critical about it.
Thanks Tiger.

In hindsight everyone appears wise.

Nothing new or to be proud off.

I have been in Punting for the last 21 years and have heard many like Tiger.

@Dear All,
Further to my post Shaman's Rating after this Win I estimate it to be 80
Thanks.

@ Dear All
I may be coming late on this post but I wanted to make a point or two on the Terms Races,Weights etc.
Mad Max is a senior tipster but his view that Weights don't matter in Terms Races is totally misplaced.On the other hand Weights don't matter in Handicap Races.Many times people comment that so and so horse will run away from the field because its Handicap is low like 50Kg.What you have to remember is when a horse runs at 62.5Kg in say 40-65 Handicap Race OR at 50KG in 60-85 Class the competition it faces is as same in both the cases.A horse comes to a particular Rating and consequently a Handicap based on its past performances and Handicapper ensures that it is allotted that Weight corresponding to its Power/Caliber.So Weights are so to say normalised vis a vis its Caliber.
On the other hand the Weights allotted to runners in a Terms Race are based on Terms of the race and a higher calibre horse may be allotted favourable Weight irrespective of its Rating which as explained above we can view as the power of a horse with horses carrying weights fully in line with the Ratings they earned over a period of time.
Coming to the current Terms Race Shaman at 58.5Kg rated 64 and Olympia Fields at 55.5Kg rated 69 creates a mirage that OF is a clear winner.What is important is to see the genesis of Ratings.Shaman's Rating of 64 comes from a Handicap Race of 45-65 while OF's Rating of 69 is from Bangalore Derby Race and to map to a common datum we have to see the Anchor horse in Derby which is Castlebridge rated 73 carried 56KG and this translates to a BR of 73-12 equal to 61.Now Shaman's Rating has to be brought to BR 61 and the empirical factor I use is 0.7 is Shaman Rating is 64 plus 16*0.7 ie 75 and adjusting for Weight difference it is 75-8=69.So Olympia Fields was not at too favourable Terms in the Race.
I could not analyse the race before due to time constraint but on seeing so many theories being advocated to justify or otherwise of Shaman's Win,I thought I will clear the air on some misconceptions.
Thanks.

Dear Tiger
I am happy that you have started to bring the post analysis topic which will eventually expose the exact reasons for the
failure if analysed properly.In case of many crimes/deaths postmortem is carried out to bring about the exact cause of death.I welcome fellow members who were at the course to bring about their views so that many will benefit .

Dear Tiger.
You have done nothing wrong. As RRajesh said we can be careful in thefuture.I feel post race analyisis is always better than pre race analysis.Here most of the irians give pre race selections.But have we ever thought what went wrong with our choices.I this post there are so many post race analusis why Olympic failed because the jockey body language and he kept the horse wide and the trainer was wearing soms particular colours.These observations also comes under post race.
I sincerely believe Shamaan is a superior horse .It has finished 70 plus length behind the winner in bangalore derby.As madmax said while selecting Olympic he had said weight is not a factor.You please go shead when u find reasons to explain after the race. Thanks

APOLOGIES FOR HURTING ANY TIPSTERS, THE ANALYSIS WAS NOT DONE WITH THE INTENT OF PROVING WRONG OR CRITICISE ANYONE. I HIGHLY RESPECT THEM ALL. THE ONLY REASON OF POSTING POST RACE ANALYSIS WAS TO PUT MY UNDERSTANDING OF OLYMPIA FIELDS LOSS, AS THE SAME WAS SHOCKING FOR ME AS WELL.


TIGER".........................................................................

guys TIGER is just making a good observations so that we punters dont make the mistake again
appreciate him

What's' the use in the postmortem after the race is over? It is easy to give reasons for the loss of O.F. One thing is sure, instructions given to the jockey might have been the reason for its loss. You are aware that Shaman had finished 11-1/2 lengths behind Olympia Fields in the Bangalore Derby. I also feel that Olympia Field was ridden in check intentionally by John and lost; consequently draining the pockets of the punters. I presume that even the bookies may not be aware of this. That's why Place bets for Pinyada and Shaman were reasonably high.

Mr Tiger,

The smart bloke that you think you are with analysis after the race is futile and useless.
Don't waste your time and energy and at the same time people's time posting such things after a race.

Do so before a race so that u can be called a true ANALYST by people who are actually following you

Sincerely
Premal

Tiger, what you're writing is not analysis but making a co-incidental comparison which maybe True but just an eyewash to defend these culprits.
The Truth is the horse was prevented from running on Merit. He jumped well, sat second briefly, then inexplicably dropped back and subsequently travelled 10 wide for no reason. Had this been done in Bangalore, Johns licence was gone.
Suraj also stopped Athena the easiest way and Haedi's Folly was not interested or a piece of crap, that's the Truth and these shenanigans only go on in Mysore where the Authorities don't care. The punter is always the Victim.
However, kudos for the observation and hope you preempt same before races.

Tigerji

After the race it is easy to hijack a race and get away with all the credits. That is what you have done now.

Following proven tipsters of Horse Talk tipped Olympia Fields as their best choice or day's best. You are insulting them with your post race comments. What will happen if they stay away from Horse Talk because of your false assessment of the race? Are you ready to run Horse Talk from hereon ?

Dharmesh
BKD
Stop Fooling Punter
Abhay Pune
Mad Max
Racebro
Vamps Venom
Arrogate
Sai
Jaikumar
Jerry Willdo
Shahryear Hastings
Abrar
Against Odds
TRS
JWC

My simple question is do you think you are a better tipster than the listed ones above.... If you think so, please post your selections for Mysore races today.

@ Tiger
Your comments I would say stupidity at its best !
Rationalizing O.F. as a false favourite is because of your ignorance. Your comments entirely in bad taste insulting those tipsters tipped it as Day's Best. How easily you ignored trainers' mischief in such races. Shaman was better yesterday no doubt. At the same time you have to admit Shaman's DERBY RUN was an eye wash. Racing fraternity analyze horses on the strength of their past performance and Shaman was a total ZERO in the Bangalore Derby.

Your comments "OLYMPIA FIELD NEVER RAN WITH ANY CLASSIC ANIMAL IN 1400M DISTANCE" IS ENTIRELY IN BAD SPIRIT. You have to prove Where SHAMAN stands vis-a-vis other Classic animals. Castanea (Rating 54) is not a classic animal. Even his conqueror Mauritania (Rating 50) is not a classic prospect. Star Cracker is a 4 year old not a classic horse. One and only classic horse with which Shaman ran was Manifold was in the Derby and you have seen the result there? Whereas Olympia Fields (Rating 45) was 3rd to Castlebridge Race No. 97 (Rating 94) in the 1600m Trials-Grade-1 race (just 3-1/4 lengths behind). If you want to check and compare the timing of both Olympia Fields and Shaman, see Race No.95 where SHAMAN (Rating 48) beaten Star Cracker. Compare both timings and see OF is better by 1 second. Later OF finished third in the Derby several lengths ahead of Shaman.

My opinions are different from others. Earlier Olympia Fields beaten Implicit Trust (trained by Attaollahi) by 3 lengths and SSA knows the strength of OF moreover both trainers are friends, every time they run their horses in a race, they go with the Doosara for better odds, it is possible Shaman was prepared with this race in view to loot the racegoers and Olympia Fields was kept back without a fight.

Typical after race thought.

The only thing which did it in are the odds.Please check this trainers record on such rates. Very poor.

THE JOCKEY was clearly advised to travel wide all along!

I fail to understand which next race for this horse

Usually John travels inside, but in this case he kept the horse wide outside,
Popping this quo since yesterday, as y he kept the horse wide???

Dear Mr.Tiger,
Very easy to give these analysis after the race. wish you had given this tip before the race- lot of big punters would have been able to save their money. Like punters,Bookmakers are also still crying ( in spite of on money horse losing ) as they had pay out huge in place, for both on Shaman and pinyada ( which they never anticipated ).
Dr.Bashaar

Hi Tiger.
Excellent Analysis n Write Up.
But What Iz The Use ? Punters Lost Very V V V Heavily.
Well It's All In The Game.
Thanks n Take Care.