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Back to listsA Good Handicapping System Can Make A Punter Millionaire
By Chanakya | 09-Apr-2018
A good handicapping system can make a punter a millionaire occasionally...
A punter wants to make money from racing and uses various methods – changing odds, past form/performance, class, track-work, etc. – singly or in a combination. Most of the punters fail because they do not have a correctly developed handicapping system. After years of hard work, I have developed a system which regularly –not everyday, gives a positive ROI and occasionally very high returns which keeps me afloat in this game...
As an example, on 8/4/18 I posted following tips for Mumbai:
Race 1 – 1 ( S. Eddie)- odds 7/1.
Race 2- 5 place (R. One) – 5/2.
Race 3- 2 ? question mark – not playable.
Race 4- 1 (G.Bourne)- 11/10.
Race5 - 1( Southpaw) – Even.
Race 6 – 1 / 2 any one of the two. 1 was 8/1 while 2 was 2/1 – obviously 2 became choice.
A roll of only Rs. 3000 on selected runners of races 1,2, 4, 5, 6 will give a return of more than Rs. 10,40,000 !!
Therefore , a good handicapping system is pre-requisite to win from racing....
198 Replies
Giant Fly said ...
30-Apr-2018
All of the below long conversations and replies only to find out that Mr Chanakya has made a small or simple mistake in calculating...so much for years of study and knowledge/ experience...
Raghavan said ...
29-Apr-2018
@ CRK,
Sorry. My response to your post is coming rather late.
You have promoted me to the role of an umpire. That is not the case. I question everyone who boasts of their huge winnings. I do not think that race betting could be so rewarding. If it were so, then every race punter could be owner of at least 1 flat measuring one thousand sq ft in Mumbai.
Fortunately, we have very few persons in HT who claim profit. That too in millions. And, that makes my task easier. If every 2nd person in HT was talking about such a million gains on a regular basis, I would just read the post and forget it altogether.
I never insist on any body to follow my line of thought, subscribe to my ideas. Every one has his own brain and can really identify whether anyone's post is bundle of lies or real. So, my objections to his posting will not make any difference in the public opinion.
Now regarding numerology/astrology. People say 1OO things. Some really believe that numerology/astrology can help us to locate the winners in horse race. I have my own reservations on that logic. If numerology/astrology can really throw up winners, then every numerologist could be billionaires.
Again I do not question this theory. It may be true. Only thing, I do not believe that. I do not ask any HT member to subscribe to my logic.
Handicapping: This is one method where a punter can identify winners. Out of 1OO selections, one may correctly call 3O to 33 winners. No body, not even trainers and owners are gifted with aptitude to score 45 winners. This is what I am repeatedly stating. Chanakya says with a good handicapping system one can achieve the strike rate of 8O% to 9O%. Which is a blatant lie.
Chanakya is afraid. Afraid of me. Extremely sad that he chose to react to my posts with personal abuses. I have returned all such abuses unaccepted to sender. He wants to see my writings totally stopped. It was only me who was questioning the veracity of his statement of gains. And his pet admirers were coming to his defence. It is only in this thread that his admirers have remained silent. Whereas several others have started questioning his statement. He even said that I am writing in the name of Srinivas. I am sure, there will be no more posting of million gain in this or other site.
Chanakya said of his gain in respect of Malavika. Claimed O.7O odds/profit for that horse. This is a terrible indiscretion. Forced to meekly accept his mistake.
Sorry. My response to your post is coming rather late.
You have promoted me to the role of an umpire. That is not the case. I question everyone who boasts of their huge winnings. I do not think that race betting could be so rewarding. If it were so, then every race punter could be owner of at least 1 flat measuring one thousand sq ft in Mumbai.
Fortunately, we have very few persons in HT who claim profit. That too in millions. And, that makes my task easier. If every 2nd person in HT was talking about such a million gains on a regular basis, I would just read the post and forget it altogether.
I never insist on any body to follow my line of thought, subscribe to my ideas. Every one has his own brain and can really identify whether anyone's post is bundle of lies or real. So, my objections to his posting will not make any difference in the public opinion.
Now regarding numerology/astrology. People say 1OO things. Some really believe that numerology/astrology can help us to locate the winners in horse race. I have my own reservations on that logic. If numerology/astrology can really throw up winners, then every numerologist could be billionaires.
Again I do not question this theory. It may be true. Only thing, I do not believe that. I do not ask any HT member to subscribe to my logic.
Handicapping: This is one method where a punter can identify winners. Out of 1OO selections, one may correctly call 3O to 33 winners. No body, not even trainers and owners are gifted with aptitude to score 45 winners. This is what I am repeatedly stating. Chanakya says with a good handicapping system one can achieve the strike rate of 8O% to 9O%. Which is a blatant lie.
Chanakya is afraid. Afraid of me. Extremely sad that he chose to react to my posts with personal abuses. I have returned all such abuses unaccepted to sender. He wants to see my writings totally stopped. It was only me who was questioning the veracity of his statement of gains. And his pet admirers were coming to his defence. It is only in this thread that his admirers have remained silent. Whereas several others have started questioning his statement. He even said that I am writing in the name of Srinivas. I am sure, there will be no more posting of million gain in this or other site.
Chanakya said of his gain in respect of Malavika. Claimed O.7O odds/profit for that horse. This is a terrible indiscretion. Forced to meekly accept his mistake.
Sun said ...
28-Apr-2018
@Chanakya,
My opinion is if you use qualifiers on 2 or 3 whose Values are better than the field then our choice will be inclined towards horse whose odds will always be lower.Though I cannot quote off hand when we apply the parameter of Distance suitability as a qualifier we miss out horses which "up set win" when a normally 1200 horse wins a 1400 Mtr race.
Anyway I will try to use qualifiers with proper weightage.
Thanks
My opinion is if you use qualifiers on 2 or 3 whose Values are better than the field then our choice will be inclined towards horse whose odds will always be lower.Though I cannot quote off hand when we apply the parameter of Distance suitability as a qualifier we miss out horses which "up set win" when a normally 1200 horse wins a 1400 Mtr race.
Anyway I will try to use qualifiers with proper weightage.
Thanks
Raghavan said ...
28-Apr-2018
@ Kolramsri
I vaguely remember that. I think that 2O% is only in cases where a bookie has not displayed place odds for any horse. So, in a 8 horse race if he only writes win odds on all, and place odds if he writes on just 1 or 2 horses and double dash for place on remaining horses, you can not insist on 2O% place odds for any horse.
But that was also the time where racing was more colorful, more competetive etc at all centers. [exclude madras and ooty]. In any case the betting by most were in the range of 4O/- to 5OO/-. And this half tax bet was not there.
I vaguely remember that. I think that 2O% is only in cases where a bookie has not displayed place odds for any horse. So, in a 8 horse race if he only writes win odds on all, and place odds if he writes on just 1 or 2 horses and double dash for place on remaining horses, you can not insist on 2O% place odds for any horse.
But that was also the time where racing was more colorful, more competetive etc at all centers. [exclude madras and ooty]. In any case the betting by most were in the range of 4O/- to 5OO/-. And this half tax bet was not there.
Raghavan said ...
28-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
Your million gain by laying favorites! Do not go by the theory that if a lie is repeated 1OO times, people will start believing that.
I have demolished your million gain. Just tell everyone your betting amount, tax thereon, returns and nett gain. Your first bet should be 22OO. And next bet should be the receipts on that 22OO. So on. That will shut up me once more.
Your bluffs will not impress anyone. Do not presume that by shouting abuses at me your case will get stronger. All those abuses are returned to you unaccepted.
At present tell the HT members how you claimed profit on Malavika.
Do not repeat ad nauseam that you gave selections before the races. In this site or other site no one gives his selections after the races.
Your million gain by laying favorites! Do not go by the theory that if a lie is repeated 1OO times, people will start believing that.
I have demolished your million gain. Just tell everyone your betting amount, tax thereon, returns and nett gain. Your first bet should be 22OO. And next bet should be the receipts on that 22OO. So on. That will shut up me once more.
Your bluffs will not impress anyone. Do not presume that by shouting abuses at me your case will get stronger. All those abuses are returned to you unaccepted.
At present tell the HT members how you claimed profit on Malavika.
Do not repeat ad nauseam that you gave selections before the races. In this site or other site no one gives his selections after the races.
Stv,chennai said ...
28-Apr-2018
Dear All,
Whatever needs to be said on either side has been done sufficiently and clearly.
Let us close the discussions on this thread.
Only 2-3 weeks are left for start of the Summer Season.
Let us do our home work and start afresh and be successful.
This is my humble request.
With Best Wishes to One and All,
STV
chennai.
Whatever needs to be said on either side has been done sufficiently and clearly.
Let us close the discussions on this thread.
Only 2-3 weeks are left for start of the Summer Season.
Let us do our home work and start afresh and be successful.
This is my humble request.
With Best Wishes to One and All,
STV
chennai.
Stv,chennai said ...
28-Apr-2018
@KOLRAMSRI,
You are very correct,I also remember that.
You are very correct,I also remember that.
Manish said ...
28-Apr-2018
now chanakta says he never won a million.
archives are still there. he clearly said that he won one million and then financed his US trip with it.
Chanakya is most welcome to deny this also.
By the way his bookie is speical. He gives win odds on the races, when bookies were on strike. That instance also available in archives.
Kolramsri said ...
28-Apr-2018
I think in Madras Race Club many years back ( First Encl)an instructions to the book makers was painted in the wall.It says if the book maker left the place bet column blank,punter can very well demand 20% on the Win odds, and no compulsion to play win bet.Later the book makers started to draw 2 parallel lines in the place bet column to defeat the purpose.
Chanakya said ...
28-Apr-2018
@ Sun,
your 27/4. I know some parameters, e.g., intention etc. can not be quantified but can be used as 'qualifiers' to eliminate/ reduce the contenders. after a value( numerical) is assigned to the main contenders qualifiers must be used. For example last race no. 6 of head post - 1 and 2 both were equal in value by my system. 1 was at 8/1 ( K. Nazil) and 2 was at 2/1 ( P. Trevor) champion jockey. whom will you select? Obviously no. 2!
some questioned this logical decision... I hope you them..
therefore, after valuation use qualifier/(s)...
Chanakya said ...
28-Apr-2018
@ Kolramsri,
your 24/4. I have not refused to post my selections for Bangalore summer. I have declined to share my system for 'free' in a free forum...
@STV, your 25/4. you are the second person who has understood what i meant by the headpost... most of others are not as intelligent as you and Kolramsri are...
I have not claimed a million win on Invitation day at Bangalore, but close to 1,50,000 which was confirmed by one witness, who was part of a get togather organised by Dr. Nath the previous evening. It made Raghavan and his friens to shut up and run away...
Yes, I have claimed that million can be won and gave a proof by posting more than 10 winners and also losers in Dec 2015- Jan 2016...
the selections GIVEN BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN are still available in the archives of this forum...
I can understand the pique, frustration and incapability of perennial losers against few perennial winners...
your 24/4. I have not refused to post my selections for Bangalore summer. I have declined to share my system for 'free' in a free forum...
@STV, your 25/4. you are the second person who has understood what i meant by the headpost... most of others are not as intelligent as you and Kolramsri are...
I have not claimed a million win on Invitation day at Bangalore, but close to 1,50,000 which was confirmed by one witness, who was part of a get togather organised by Dr. Nath the previous evening. It made Raghavan and his friens to shut up and run away...
Yes, I have claimed that million can be won and gave a proof by posting more than 10 winners and also losers in Dec 2015- Jan 2016...
the selections GIVEN BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN are still available in the archives of this forum...
I can understand the pique, frustration and incapability of perennial losers against few perennial winners...
Raghavan said ...
28-Apr-2018
Chanakya accepting mistake! He is in such a terrible bind that accepting the mistake was the only escape route.
Thank God, Malavika finished 3rd.
He could have still got away if it had finished 2nd, would have claimed win bet also if it had won. Unfortunately it finished 3rd and Chanakya was tempted to claim place dividend. A Himalayan indiscretion.
During 8Os and 9Os, I have played each way bet and the bookie was paying place odds at 1/4th of win odds. But, that is only if one plays each way and not if one bets for place only. That too such concession was not admissible if the favorite was at odds-on or if it was terms races. But, whether it is a rule or only courtesy of the bookie, I do not know.
What I know is the bookies are allowing only the board odds to the punters. No punter can question that. Even on a horse quoted 15/1 for win, he can simply mark double dash for place odds. Bookies are not there to take dictates from punter regarding odds. He can even put 12/1 for a horse that is paying 85O at tote.
So, Chanakya was caught with his pants down. At least now, I hope people understand that his claims of imaginary bets, imaginary profits of millions etc are total bluffs. Chanakya is an ordinary punter. Like any one among us. He is no extra smart punter. He wins some, loses some. His win strike rate is around 1/3rd or less. All punters are losers only. If you search with magnifying glass, out of 75 thousand to lakh punters, you may come across 2OO punters who are in gain. But the rest are always losers in the long run.
I have admitted my loss. He has not admitted. That is all.
Thank God, Malavika finished 3rd.
He could have still got away if it had finished 2nd, would have claimed win bet also if it had won. Unfortunately it finished 3rd and Chanakya was tempted to claim place dividend. A Himalayan indiscretion.
During 8Os and 9Os, I have played each way bet and the bookie was paying place odds at 1/4th of win odds. But, that is only if one plays each way and not if one bets for place only. That too such concession was not admissible if the favorite was at odds-on or if it was terms races. But, whether it is a rule or only courtesy of the bookie, I do not know.
What I know is the bookies are allowing only the board odds to the punters. No punter can question that. Even on a horse quoted 15/1 for win, he can simply mark double dash for place odds. Bookies are not there to take dictates from punter regarding odds. He can even put 12/1 for a horse that is paying 85O at tote.
So, Chanakya was caught with his pants down. At least now, I hope people understand that his claims of imaginary bets, imaginary profits of millions etc are total bluffs. Chanakya is an ordinary punter. Like any one among us. He is no extra smart punter. He wins some, loses some. His win strike rate is around 1/3rd or less. All punters are losers only. If you search with magnifying glass, out of 75 thousand to lakh punters, you may come across 2OO punters who are in gain. But the rest are always losers in the long run.
I have admitted my loss. He has not admitted. That is all.
Sun said ...
27-Apr-2018
@Glasgow Prince,
Yes.I missed that part.The reference to RNO 245 and mention of Eternal Sunshine and Frivolous misled me.Thanks for your clarification.
Yes.I missed that part.The reference to RNO 245 and mention of Eternal Sunshine and Frivolous misled me.Thanks for your clarification.
Santoshkumar Vk said ...
27-Apr-2018
ITR,
This rule was very much in existence at BTC.
The rule states that if the favourite is above ON money,then the place odds for other runners must be given @ 1/4 th the odds offered on other horses for WIN provided it is backed as each way.
If a horse is at 20 to 1.If one plays a 200 rs bet as each way 100,then the bettor ends up getting 5 to 1 for place irrespective of the odds being offered by the bookie to other punters on their board for Place.
I have collected payments from bookies inspite of their refusal to give the right odds after complaining to the ring supervisor(Mr.Venugopal)a punter friendly gentleman.
Regards
This rule was very much in existence at BTC.
The rule states that if the favourite is above ON money,then the place odds for other runners must be given @ 1/4 th the odds offered on other horses for WIN provided it is backed as each way.
If a horse is at 20 to 1.If one plays a 200 rs bet as each way 100,then the bettor ends up getting 5 to 1 for place irrespective of the odds being offered by the bookie to other punters on their board for Place.
I have collected payments from bookies inspite of their refusal to give the right odds after complaining to the ring supervisor(Mr.Venugopal)a punter friendly gentleman.
Regards
Glasgow Prince said ...
27-Apr-2018
Sun,
Trainer Pesi Shroff was questioned about the running and riding of Daffodil as explained at the beginning of the relevant paragraph which you have probably missed. Hence he compared the performance of Daffodil vis a vis Eternal Sunshine.
Btw, The Doc has most probably stopped following this thread.
Trainer Pesi Shroff was questioned about the running and riding of Daffodil as explained at the beginning of the relevant paragraph which you have probably missed. Hence he compared the performance of Daffodil vis a vis Eternal Sunshine.
Btw, The Doc has most probably stopped following this thread.
Srinivas said ...
27-Apr-2018
@ITR
As far as I know, you can demand 1/4 for place, provided you play an equivalent amount for win.
Demanding 1/4 for place, without any betting for win, IMHO is another ploy employed by Chanakya to try and extricate himself from a self-created Web of blatant lies. As a matter of fact, he has not yet replied to my query as to how much tax he paid on his wagers, which would obviously expose him even more.
BTW, ITR, for my better understanding, can you please guide me if one's betting is, say, 1, does each way wager become 0.5 + 0.5, or should it be 1 + 1. Chanakya has considered a losing each way bet as 0.5 + 0.5, to further dilute his losses.
As far as I know, you can demand 1/4 for place, provided you play an equivalent amount for win.
Demanding 1/4 for place, without any betting for win, IMHO is another ploy employed by Chanakya to try and extricate himself from a self-created Web of blatant lies. As a matter of fact, he has not yet replied to my query as to how much tax he paid on his wagers, which would obviously expose him even more.
BTW, ITR, for my better understanding, can you please guide me if one's betting is, say, 1, does each way wager become 0.5 + 0.5, or should it be 1 + 1. Chanakya has considered a losing each way bet as 0.5 + 0.5, to further dilute his losses.
Indian_turf_record said ...
27-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
Chanakya accepting a mistake !
You may call it a mistake; I may let it pass as a 'howler' but there will be many others who may think differently.
You have not clarified about RWITC rule which lets you demand 1/4 the odds for place from a bookmaker. If the Rule exists and we all become aware of it, it benefits the punter community.
As mentioned in my post to STV,chennai, I am leaving station tomorrow and will not be able to follow HORSE TALK till at least mid-May. You have plenty of time to trace that Rule.
Chanakya accepting a mistake !
You may call it a mistake; I may let it pass as a 'howler' but there will be many others who may think differently.
You have not clarified about RWITC rule which lets you demand 1/4 the odds for place from a bookmaker. If the Rule exists and we all become aware of it, it benefits the punter community.
As mentioned in my post to STV,chennai, I am leaving station tomorrow and will not be able to follow HORSE TALK till at least mid-May. You have plenty of time to trace that Rule.
Sun said ...
27-Apr-2018
@ Glasgow Prince
In post below you mentioned RNO 245 and the immediate previous race ie RNO 108 for Eternal Sunshine did not run.In the previous 3 runs of Frivolous they did not meet.Can please clarify?Further in Race NO 245 Frivolus was receiving 2 Kg from Eternal Sunshine.Are you referring to some other 2 horses?
In post below you mentioned RNO 245 and the immediate previous race ie RNO 108 for Eternal Sunshine did not run.In the previous 3 runs of Frivolous they did not meet.Can please clarify?Further in Race NO 245 Frivolus was receiving 2 Kg from Eternal Sunshine.Are you referring to some other 2 horses?
Sun said ...
27-Apr-2018
@Chanakya Ji,
Thanks for your advice.Let me tell you that yourself and SK Sagar Ji have been my prime motivators to go deeper into Mathematical Analysis of races.In fact I forgot to mention this in my reply to ITR
I may be totally wrong but the Jockey Factor OR Trainer's intentions etc can come out in calculations but we need better Computational Methods rather than simple functions available in Excel.In a refined system we don't assign values for various factors but we just feed Raw Data of Results of Races and computer finalises the parameters like PNR Adj factor or effect of Weight on speed of horses at low handicap of 49 to 54 and 55&beyond etc etc.
This week end of last 2 days of season one should not test a system but I want to venture tipping 2 horses per race based on my revised system.I look forward to the results.
Thanks.
Thanks for your advice.Let me tell you that yourself and SK Sagar Ji have been my prime motivators to go deeper into Mathematical Analysis of races.In fact I forgot to mention this in my reply to ITR
I may be totally wrong but the Jockey Factor OR Trainer's intentions etc can come out in calculations but we need better Computational Methods rather than simple functions available in Excel.In a refined system we don't assign values for various factors but we just feed Raw Data of Results of Races and computer finalises the parameters like PNR Adj factor or effect of Weight on speed of horses at low handicap of 49 to 54 and 55&beyond etc etc.
This week end of last 2 days of season one should not test a system but I want to venture tipping 2 horses per race based on my revised system.I look forward to the results.
Thanks.
Chanakya said ...
26-Apr-2018
@ ITR,
My selctions on 22/4/18
there was a mistake in my calculations,,,
Malvika places 3rd. which was not a paying place and though place odds wer 7/10 it did not materialize in payout...
therefore, on 22/4 my gain was +4 -4 = 0 (nil)...
My selctions on 22/4/18
there was a mistake in my calculations,,,
Malvika places 3rd. which was not a paying place and though place odds wer 7/10 it did not materialize in payout...
therefore, on 22/4 my gain was +4 -4 = 0 (nil)...
Indian_turf_record said ...
26-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
Malavika finished third in a six horse race and yet the bookmaker paid you a 0.7 return ! Hard to believe !!
As a punter, everyone has a choice whether to bet or not. So you may not have backed Art of War but since it was in your selections, it counts as a loss for the purposes of the forum. People who run various contests may like to clarify.
Rules of racing as given in the website of RWITC, Ltd. do not say anything about "demanding" 1/4th the win odds for place. Of course, I may have missed it. Could you kindly quote the relevent rule ?
Malavika finished third in a six horse race and yet the bookmaker paid you a 0.7 return ! Hard to believe !!
As a punter, everyone has a choice whether to bet or not. So you may not have backed Art of War but since it was in your selections, it counts as a loss for the purposes of the forum. People who run various contests may like to clarify.
Rules of racing as given in the website of RWITC, Ltd. do not say anything about "demanding" 1/4th the win odds for place. Of course, I may have missed it. Could you kindly quote the relevent rule ?
Raghavan said ...
26-Apr-2018
Chanakya says Malavika paid 7Ops for place!
Malavika finished 3rd. No question of place payout. There were 7 runners in that race. Windcraft won on objection. Fine tune relegated to 2nd spot.
Dance emperor was withdrawn. So only six horses ran, and Malavika finished 3rd.
Which fool paid him dividends on Malavika?
Stv,chennai said ...
26-Apr-2018
@I.T.R,
Thanks for the confirmation.The dividend you have mentioned is admittedly at Bangalore.I vividly remember receiving about 4000\-at Chennai.However,this is not a big point and you need take the trouble to verify it,if possible,especially when you are planning to go to some place.
thanks.
Thanks for the confirmation.The dividend you have mentioned is admittedly at Bangalore.I vividly remember receiving about 4000\-at Chennai.However,this is not a big point and you need take the trouble to verify it,if possible,especially when you are planning to go to some place.
thanks.
Raghavan said ...
26-Apr-2018On 22/4/18:
Admo [-1], Harrier each way [-2], malavika [-1] art of war [-1] 5 units loss.
Run forest run 4 units gain. So nett is -1 loss. Really ingenuous to gain 1.7 units ROI.
Unbelievable. Just one day's bets. That too 5 horses. He tries to impress us by claiming 1.7 units win. When there is nett loss of 1 unit.
on 21/4/18
Flower dust O.75, Barrack and frivolous [-2], Royal blood 1.4O, Bunting win O.85, Fringe benefit place [-1], MI Shine 1.6. +ve ROI 1.6 units. Of course subject to Make it shine paying 1.6O for place.
But how he can claim 1.7 +ve ROI on 22nd. Lies, damned lies. On which horse he has claimed O.7 unts win on 22nd is a mystery.
Chanakya says I follow him like leech. Then he says that I am writing in the name of Srinivas. I have no necessity to write in another's name. As far as the leech comment is concerned no problem. Three fingers are pointing towards him against one directed at me.
Yes. I am the only one who points out your mistakes. Others think that as an ex Air force officer you are entitled to some liberties in profit claim. There are still others who sing praises on whatever you state. But sadly, your cheerleaders are totally silent while there are many posts challenging your claim of 1O.4 lakhs gain in this thread.
Why I am pointing out your mistakes? Answer is simple.
You are the only person who indulge in buffoonery of million gains.
You said I admitted my loss. That I will do with pleasure. O K. It is my money that I lost. And going by your betting volume, I can easily say that your loss is at least 1O times that of mine.
Chanakya said ...
26-Apr-2018
@ Sun,
though you have remained aloof from controversy; but did participate with your views/opinions/TIPS...
your system is similar to mine, but with a difference...
sheer mathametical calculations will give value which WILL NOT include trainers and jockeys INTENTIONS- because today's OWNERS HAVE NO BACKBONE TO PROTEST OR GO AGAINST THE TRAINER...
incorporate external factors - you may stat getting positive ROI on the selections/bets... WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE AIM OF ANY TIPSTER/PUNTER...
though you have remained aloof from controversy; but did participate with your views/opinions/TIPS...
your system is similar to mine, but with a difference...
sheer mathametical calculations will give value which WILL NOT include trainers and jockeys INTENTIONS- because today's OWNERS HAVE NO BACKBONE TO PROTEST OR GO AGAINST THE TRAINER...
incorporate external factors - you may stat getting positive ROI on the selections/bets... WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE AIM OF ANY TIPSTER/PUNTER...
Chanakya said ...
26-Apr-2018
@ ITR,
the return on my bets were:
admo(-1), Harrier(EW- -0.5 & -0.5), RFRun(+4), Malvika- place(+ 7/10), AOWar(-!)
Malvika was hovering between 3 1/4 to2 3/4- place @ 1/4 of win when favorite is 1 1/2 can be demanded and GOT from your regular bookie
RWITC rule book says that if favorite is (more than even/even ) place for other runners can be demanded at 1/4 of win odds
the modus oprendi of many owners/trainers/jockeys; of mumbai and other center have been decyphered by me - I've no reson to share it here...
+ 0.7 place odds on Malvika were Mumbai bookmakers odds nd not of kolkata or bangalore...
the return on my bets were:
admo(-1), Harrier(EW- -0.5 & -0.5), RFRun(+4), Malvika- place(+ 7/10), AOWar(-!)
Malvika was hovering between 3 1/4 to2 3/4- place @ 1/4 of win when favorite is 1 1/2 can be demanded and GOT from your regular bookie
RWITC rule book says that if favorite is (more than even/even ) place for other runners can be demanded at 1/4 of win odds
the modus oprendi of many owners/trainers/jockeys; of mumbai and other center have been decyphered by me - I've no reson to share it here...
+ 0.7 place odds on Malvika were Mumbai bookmakers odds nd not of kolkata or bangalore...
Indian_turf_record said ...
26-Apr-2018
@ STV,chennai
Bangalore, Friday, 3 March 1978
1. DING A LING, 7yo, (Madan Singh) (9/4) (Trainer Attaolahi)
2. MIGHTY STALLION, 8 yo, (Deepak) (6/1) (Trainer Hayat Mohd.)
3. MAGICIAN (Nasir Beg), 6yo, (4/1) (Trainer Charles)
Treble Paid Rs. 1,126 on 22 tickets.
It is a pleasure -- no trouble at all -- to answer queries of genuine people like you, Glasgow Prince, Kolramsri and others.
I am going to be away from my home-base for about a fortnight so won't be able to answer any queries during that time.
Bangalore, Friday, 3 March 1978
1. DING A LING, 7yo, (Madan Singh) (9/4) (Trainer Attaolahi)
2. MIGHTY STALLION, 8 yo, (Deepak) (6/1) (Trainer Hayat Mohd.)
3. MAGICIAN (Nasir Beg), 6yo, (4/1) (Trainer Charles)
Treble Paid Rs. 1,126 on 22 tickets.
It is a pleasure -- no trouble at all -- to answer queries of genuine people like you, Glasgow Prince, Kolramsri and others.
I am going to be away from my home-base for about a fortnight so won't be able to answer any queries during that time.
Chanakya said ...
25-Apr-2018
@ sun,
i know , you don't want to enter into any controversy; therefore, made a point to ask ITR certain points ( questions?) which he avoided...
he was right. he is a 'record' holder and has result book as a reference and will give correct data, if asked. don't drag him into this discussion/(s)...
@ Manish,
I normally do not reply to this questions and issues posted by you - I just ignore it...
the headpost talks about the selections of 8/4/18 and a 'chance' of rolling...
my post on 22/4/18 NEVER EVER HAS GIVEN AN IDEA OF ROLLING...
why do you have to show your level of 'intelligence' to others...
Stv,chennai said ...
25-Apr-2018
Dear Glasgow Prince,
Back in late 70s or early 80s ,I hit a treble that included Mighty Stallion.To the best of my remembrance,it was ridden by Deepak.The winners in that treble event were-
Magician-Ding A Ling-Mighty Stallion.[perhaps not in that order]
The Treble paid nearly 4000\-
I do not want to trouble I.T.R,but if he were to find time,he can verify the records.
STV.
Back in late 70s or early 80s ,I hit a treble that included Mighty Stallion.To the best of my remembrance,it was ridden by Deepak.The winners in that treble event were-
Magician-Ding A Ling-Mighty Stallion.[perhaps not in that order]
The Treble paid nearly 4000\-
I do not want to trouble I.T.R,but if he were to find time,he can verify the records.
STV.
Indian_turf_record said ...
25-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
Sticking here to what is on record.
Thread Mumbai Race Selections (22/4/18) SUNDAY
Your post 4/22/2018 3:45:59 PM
" Admo win, Harrier - eachway, R F Run - win, Malvika and Art of War - place ... if money comes Malvika should win"
This thread
Your post 4/24/2018 7:31:47 PM
" The return on 22/4 will be = -1 -1 +4 +0.7 -1 = + 1.7 (POSITIVE ROI) "
Kindly elucidate which bet gave you + 0.7 return.
Sticking here to what is on record.
Thread Mumbai Race Selections (22/4/18) SUNDAY
Your post 4/22/2018 3:45:59 PM
" Admo win, Harrier - eachway, R F Run - win, Malvika and Art of War - place ... if money comes Malvika should win"
This thread
Your post 4/24/2018 7:31:47 PM
" The return on 22/4 will be = -1 -1 +4 +0.7 -1 = + 1.7 (POSITIVE ROI) "
Kindly elucidate which bet gave you + 0.7 return.
Sun said ...
25-Apr-2018
@Indian_ Turf _ Record,
My post was not by way of inviting protracted discussions but only clarifying my position on the points raised.
I am happy to say that on those two parameters my system does work.
Thanks.
My post was not by way of inviting protracted discussions but only clarifying my position on the points raised.
I am happy to say that on those two parameters my system does work.
Thanks.
Chanakya said ...
25-Apr-2018
@ GP., your 23/4/18
you are right. in early 70's till ,perhaos 75/76/ a punter could buy number of tickets on the first leg of a Treble ( not on JP), and then exchange winning tickets on the second leg and winning tickets on the second leg could be exchanged for final(third) leg...
it was very good system, becuse after checking odds you had the priviledge to change, alter your choice; which is not possible now...
the treble ticket was costing Rs.5 those days...
you are right. in early 70's till ,perhaos 75/76/ a punter could buy number of tickets on the first leg of a Treble ( not on JP), and then exchange winning tickets on the second leg and winning tickets on the second leg could be exchanged for final(third) leg...
it was very good system, becuse after checking odds you had the priviledge to change, alter your choice; which is not possible now...
the treble ticket was costing Rs.5 those days...
Srinivas said ...
25-Apr-2018
@chankaya,
Instead of manipulating the ROI, why don't you disclose, and calculate, the amount of tax you paid on your wagers ? YOUR SO-CALLED +ve ROI will turn into a _ve on both the days. Even otherwise, on TOTE, you are under a huge -ve.
As for 22nd April, here also, you are using your blatant lie to portray 2 winning wagers, whereas it was only 1 (Run F Run). The other 6 wagers were super flops.
Instead of manipulating the ROI, why don't you disclose, and calculate, the amount of tax you paid on your wagers ? YOUR SO-CALLED +ve ROI will turn into a _ve on both the days. Even otherwise, on TOTE, you are under a huge -ve.
As for 22nd April, here also, you are using your blatant lie to portray 2 winning wagers, whereas it was only 1 (Run F Run). The other 6 wagers were super flops.
Glasgow Prince said ...
25-Apr-2018
The Doc,
In my reply to your query I had said that the game has great intricacies and it takes a long time for anyone to capture the insights in the absence of a capable mentor. Many people ask me what these intricacies that I keep referring to are. As an example, I am reproducing here an excerpt from the Race Day Report with regard to race no 245 of the current Mumbai season run on 25th March.
“The Stipendiary Stewards reported that they had questioned Trainer P. Shroff in the above connection ( Running and riding of Daffodil).Trainer P. Shroff stated that he usually does not give instructions to Jockey A. Sandesh as he works his horses. However, in the paddock the Jockey informed him that he would like to go to the front, to which he had responded stating that the bottom weight horse, “FRIVOLOUS†would likely go to the front. Therefore, it was agreed that the Jockey would settle the filly and ride from there. To a question, Trainer Shroff stated that in his opinion the filly has run a good race and the Jockey has made enough efforts on her. He further explained that in the filly’s immediate previous race she beat “ETERNAL SUNSHINE†by a neck at level weights and in the race in question “ETERNAL SUNSHINE†beat her by ¾ length while receiving 3 kg from her. Further, he felt that the race in question was deliberately run faster in order to run his filly down.â€
The discussion between the jockey and the trainer about the positioning of the horse in view of the fact that the horse was set to carry a heavy impost as compared to the other horses as well as the trainer’s opinion of the deliberately set fast pace of the race serve as examples of the intricacies of this game. If and when a punter becomes aware of such nuances, he stops seeing foul play in every instance in which his fancy bites the dust.
ITR,
I guess I can turn that collar down in this case. Many thanks for taking the trouble.
In my reply to your query I had said that the game has great intricacies and it takes a long time for anyone to capture the insights in the absence of a capable mentor. Many people ask me what these intricacies that I keep referring to are. As an example, I am reproducing here an excerpt from the Race Day Report with regard to race no 245 of the current Mumbai season run on 25th March.
“The Stipendiary Stewards reported that they had questioned Trainer P. Shroff in the above connection ( Running and riding of Daffodil).Trainer P. Shroff stated that he usually does not give instructions to Jockey A. Sandesh as he works his horses. However, in the paddock the Jockey informed him that he would like to go to the front, to which he had responded stating that the bottom weight horse, “FRIVOLOUS†would likely go to the front. Therefore, it was agreed that the Jockey would settle the filly and ride from there. To a question, Trainer Shroff stated that in his opinion the filly has run a good race and the Jockey has made enough efforts on her. He further explained that in the filly’s immediate previous race she beat “ETERNAL SUNSHINE†by a neck at level weights and in the race in question “ETERNAL SUNSHINE†beat her by ¾ length while receiving 3 kg from her. Further, he felt that the race in question was deliberately run faster in order to run his filly down.â€
The discussion between the jockey and the trainer about the positioning of the horse in view of the fact that the horse was set to carry a heavy impost as compared to the other horses as well as the trainer’s opinion of the deliberately set fast pace of the race serve as examples of the intricacies of this game. If and when a punter becomes aware of such nuances, he stops seeing foul play in every instance in which his fancy bites the dust.
ITR,
I guess I can turn that collar down in this case. Many thanks for taking the trouble.
Stv,chennai said ...
25-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya,
I am afraid if I were to reply to your post addressed to me(4\242018),I might have to dwell deep into the topic and discussions once again.I have neither intention nor patience for that.I will try to as brief as possible now.
The last line of your title post " Therefore,a good handicapping system is pre-requisite to win from racing"should naturally meet with approval from many serious race goers.Before that you have claimed "After years of hard work,I have developed a system which regularly -not everyday,gives a positive ROI and occasionally high returns which keeps me afloat in this game".Happy to know that.
A few participants might have misunderstood you as claiming you made a million by rolling on the selections given by you on 8\4\18.You have made clear that that it is not your claim but the stress is on the point that a good h.c.system can reap you substantial rewards.
Matters would have ended there,but for your claim subsequently posted that you did make a million on another day by rolling on your selections.It evoked natural responses here.Participants pointed out,while it is possible theoretically ,practically it is almost impossible to achieve that.They gave valid reasons.
You have asserted that you did make a million and there was a witness to that on that blessed day.Either he is not a participant on H.T or else he has not cared to confirm your claim.Even in the absence of any substantial proof of your claim,I am prepared to accept it as true and congratulate you.But within me,I believe that your exercise was meant to show that your researches into h.c.has enabled you to find out winners more easily.If you have stopped with that ,much of these discussions\arguments would not have taken place.
STV.
I am afraid if I were to reply to your post addressed to me(4\242018),I might have to dwell deep into the topic and discussions once again.I have neither intention nor patience for that.I will try to as brief as possible now.
The last line of your title post " Therefore,a good handicapping system is pre-requisite to win from racing"should naturally meet with approval from many serious race goers.Before that you have claimed "After years of hard work,I have developed a system which regularly -not everyday,gives a positive ROI and occasionally high returns which keeps me afloat in this game".Happy to know that.
A few participants might have misunderstood you as claiming you made a million by rolling on the selections given by you on 8\4\18.You have made clear that that it is not your claim but the stress is on the point that a good h.c.system can reap you substantial rewards.
Matters would have ended there,but for your claim subsequently posted that you did make a million on another day by rolling on your selections.It evoked natural responses here.Participants pointed out,while it is possible theoretically ,practically it is almost impossible to achieve that.They gave valid reasons.
You have asserted that you did make a million and there was a witness to that on that blessed day.Either he is not a participant on H.T or else he has not cared to confirm your claim.Even in the absence of any substantial proof of your claim,I am prepared to accept it as true and congratulate you.But within me,I believe that your exercise was meant to show that your researches into h.c.has enabled you to find out winners more easily.If you have stopped with that ,much of these discussions\arguments would not have taken place.
STV.
Kolramsri said ...
25-Apr-2018
Raghavan...Who am I to give conduct certificate. In this entire thread, my interaction with Chanakya only about R K Winning Single JP. Only once I asked him to give selections for this Bengaluru Summer Races, and he refused to divulge his system.For this I replied , I will not disturb him in future. That is all.
Manish said ...
25-Apr-2018
@others (excluding Chanakya),
He says that place odds are 25% of win. He is so laughable. He didnt even bother to write that whether they are given in 7 horse filed or a min. 8 horse field.
In a supposingly 8 horses filed, if the fav. is 75 p and second fav. is 4 to 1, then as per him, the 2nd fav place should be evens. Where in all over india, bookeis give even place for 4 to 1 second fav. He is just making a laughing stock of himself.
Secondly, he calculates a positive ROI. Now he conveniently forgets that he rolls his bets on daily basis (because you never know, when you will click a roll). So as per his theory, he lost on all days on all his bets. Because his roll never completed.
He says that place odds are 25% of win. He is so laughable. He didnt even bother to write that whether they are given in 7 horse filed or a min. 8 horse field.
In a supposingly 8 horses filed, if the fav. is 75 p and second fav. is 4 to 1, then as per him, the 2nd fav place should be evens. Where in all over india, bookeis give even place for 4 to 1 second fav. He is just making a laughing stock of himself.
Secondly, he calculates a positive ROI. Now he conveniently forgets that he rolls his bets on daily basis (because you never know, when you will click a roll). So as per his theory, he lost on all days on all his bets. Because his roll never completed.
Indian_turf_record said ...
24-Apr-2018
@ Sun
Racing exists because there is difference of opinion. So also various systems exist because there is a difference of opinion and I as said earlier, everyone is free to adopt whatever method he chooses.
So I do not intend getting into protracted discussion. Many years ago, someone told me that a good way to test a system is to see where first choice indicated by a system actually finishes in a race. Also in the same race see where the actual winner was in the calculations. Over a period of time, it tells you whether the system is good and worthy of following.
@ Glasgow Prince
Always a pleasure to refresh memories.
I am afraid this time my findings may not tally with your memory.
RED PEPPER won five races in her career but R.W. Alford was winning jockey in four cases and Shakti Singh in one. (Umrigar rode her just once in Pune and finished second.)
MIGHTY STALLION raced till he was 14 and won many races but never won a race under Shakti Singh.
Closest instance to your remembered treble was:-
Bombay 9 January 1977
RED PEPPER (R.W. Alford) 5/2
AMONTILLADO (E.Alford) 10/1
Those two were first two legs of the treble pool. The final leg was won by RISHI GANGA (Yusuf Khan) who was at 5/2. Treble paid Rs. 757.
Racing exists because there is difference of opinion. So also various systems exist because there is a difference of opinion and I as said earlier, everyone is free to adopt whatever method he chooses.
So I do not intend getting into protracted discussion. Many years ago, someone told me that a good way to test a system is to see where first choice indicated by a system actually finishes in a race. Also in the same race see where the actual winner was in the calculations. Over a period of time, it tells you whether the system is good and worthy of following.
@ Glasgow Prince
Always a pleasure to refresh memories.
I am afraid this time my findings may not tally with your memory.
RED PEPPER won five races in her career but R.W. Alford was winning jockey in four cases and Shakti Singh in one. (Umrigar rode her just once in Pune and finished second.)
MIGHTY STALLION raced till he was 14 and won many races but never won a race under Shakti Singh.
Closest instance to your remembered treble was:-
Bombay 9 January 1977
RED PEPPER (R.W. Alford) 5/2
AMONTILLADO (E.Alford) 10/1
Those two were first two legs of the treble pool. The final leg was won by RISHI GANGA (Yusuf Khan) who was at 5/2. Treble paid Rs. 757.
Crk said ...
24-Apr-2018@ Raghavan ,
' Precis writing was never my strong point '..you say.
I rest my case!
P.S..
You have taken the role of an umpire and protector of HT members from
any post contrary to your thinking, be it numerology, astrology, betting
handicapping,Bookies etc etc.
Sgsridhar_13 said ...
24-Apr-2018
yes. every motor vehicle uses label horse power. and they need service every couple of months otherwise they are not up to their mark. i dont know much about car races. but i think all cars must be of same horse power. but, only one car win. why? anyone can throw some light on this?
Srinivas said ...
24-Apr-2018
@chanakya
On 22nd April, you had just 1 winner in Run F Run, against 6 losing wagers (admo/1, Harrier each way 3, Malavika and Art of War each 1). Yet, you have the audacity to state that you had positive ROI ?
Kolramsri said ...
24-Apr-2018
Srinivas...Yes Chanakya gave selections for21.4.2018 Mumbai races and not how much he will bet. If he comes out and post here he played 20,000 each on Flower Dust and Bunting win and rest only 1000 rupees each. Now you work out his Profit Account.What if he says , he could not bet on 21 &22 April. So NIL balance. I have seen many change their choices and bet amount also vary from horse to horse.
Chanakya said ...
24-Apr-2018
@ stv.,your 21/4 4:31PM and other posts
I wonder what you are driving at. Neither you read the head post properly the way Kolramsri has done, nor you reason out a ppoint logically.
I’ve posted my selections, BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN AND POSTED THIS THREAD AFTER THAT...
This man (raghvan) was silenced by another gentleman who saw me on Invitation day at Bangalore, when I rolled my bets and made more than Rs. 1,20,000 on 3 or 4 selections posted on the previous evening...
He has ,himself , admitted several times on his postings that he is a loser in races and generalises it for everybody else...
I have always made claims ONLY AFTER POSTING MY SELECTIONS BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN AND WHY SHOULD NOT I MAKE IT? He is the only one who like a leech follows me and not others...
I wonder what you are driving at. Neither you read the head post properly the way Kolramsri has done, nor you reason out a ppoint logically.
I’ve posted my selections, BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN AND POSTED THIS THREAD AFTER THAT...
This man (raghvan) was silenced by another gentleman who saw me on Invitation day at Bangalore, when I rolled my bets and made more than Rs. 1,20,000 on 3 or 4 selections posted on the previous evening...
He has ,himself , admitted several times on his postings that he is a loser in races and generalises it for everybody else...
I have always made claims ONLY AFTER POSTING MY SELECTIONS BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN AND WHY SHOULD NOT I MAKE IT? He is the only one who like a leech follows me and not others...
Chanakya said ...
24-Apr-2018
@ srinivas,
You are another raghvan in ‘disguise’ who uses half-truths and half-lies in a desperate attempt to prove his point...
I never play at tote unless my choice is at 10’s or above and is giving better returns than a bookie and therefore, place my bets only with a bookmaker. Falsifying the returns with tote discloses your intention...
Even if we take the closing odds of Mumbai ring ,as published at RWITC site, which are ALWAYS lower for favourites and take place odds as ¼ of win odd; at Mumbai we can demand ¼ odds, if the favorite’s odd is even or more.
The net return on 21/4 will be = 75/100 + 14/10 +85/100 + 16/10 -3 = +1.6 (POSITIVE ROI)
The return on 22/4 will be = -1 -1 +4 +0.7 -1 = + 1.7 again (POSITIVE ROI)
I would advise you to go to your old school to relearn arithmetical calculations...
You are another raghvan in ‘disguise’ who uses half-truths and half-lies in a desperate attempt to prove his point...
I never play at tote unless my choice is at 10’s or above and is giving better returns than a bookie and therefore, place my bets only with a bookmaker. Falsifying the returns with tote discloses your intention...
Even if we take the closing odds of Mumbai ring ,as published at RWITC site, which are ALWAYS lower for favourites and take place odds as ¼ of win odd; at Mumbai we can demand ¼ odds, if the favorite’s odd is even or more.
The net return on 21/4 will be = 75/100 + 14/10 +85/100 + 16/10 -3 = +1.6 (POSITIVE ROI)
The return on 22/4 will be = -1 -1 +4 +0.7 -1 = + 1.7 again (POSITIVE ROI)
I would advise you to go to your old school to relearn arithmetical calculations...
Sun said ...
24-Apr-2018
@Indian_ Turf_ Record
Only today I saw your post.Stopped looking at this as I thought people have had enough discussions and not much interest left.
I appreciate your long and informative reply touching upon the pit falls of mathematical analysis of races.Yes I accept with a rider that it is possible to arrive at 2 to 3 horses and most importantly rule out False Favourites.
You cited many examples of variations in Timings of horses with different weights at different points of time.Yes we cannot in advance predict the timing that may be clocked in a race before the race.However,we can estimate the Times of various runners to a common datum of their past timings and arrive at the difference.If today's race is run at a fast pace the final times may be better than estimated times but we are only interested in differences rather than absolute values.
We also need to look at the Rating advantage to a horse and adjust the timing for Handicap races.As the saying "no single size" fits all there is no single method to give 100% success.A combination of Ratings and Timings has improved my system.
Coming to success rate it is not simply the percentage of Wins but returns on investment that matters.To assess this one must play the same type of bets and same amounts.I have tried different combinations like Win&Shp,Win,Shp and Place in some proportion but finally I feel Win&Place is a better propostion.
Lastly one must be loyal to his system.In just concluded Sunday's races I picked Wind Craft and Star Ace was also in the reckoning but some how I dropped it for Galtero.The Odds should not deter a punter very difficult to follow.
Thanks.
Only today I saw your post.Stopped looking at this as I thought people have had enough discussions and not much interest left.
I appreciate your long and informative reply touching upon the pit falls of mathematical analysis of races.Yes I accept with a rider that it is possible to arrive at 2 to 3 horses and most importantly rule out False Favourites.
You cited many examples of variations in Timings of horses with different weights at different points of time.Yes we cannot in advance predict the timing that may be clocked in a race before the race.However,we can estimate the Times of various runners to a common datum of their past timings and arrive at the difference.If today's race is run at a fast pace the final times may be better than estimated times but we are only interested in differences rather than absolute values.
We also need to look at the Rating advantage to a horse and adjust the timing for Handicap races.As the saying "no single size" fits all there is no single method to give 100% success.A combination of Ratings and Timings has improved my system.
Coming to success rate it is not simply the percentage of Wins but returns on investment that matters.To assess this one must play the same type of bets and same amounts.I have tried different combinations like Win&Shp,Win,Shp and Place in some proportion but finally I feel Win&Place is a better propostion.
Lastly one must be loyal to his system.In just concluded Sunday's races I picked Wind Craft and Star Ace was also in the reckoning but some how I dropped it for Galtero.The Odds should not deter a punter very difficult to follow.
Thanks.
Srinivas said ...
24-Apr-2018
Following are Chanakya's selectiions for Apr.21 and Apr.22, along with LOSS statement:
Apr.21
1)F. Dust
2) Barack
3)frivolous -place
4) R blood place
5) Bunting-win, F. Benefit-P
6)Democrat.... MI Shine -P
Total units wagered : 7 (democrat withdrawn)
Total units returned : 1.5 + 1.6 + 1.5 + 1.3 = 5.9
Total loss = 1.1 units, despite 57.1% of winning wagers !!!
Apr.22
Admo win, Harrier - eachway, R F Run -win, Malvika & Art of war -place...If money comes Malvika should win;
Total units wagered : 7
Total units returned : 2.3
Total loss = 4.7 units. Winning wager percentage = 14.2%
Let us assume the amount of each wagered unit is Rs.1000/- then total loss over the week-end comes to Rs.1100 + Rs.4700 = Rs,5800/-. The loss would obviously be much higher if any roll-over bets (win or place) were to be considered.
So much for working anywhere between 4 to 8 hours each race day, over handicapping, other fraudulent claims of possibility of making millions in racing not even considered !!!
I repeat what I have said before, Horse Racing is a near-100% losing game in India, over a period of time, and those who say otherwise are either bluffing or fooling themselves/others with their bogus claims
Apr.21
1)F. Dust
2) Barack
3)frivolous -place
4) R blood place
5) Bunting-win, F. Benefit-P
6)Democrat.... MI Shine -P
Total units wagered : 7 (democrat withdrawn)
Total units returned : 1.5 + 1.6 + 1.5 + 1.3 = 5.9
Total loss = 1.1 units, despite 57.1% of winning wagers !!!
Apr.22
Admo win, Harrier - eachway, R F Run -win, Malvika & Art of war -place...If money comes Malvika should win;
Total units wagered : 7
Total units returned : 2.3
Total loss = 4.7 units. Winning wager percentage = 14.2%
Let us assume the amount of each wagered unit is Rs.1000/- then total loss over the week-end comes to Rs.1100 + Rs.4700 = Rs,5800/-. The loss would obviously be much higher if any roll-over bets (win or place) were to be considered.
So much for working anywhere between 4 to 8 hours each race day, over handicapping, other fraudulent claims of possibility of making millions in racing not even considered !!!
I repeat what I have said before, Horse Racing is a near-100% losing game in India, over a period of time, and those who say otherwise are either bluffing or fooling themselves/others with their bogus claims
Raghavan said ...
23-Apr-2018
@Kolramsri, crk, and others:
So, you desire that I should stop bashing Chanakya. Right. I have put him in place and no matter how we two speak to each other in future will not make any difference.
However, in my defence, I should speak some facts.
Chanakya made childish claims of making 1 million from 22OO start bet; 3OOO start bets. I only asked him to stop posting such non sense in this open forum. He has his own blog. Let him post 1OOO such claims. No one will worry.
When he speak of such gains he should be ready to answer the queries that follow. Or at least remain silent. He excels in ridiculing the questioner.
That too he speaks only of his choices on 8th. What about his selections on 14, 15, 21 & 22?
Everybody knows that if one keeps on rolling his returns from one race to the next race one can make millions, even crores. The results on Mumbai as latest as on 22/4/18 is a grand example. 3, 8.5, 4, 1O, 2O and 2O were the closing odds on 6 winners. Check yourself how much one can get for 1OOO bets rolled on these. But, show me 1 person in the entire racing history who has won that much. At least 1% of that much.
My only point to Chanakya was not to mislead the punters about such astronomical gains. Everyone is aware what rolling bet is. There is no grand discovery tale in this. He has tried to mislead the punters and take credit about his super knowledge in racing.
Anyway, if you ask me to stop talking about his million gain, no problem. But, he should keep quiet about million gains in future. Let him gain million or crore. He has no business to tom tom it. If he speaks in future about his million gains, then you can be assured of at least one person in H T questioning his claims.
His observation has so many responses. Right. There are some pet admirers of Chanakya who start singing "jai-Ho' on whatever he writes. Mercifully they remained silent. Else, this thread might have crossed 2OO replies. Anyway just think: if there is no lead post from Chanakya, there would be no replies.
About 3O persons are giving their selections here. I find them in no way inferior to Chanakya. Whether any one speaks about his gain/loss. It is true that Chanakya has written some essays, articles on racing. But such postings dos not give him license to speak whatever comes to his mouth against any HT member. I ignored such nasty comments; but said 3 fingers are pointing towards him while only one is directed towards me.
All said, I repeat any body can give selections and be proud if he achieves 1/3rd strike rate. This is universal law. His statement that one can achieve 8O% to 9O% strike rate is mere rubbish.
"When others are keeping quiet, why you alone question his claim?". It is only because of some mavericks like me that this site is not flooded with hundreds of claims of million gains.
Now, I have a small question. I do not think, I have spoken anything against Chanakya personally. Whatever be the provocation. I stick to his selections and where they finished. Still, if in the heat of discussion, there is some violations from my side, point out those lines and without any qualifications, I will happily take back those words/sentences and apologise.
"Harping on the same thing". Well. Precis writing was never my strong point.
Now, let me put one more observation. You have taken the role of umpires and have advised me to stop bashing Chanakya. Right. But, have you made similar request to Chanakya? Or, is it your contention that Chanakya is a goody goody baby and I am quite opposite?
So, you desire that I should stop bashing Chanakya. Right. I have put him in place and no matter how we two speak to each other in future will not make any difference.
However, in my defence, I should speak some facts.
Chanakya made childish claims of making 1 million from 22OO start bet; 3OOO start bets. I only asked him to stop posting such non sense in this open forum. He has his own blog. Let him post 1OOO such claims. No one will worry.
When he speak of such gains he should be ready to answer the queries that follow. Or at least remain silent. He excels in ridiculing the questioner.
That too he speaks only of his choices on 8th. What about his selections on 14, 15, 21 & 22?
Everybody knows that if one keeps on rolling his returns from one race to the next race one can make millions, even crores. The results on Mumbai as latest as on 22/4/18 is a grand example. 3, 8.5, 4, 1O, 2O and 2O were the closing odds on 6 winners. Check yourself how much one can get for 1OOO bets rolled on these. But, show me 1 person in the entire racing history who has won that much. At least 1% of that much.
My only point to Chanakya was not to mislead the punters about such astronomical gains. Everyone is aware what rolling bet is. There is no grand discovery tale in this. He has tried to mislead the punters and take credit about his super knowledge in racing.
Anyway, if you ask me to stop talking about his million gain, no problem. But, he should keep quiet about million gains in future. Let him gain million or crore. He has no business to tom tom it. If he speaks in future about his million gains, then you can be assured of at least one person in H T questioning his claims.
His observation has so many responses. Right. There are some pet admirers of Chanakya who start singing "jai-Ho' on whatever he writes. Mercifully they remained silent. Else, this thread might have crossed 2OO replies. Anyway just think: if there is no lead post from Chanakya, there would be no replies.
About 3O persons are giving their selections here. I find them in no way inferior to Chanakya. Whether any one speaks about his gain/loss. It is true that Chanakya has written some essays, articles on racing. But such postings dos not give him license to speak whatever comes to his mouth against any HT member. I ignored such nasty comments; but said 3 fingers are pointing towards him while only one is directed towards me.
All said, I repeat any body can give selections and be proud if he achieves 1/3rd strike rate. This is universal law. His statement that one can achieve 8O% to 9O% strike rate is mere rubbish.
"When others are keeping quiet, why you alone question his claim?". It is only because of some mavericks like me that this site is not flooded with hundreds of claims of million gains.
Now, I have a small question. I do not think, I have spoken anything against Chanakya personally. Whatever be the provocation. I stick to his selections and where they finished. Still, if in the heat of discussion, there is some violations from my side, point out those lines and without any qualifications, I will happily take back those words/sentences and apologise.
"Harping on the same thing". Well. Precis writing was never my strong point.
Now, let me put one more observation. You have taken the role of umpires and have advised me to stop bashing Chanakya. Right. But, have you made similar request to Chanakya? Or, is it your contention that Chanakya is a goody goody baby and I am quite opposite?
Glasgow Prince said ...
23-Apr-2018
ITR,
Somewhere there was a reference to the system that allowed the punters to nominate their treble pool selections leg by leg. I recall another anecdote, this one related to this treble pool system and I would like to know if my memory serves me right.
I had purchased 10 tickets on three horses in the first leg out of which five were on the winner RED PEPPER ridden by Karl Umrigar which I think won in a close finish. In the second leg, I turned three of them onto AMONTILLADO ridden most probably by Earnie Alford who won comfortably. In the last leg I turned all of them onto the top weight MIGHTY STALLION ridden by Shakti Singh which could be had at 10 to 1. Somehow I was very sure of this horse and Shakti Singh was a fluke master. The huge payout called for a treat. This system was really good as you could get a feel of the betting by looking at the odds and could optimize your chances of a good dividend.
The other point I seek to make is that your statement ‘No theory or system which employs mathematical calculations ……’ would hold good only if there are imperfect assumptions to start with. While your observation is apt in the given context, it is evident that mathematical or quantitative information always gives far more decisive outputs than a qualitative data and hence it stands to reason that our efforts should be aimed at using mathematical calculations as far as possible while ensuring that there are no wrong assumptions to start with or at any stage for that matter.
Somewhere there was a reference to the system that allowed the punters to nominate their treble pool selections leg by leg. I recall another anecdote, this one related to this treble pool system and I would like to know if my memory serves me right.
I had purchased 10 tickets on three horses in the first leg out of which five were on the winner RED PEPPER ridden by Karl Umrigar which I think won in a close finish. In the second leg, I turned three of them onto AMONTILLADO ridden most probably by Earnie Alford who won comfortably. In the last leg I turned all of them onto the top weight MIGHTY STALLION ridden by Shakti Singh which could be had at 10 to 1. Somehow I was very sure of this horse and Shakti Singh was a fluke master. The huge payout called for a treat. This system was really good as you could get a feel of the betting by looking at the odds and could optimize your chances of a good dividend.
The other point I seek to make is that your statement ‘No theory or system which employs mathematical calculations ……’ would hold good only if there are imperfect assumptions to start with. While your observation is apt in the given context, it is evident that mathematical or quantitative information always gives far more decisive outputs than a qualitative data and hence it stands to reason that our efforts should be aimed at using mathematical calculations as far as possible while ensuring that there are no wrong assumptions to start with or at any stage for that matter.
Chanakya said ...
23-Apr-2018
@ ITR,
I would (I'll not use the word 'should') advise you to remain in records field...
It will be better for you...
for example:
your 21/4/18 : 9 27 PM
no theory or system ... in the long run... produce good results...
Did Einstein's two theories or Newton's 'gravity' theory not produce good results - based on which a man landed on moon!
More on your ASSUMPTIONS, remarks...
assumption one: horses are not machines...
True, then why every machine is sold under 1/4.. 1/2 one or 2 or 10 HORSEPOWER LABEL...
WHY SHOULD EDUCATED ENGINEERS, MARKETEERS, MANUFACTURERS AND OTHERS CONTINUOUSLY USE A WRONG STANDARD TO MARKET AND SELL THEIR PRODUCT...
and tell me why ALL THE GOVERNMENTS of various countries ALLOW THEM to use this ' INCONSISTENT' STANDARD!!!
rest later on ...
I would (I'll not use the word 'should') advise you to remain in records field...
It will be better for you...
for example:
your 21/4/18 : 9 27 PM
no theory or system ... in the long run... produce good results...
Did Einstein's two theories or Newton's 'gravity' theory not produce good results - based on which a man landed on moon!
More on your ASSUMPTIONS, remarks...
assumption one: horses are not machines...
True, then why every machine is sold under 1/4.. 1/2 one or 2 or 10 HORSEPOWER LABEL...
WHY SHOULD EDUCATED ENGINEERS, MARKETEERS, MANUFACTURERS AND OTHERS CONTINUOUSLY USE A WRONG STANDARD TO MARKET AND SELL THEIR PRODUCT...
and tell me why ALL THE GOVERNMENTS of various countries ALLOW THEM to use this ' INCONSISTENT' STANDARD!!!
rest later on ...
Manish said ...
23-Apr-2018
There is no big deal in getting 5-6 winners at a trot. We all get it one day or another (considering the fact, that we have spent years in racing). But we tend to forget it because we have not played all the winners. Sometimes, we played place etc. also.
The main point is to punt on all the winners and that too by rolling the whole amount.
And we all are seeing the flip flop by Chanakya. Yesterday also he gave 6 bets or so and got 1 right (RFR) win at about 5 to 1. So he will claim the he came out even stevens. But as per the system in head post, he lost all the bets because his win on RFR was lost on next bet as per rolling method.
The main point is to punt on all the winners and that too by rolling the whole amount.
And we all are seeing the flip flop by Chanakya. Yesterday also he gave 6 bets or so and got 1 right (RFR) win at about 5 to 1. So he will claim the he came out even stevens. But as per the system in head post, he lost all the bets because his win on RFR was lost on next bet as per rolling method.
Chanakya said ...
22-Apr-2018
@ STV.,
don't be apologetic to any.......
you and many others who post here, don't have patience; agreed but do have enough time to read everything - because we can not escape the 'trait' of 'being Indian' who slaved for 700 years under who were 1/1000 of the population they defeated and governed...I'm not sure how many of us will agree or accept this blunt truth...
but we are not discussing history here - though it reflects in all our behaviour and responses...
Many clever, intelligent and affluent businessmen have discovered loopholes and weakness in Indian financial system and ran away with billions while millions still slog to earn thousands by working day and night...
My system PROVIDES to earn million by using LEGAL AND ACCEPTABLE METHODS to make millions!
why do you not accept it - even if the proof is given!
Because you couldn't use it? or, were not sure about its success...
Think and reply...
Raghavan said ...
22-Apr-2018
@STV,
Really sorry.
"I would request Chanakya to enlighten...". Your statement was wrongly understood.
Really sorry.
"I would request Chanakya to enlighten...". Your statement was wrongly understood.
Kolramsri said ...
22-Apr-2018
Raghavan....Just have a look at Chanakya's Head Post last sentence in the First Paragraph.He admits, he has developed a system which regularly- not everyday, gives a positive ROI and OCCASIONALLY very high returns....... Just sit back and calmly see things. Chanakya do not post selections in all race days for all races and every Centre, and he is not obligated to do so.India is a free country.All because , we did not find selections for certain race days from him, we have no idea about his P&Loss account.So till proven guilty, person is innocent.Yesterday my friend while driving to Race Club appreciated my selections Q B.... TR EP....Friv and said he will play these three.For the first 3 races he said he played my selection only. While returning home his Book maker assistant called him for tallying the account. I took the call, and shocked to find He played Flower Dust (win 92/100)Truly Epic(place85/100) Caprisca(win 82/100).He is a friend of mine for the past 52 years.Lastly Why i should support or oppose Chanakya, he can very well take care of himself.Neither i give Tips nor I seek. So it will be clear to you now.
Crk said ...
21-Apr-2018
@ Raghavan,
I think you are going on harping the same thing again and again. Leave it to others to make their own judgement about the head post. Give Chanakya at least the credit for eliciting so many responses, as also the fact that some old timers of this forum came forward to share their views.( Apparently a few of them left for good reason. )
It would be good to keep the debate healthy and not resort to questioning a person's intelligence. A person may be passionate about racing and spends considerable time in studying the intricacies of the same . He may have his good days and bad days,that is how it is and will be.
You are a very senior person and I mean no disrespect to you. Truth is bitter and I had to say it.
Regards.
I think you are going on harping the same thing again and again. Leave it to others to make their own judgement about the head post. Give Chanakya at least the credit for eliciting so many responses, as also the fact that some old timers of this forum came forward to share their views.( Apparently a few of them left for good reason. )
It would be good to keep the debate healthy and not resort to questioning a person's intelligence. A person may be passionate about racing and spends considerable time in studying the intricacies of the same . He may have his good days and bad days,that is how it is and will be.
You are a very senior person and I mean no disrespect to you. Truth is bitter and I had to say it.
Regards.
Indian_turf_record said ...
21-Apr-2018
@ Sun
No theory or system which employs mathematical calculations will, in the long run, produce consistently good results because of starting imperfections in the assumptions made. I thought you had accepted this point when you made the profound statement of the right of decimal point and left of decimal point.
I will state just three of the wrong assumptions as briefly as I can.
ASSUMPTION ONE
That horses are machines who will reproduce the same level of performance that the calculations predict day in and day out. Even machines -- cars in Formula One racing -- have tyre bursts and engine problems.
ASSUMPTION 2
That increase in the weight carried by a horse will decrease his speed by a uniform, measurable amount. No laboratory tests have been carried out to support this assumption and the assumption is based on distilled wisdom which may not always hold good.
I will quote two examples where despite carrying more weight, a horse has run faster:-
RUFFINA won over 1200 m. on 18 Dec carrying 53.5 kgs. by 1 1/2 length clocking 1:11.60. A month later, running on same track and over same distance, and carrying 3.5 kgs. more, she won by 7 1/2 lengths with time of 1:09:80.
RUFUS clocked 1:40:47 over mile carrying 57.0 kgs. One month later, on same track over same distance, carrying 2.0 kgs. more, he clocked better time of 1:39.10.
ASSUMPTION 3
That decrease in weight will make all horses run faster by a uniform amount.
In four of the Oaks this year, winner ran with 57.0 kgs. Later they ran in Derby with 1.5 kgs. less. They all recorded a faster time in Derby as was to be expected but the difference was not uniform:-
MANIFOLD Oaks 2:30:54 Derby 2:29:61 + 1.93
SANA Oaks 2:36:38 Derby 2:34;62 + 1.76
MAHATEJI Oaks 2:32:65 Derby 2:31:11 + 1.54
MASQUERADE Oaks 2:37:51 Derby 2:37:07 + 0.44
I am aware that Mahateji was disqualified. The above four Oaks and Derbys were run on same course. A uniform difference of 1.5 kgs weight carried has resulted in different effect on individual timings.
I have nothing against any system and everyone is free to adopt one which he likes. If one has faith in a system and punts only by that system, he will get his winners now and then and keep is losses in check.
"The efficacy of any system is determined by the factor which has the largest quantum variation." (Or similar such words). I have forgotten where I read it and who said it.
No theory or system which employs mathematical calculations will, in the long run, produce consistently good results because of starting imperfections in the assumptions made. I thought you had accepted this point when you made the profound statement of the right of decimal point and left of decimal point.
I will state just three of the wrong assumptions as briefly as I can.
ASSUMPTION ONE
That horses are machines who will reproduce the same level of performance that the calculations predict day in and day out. Even machines -- cars in Formula One racing -- have tyre bursts and engine problems.
ASSUMPTION 2
That increase in the weight carried by a horse will decrease his speed by a uniform, measurable amount. No laboratory tests have been carried out to support this assumption and the assumption is based on distilled wisdom which may not always hold good.
I will quote two examples where despite carrying more weight, a horse has run faster:-
RUFFINA won over 1200 m. on 18 Dec carrying 53.5 kgs. by 1 1/2 length clocking 1:11.60. A month later, running on same track and over same distance, and carrying 3.5 kgs. more, she won by 7 1/2 lengths with time of 1:09:80.
RUFUS clocked 1:40:47 over mile carrying 57.0 kgs. One month later, on same track over same distance, carrying 2.0 kgs. more, he clocked better time of 1:39.10.
ASSUMPTION 3
That decrease in weight will make all horses run faster by a uniform amount.
In four of the Oaks this year, winner ran with 57.0 kgs. Later they ran in Derby with 1.5 kgs. less. They all recorded a faster time in Derby as was to be expected but the difference was not uniform:-
MANIFOLD Oaks 2:30:54 Derby 2:29:61 + 1.93
SANA Oaks 2:36:38 Derby 2:34;62 + 1.76
MAHATEJI Oaks 2:32:65 Derby 2:31:11 + 1.54
MASQUERADE Oaks 2:37:51 Derby 2:37:07 + 0.44
I am aware that Mahateji was disqualified. The above four Oaks and Derbys were run on same course. A uniform difference of 1.5 kgs weight carried has resulted in different effect on individual timings.
I have nothing against any system and everyone is free to adopt one which he likes. If one has faith in a system and punts only by that system, he will get his winners now and then and keep is losses in check.
"The efficacy of any system is determined by the factor which has the largest quantum variation." (Or similar such words). I have forgotten where I read it and who said it.
Stv,chennai said ...
21-Apr-2018
@Raghavan,
I agree that there are two matters to be dealt with here.
1.The claim of making a million(though occasionally).
2.Personal insinuations aimed at another participant of H.T.
You have pointed out that Chanakya has chosen to call you a born loser.Many others ,like me,would have been unhappy with such remarks about another race goer \H.T.participant.We have chosen not to interfere only with the hope you are quite capable of making your points clear.If I have chosen to engage him on his claims ,it is not because I have ignored the unfortunate language used by Chanakya.
H.T.Admn clearly states at the top of the section that the discussions should not carry any insult to others.
You can draw solace from the truth that H.T.participants would have noted all these and come to their own conclusions/formed their own opinions.
I agree that there are two matters to be dealt with here.
1.The claim of making a million(though occasionally).
2.Personal insinuations aimed at another participant of H.T.
You have pointed out that Chanakya has chosen to call you a born loser.Many others ,like me,would have been unhappy with such remarks about another race goer \H.T.participant.We have chosen not to interfere only with the hope you are quite capable of making your points clear.If I have chosen to engage him on his claims ,it is not because I have ignored the unfortunate language used by Chanakya.
H.T.Admn clearly states at the top of the section that the discussions should not carry any insult to others.
You can draw solace from the truth that H.T.participants would have noted all these and come to their own conclusions/formed their own opinions.
Stv,chennai said ...
21-Apr-2018
@Raghavan,
I do not know how you got the impression that I believe Chanakya has a 'water tight'theory.
I do not have patience to go through all the postings.At the same time I know I have pointed out that there is no use claiming that he could make millions,at least occasionally,by his selections based on his h.c.methods.While I appreciate his response that no one would be willing to share such details [of h.c.] on an open forum like this,I requested him to make his selections[borne out of his h.c.systems] before the races and to avoid making tall claims without a chance to substantiate them.
I do not know how you got the impression that I believe Chanakya has a 'water tight'theory.
I do not have patience to go through all the postings.At the same time I know I have pointed out that there is no use claiming that he could make millions,at least occasionally,by his selections based on his h.c.methods.While I appreciate his response that no one would be willing to share such details [of h.c.] on an open forum like this,I requested him to make his selections[borne out of his h.c.systems] before the races and to avoid making tall claims without a chance to substantiate them.
Raghavan said ...
21-Apr-2018
At Kolramsir, STV Chennai
You seem to believe that Chanakya has a water tight theory and the winners can be located just by following that. If horse race betting is so easy, then every handicapper would have been multi billionaire.
I have given statistics that proves, if proof is really necessary, that handicapping system is one of the several methods that can be applied to racing and the winners will be a little more than what freshers/lay men achieve.
No one loses 1OO%. There will be winners say 15% for a total new comer, some 2O% for those who follow barest principles. Even if you blindly follow favorites you will win 2O% races, provided the said favorites are quoted 1.5 or less. With some brainwork, handicapping, seeing past performance, track work, jockey factor etc you may achieve 3O to 33% strike rate.
Best best methods can stretch the strike rate to 45%. That is a grand strike rate and with that strike rate, and with some discipline a man can bet 2OOO a race and in one year of year he can gain 5 to 7 lakhs. People who think 2OOO is too small an amount in this inflation age, can go for 5k or 1Ok.
But 1/3 strike rate on a long term basis is very difficult to achieve. 45% only by supermen. My salutations to those who achieve this strike rate.
So, I suggest that you do not ask anyone any handicapping method. Leave it to the person the option of sharing his method in free site. If anyone has done hard work and has attained some proficiency, it is his prerogative to keep that study to himself.
Chanakya calls me born loser. O K. Such statements carry no weight; and in any case three fingers will be pointing towards him where as only one finer is directed towards me. He tries to fool us with statements that he is a winner. Let us restrict our interactions only on the statistics, profit & loss of his selections. That too because he boasts of some method which he says true road to prosperity. Asking him to part with the knowledge is justified if his selections win 45% overall. Let him achieve that and I will be the first person to apologise for all the negative postings from my side & will be one of his pet admirer. Just view his choices from 29th to 15th [7 race days] and decide yourself whether I am targeting a good tipster.
You seem to believe that Chanakya has a water tight theory and the winners can be located just by following that. If horse race betting is so easy, then every handicapper would have been multi billionaire.
I have given statistics that proves, if proof is really necessary, that handicapping system is one of the several methods that can be applied to racing and the winners will be a little more than what freshers/lay men achieve.
No one loses 1OO%. There will be winners say 15% for a total new comer, some 2O% for those who follow barest principles. Even if you blindly follow favorites you will win 2O% races, provided the said favorites are quoted 1.5 or less. With some brainwork, handicapping, seeing past performance, track work, jockey factor etc you may achieve 3O to 33% strike rate.
Best best methods can stretch the strike rate to 45%. That is a grand strike rate and with that strike rate, and with some discipline a man can bet 2OOO a race and in one year of year he can gain 5 to 7 lakhs. People who think 2OOO is too small an amount in this inflation age, can go for 5k or 1Ok.
But 1/3 strike rate on a long term basis is very difficult to achieve. 45% only by supermen. My salutations to those who achieve this strike rate.
So, I suggest that you do not ask anyone any handicapping method. Leave it to the person the option of sharing his method in free site. If anyone has done hard work and has attained some proficiency, it is his prerogative to keep that study to himself.
Chanakya calls me born loser. O K. Such statements carry no weight; and in any case three fingers will be pointing towards him where as only one finer is directed towards me. He tries to fool us with statements that he is a winner. Let us restrict our interactions only on the statistics, profit & loss of his selections. That too because he boasts of some method which he says true road to prosperity. Asking him to part with the knowledge is justified if his selections win 45% overall. Let him achieve that and I will be the first person to apologise for all the negative postings from my side & will be one of his pet admirer. Just view his choices from 29th to 15th [7 race days] and decide yourself whether I am targeting a good tipster.
Sun said ...
21-Apr-2018
@Dear All,
As mentioned in a post below I am trying to get selections purely on calculations with no other subjective matters.My research like Chanakya's is going for last 40 years.
I am trying to combine Weights&Distance Handicapping and Timing Analysis.Today I want to test my system giving 1&2 choices for 4 races and let me see how it goes.
RNO 1 Queen's Best and Flower Dust
3 Yanna Rascala and Exodus
4 Abraxas and Sparkling Thea
5 Bunting and Fringe Benefit
Let me see how it goes
As mentioned in a post below I am trying to get selections purely on calculations with no other subjective matters.My research like Chanakya's is going for last 40 years.
I am trying to combine Weights&Distance Handicapping and Timing Analysis.Today I want to test my system giving 1&2 choices for 4 races and let me see how it goes.
RNO 1 Queen's Best and Flower Dust
3 Yanna Rascala and Exodus
4 Abraxas and Sparkling Thea
5 Bunting and Fringe Benefit
Let me see how it goes
Chanakya said ...
20-Apr-2018
Kolramsri,
you have misunderstood me.Perhaps I used wrong words giving wrong impression. I felt you want me to share my system on a free forum. what I meant was that I'll share the 'end result'- the selections and not how I arrived at those selections. I hope you will understand my point...
However, as the main topic is handicapping I'll share the ingredients which I used to develop my system. They are:
speed corrected by PNR values - using 'normal' PNR of track as standard...
weight variation is not linear - 45kg to 52 kg is NOT SAME as 52kg to 59kg...
track work:IS trk isnot same asOS trk, 1200m grass trakwork is not same as 600m..
assessment of real class, not that shown by rating of official handicapper...
draw no. has no importance after 1200m...
there are many more , but I don't give much importance to them except in some special cases. they are: distance change more than +/_ 200m, jockey switch without improvement in 'form' to cheat the punter, etc. to name a few...
you have misunderstood me.Perhaps I used wrong words giving wrong impression. I felt you want me to share my system on a free forum. what I meant was that I'll share the 'end result'- the selections and not how I arrived at those selections. I hope you will understand my point...
However, as the main topic is handicapping I'll share the ingredients which I used to develop my system. They are:
speed corrected by PNR values - using 'normal' PNR of track as standard...
weight variation is not linear - 45kg to 52 kg is NOT SAME as 52kg to 59kg...
track work:IS trk isnot same asOS trk, 1200m grass trakwork is not same as 600m..
assessment of real class, not that shown by rating of official handicapper...
draw no. has no importance after 1200m...
there are many more , but I don't give much importance to them except in some special cases. they are: distance change more than +/_ 200m, jockey switch without improvement in 'form' to cheat the punter, etc. to name a few...
Stv,chennai said ...
20-Apr-2018
Chanakya,
Your reply suggests that I am requesting you to reveal the details of your h.c.system so that others would benefit.I might assure you that it is not so. I have my own system .It did not take me that many years to develop\refine\fine tune the same.I am happy with it.
I am sure that most others would be having their own ways of winner picking.No purpose is served by making a claim that you could make a million ,at least occasionally,because of your h.c.systems.It would naturally evoke responses either requiring you to explain your system of h.c.or else seeking details of the bets played and returns.
Hence,I am of the opinion that the thread started by you has served no useful purpose.It would be better for you to share your thoughts on racing subjects that would be of some use to others or at least lead to healthy discussions.
Your reply suggests that I am requesting you to reveal the details of your h.c.system so that others would benefit.I might assure you that it is not so. I have my own system .It did not take me that many years to develop\refine\fine tune the same.I am happy with it.
I am sure that most others would be having their own ways of winner picking.No purpose is served by making a claim that you could make a million ,at least occasionally,because of your h.c.systems.It would naturally evoke responses either requiring you to explain your system of h.c.or else seeking details of the bets played and returns.
Hence,I am of the opinion that the thread started by you has served no useful purpose.It would be better for you to share your thoughts on racing subjects that would be of some use to others or at least lead to healthy discussions.
Raghavan said ...
20-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
4 to 8 hrs a day. 2OO days a year. For over four decades.
And yet only 1 win on 14th, only one win on 15th, 1.5 win on 7th.
1 win on 3Oth. And that winner paid 7Ops. Zero win on 29th.
Gains on 1st and 8th. But, those gains hardly covers the loss on the dates I have mentioned above.
If this is the fate of a man who works 4 to 8 hrs a day, for 2OO days a year and for 4 decades, that only underlines that winning in races is extremely difficult.
So even with so much hard study, your strike rate is not even 1/3rd. That is what I am saying so forcefully all these days. "It requires reasonable understanding to achieve a strike rate of 1/3rd. 45% can be achieved by some supermen". I pity the intelligence and grasp of a person who struggle so hard and still be in loss.
Kolramsri said ...
20-Apr-2018
Chanakya... Why do you think an extended arm towards you seeking alms from you. Why don't you stop to think, that arm is trying to pull you away from a speeding truck behind you. Take Care.
Kolramsri said ...
20-Apr-2018
Thank You CHANAKYA.....i will try not to disturb you in future.
The Doc said ...
20-Apr-2018
You can wake up who is asleep, but can never wake up who pretends to be asleep.
Chanakya said ...
19-Apr-2018
Kolramsri and STV,
I know that you are a handicapper and try to find a winner by your methods. Many times you may succeed and several times you may fail. If the end result, after a trial run - say 100 or 200 id positive you have a good system ; otherwise it needs corrections. work on it. you may not need my help...
I've worked four decades roughly 4 to 8 hours a day for more than 200 days a year and still getting positive ROI - much better than average and you want me to share it with you and others...
Have a heart, if you have... is a saying in English...
yes, I'll share only the end results of my system, OCCASIONALLY, but offering on a platter the methodology and the'path' is nothing but a ''KARAKIRI' which many innocent people in second world war did...
NO ONE REMEMBERS THEM , NOT EVEN JAPANESE!!!
I know that you are a handicapper and try to find a winner by your methods. Many times you may succeed and several times you may fail. If the end result, after a trial run - say 100 or 200 id positive you have a good system ; otherwise it needs corrections. work on it. you may not need my help...
I've worked four decades roughly 4 to 8 hours a day for more than 200 days a year and still getting positive ROI - much better than average and you want me to share it with you and others...
Have a heart, if you have... is a saying in English...
yes, I'll share only the end results of my system, OCCASIONALLY, but offering on a platter the methodology and the'path' is nothing but a ''KARAKIRI' which many innocent people in second world war did...
NO ONE REMEMBERS THEM , NOT EVEN JAPANESE!!!
Chanakya said ...
19-Apr-2018
@manish, is a limit, where ignorance ends. Claimed to be from Delhi but does not know Delhi bookies are the best paymasters and offer best odds for place... for a (8/10)favorite some of them will offer 25/100 and for a race with less than 8 runners they will, sometime offer 28/100 or 3/10 for place... many times instead of putting my money on win I opted for place which gave me better average...
I was in Delhi during 1999/2000 and usually visit it during summer vacation - may-july...
@ Raghavan,
there is no use wasting time with you because you earn your LIVELYHOOD by selectively picking from a posting,not understanding the main idea of a post and using a FREE forum to REMAIN IN LIMELIGHT, WITHOUT PROVIDING ANY HELP TO A HAPLESS PUNTER BY USING THE GOD'S GIFT CALLED BRAIN , BY POSTING FEW TIPS- which may succeed; AND MAKE YOU CLAIM - I DID IT!!!!
CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING FOR THE BENEFIT OF HAPLESS PUNTERS...
Raghavan said ...
19-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
On 15th your choice were checkmate, bay of love, vitesse, miss money & birdstone.
on 14th your choice were isinit, chaplin, majestical and ebony each way.
In two days races only checkmate and isinit won.
on 7th your choices were initwinit, massimo, Requiwhir, Columbiana, queens quest.
initwinit won. Columbiana won-but that was your place choice. A massive 15/- is the place dividend.
This is the fate of all punters. In a day they will win at the most 2. They will return home with marginal gain or marginal loss. Some times they will touch 3 wins in a day and that will be plus day for them.
There are cases when a punter can proudly declare more than 3 winners. For eg; Your choices had registered more than 3 winners on 8th. Such grand wins will be very rare. Do not boast of million win, deep insight in handicap and whatnot on such day. The handicap method is good. But not good enough to claim strike rate of over 4O%. The stakeholders are better judges in handicapping and even they will not be in a position to claim strike rate of over 4O%.
No body can win in races. No body will win in races. All over India, there may be hundred/two hundred punters who might be making money. But over 998OO people are condemned to lose and only lose in races. So, singling out one days choices and claiming that punters can win on a regular basis, that too in millions by mastering handicap techniques, is an outright lie.
There are 2O to 4O tipsters who are active in this site and also other site. If you are having time, patience tabulate all their choices for one full season and you will find hardly anyone scoring 4O% strike rate.
So stop this clatter and talking through hat. Everybody knows that the other punter is loser. Everybody is conscious of his own loss. Convey your selections if you are inclined to and let the horsetalk members decide to either play or ignore. Do not shout over roof tops your million gains. Do not mislead. You have taken your choices of 8th to claim 1O.4 lakhs win. What happened to your other day's selections. On 29th Kolkata races you gave 13 selections and all lost. On 3Oth you gave 7 choices out of which only one, Glyndeburn at 7Ops won.
In a way GST is a boon to punters. My win/place bets totally vanished. Only forecast. That too I am happy if I can score in 2O% of attempts. [Trinella, exacta only when there is c/o amount].
On 15th your choice were checkmate, bay of love, vitesse, miss money & birdstone.
on 14th your choice were isinit, chaplin, majestical and ebony each way.
In two days races only checkmate and isinit won.
on 7th your choices were initwinit, massimo, Requiwhir, Columbiana, queens quest.
initwinit won. Columbiana won-but that was your place choice. A massive 15/- is the place dividend.
This is the fate of all punters. In a day they will win at the most 2. They will return home with marginal gain or marginal loss. Some times they will touch 3 wins in a day and that will be plus day for them.
There are cases when a punter can proudly declare more than 3 winners. For eg; Your choices had registered more than 3 winners on 8th. Such grand wins will be very rare. Do not boast of million win, deep insight in handicap and whatnot on such day. The handicap method is good. But not good enough to claim strike rate of over 4O%. The stakeholders are better judges in handicapping and even they will not be in a position to claim strike rate of over 4O%.
No body can win in races. No body will win in races. All over India, there may be hundred/two hundred punters who might be making money. But over 998OO people are condemned to lose and only lose in races. So, singling out one days choices and claiming that punters can win on a regular basis, that too in millions by mastering handicap techniques, is an outright lie.
There are 2O to 4O tipsters who are active in this site and also other site. If you are having time, patience tabulate all their choices for one full season and you will find hardly anyone scoring 4O% strike rate.
So stop this clatter and talking through hat. Everybody knows that the other punter is loser. Everybody is conscious of his own loss. Convey your selections if you are inclined to and let the horsetalk members decide to either play or ignore. Do not shout over roof tops your million gains. Do not mislead. You have taken your choices of 8th to claim 1O.4 lakhs win. What happened to your other day's selections. On 29th Kolkata races you gave 13 selections and all lost. On 3Oth you gave 7 choices out of which only one, Glyndeburn at 7Ops won.
In a way GST is a boon to punters. My win/place bets totally vanished. Only forecast. That too I am happy if I can score in 2O% of attempts. [Trinella, exacta only when there is c/o amount].
Glasgow Prince said ...
19-Apr-2018
ITR,
Your findings are interesting and they do show that more favorites did not win in the old days. They also show that Mumbai is a good centre to focus on from a betting viewpoint. Generally, I think old-timers get nostalgic because that is the age when they enjoyed their racing the most. These days racing has lost lot of the old time thrill because of the overdose of racing round the year.
Your findings are interesting and they do show that more favorites did not win in the old days. They also show that Mumbai is a good centre to focus on from a betting viewpoint. Generally, I think old-timers get nostalgic because that is the age when they enjoyed their racing the most. These days racing has lost lot of the old time thrill because of the overdose of racing round the year.
Krisna said ...
19-Apr-2018
Chankaya
you say ...Pay for it . pay 10,000 to a charity and show me the proof ; I’ll send you the free tips for the day..Thats too easy for any one..
well and what if it fails?
you say ...Pay for it . pay 10,000 to a charity and show me the proof ; I’ll send you the free tips for the day..Thats too easy for any one..
well and what if it fails?
Kolramsri said ...
19-Apr-2018
Chanakya .. to browse the entire thread once again is tiresome. so I request you to come out with the system which kept you in good stead so far. I will look forward for your selections for the Bengaluru Summer season. For so long I was comfortable with Bangalore Races. Let us leave out RWITC for any discussion.All the Best.
Chanakya said ...
19-Apr-2018
Dr. Bashaar,
My lead post’s idea has not changed.
My 17/4/18 post ‘proves’ that ‘even if’ you do not have courage to roll; you could have been a winner by selecting every choice as a’unit’ bet and not a part of a roll bet.
Very surprising, dr. Sahib. In good old days our vaidyas and hakims used to diagnose correctly by touching the ‘nadi’ of a patient... what happened now?
@ giantfly,
Go and fly a kite.
You want free tips to make money; why?
Pay for it . pay 10,000 to a charity and show me the proof ; I’ll send you the free tips for the day...
@ PDS, your 18/4/18, 9 PM,
I’ve not drawn you. You came on your own. Furthermore, I’ve never made a wrong, incorrect or bad remark about you or your points. However, if you feel slighted, I’ll ignore all your postings in future...
My correct selections are 17 and not 13. Read my postings carefully . I don’t get any pleasure or income ( which is my aim to go to races) from these postings on these forums. I try to prove a point and I’ve done it many times...
I’m sure you are not from Mumbai. Everyone who bets here in 1000’s or more knows the tax. I’ll not put it here ...
It is so low that if you give it to a beggar he will never give you a second look. Thanking is out of question!!!
Credit goes to enterprising bookmakers of Mumbai – to teach a lesson to those ....... who came one night and took away betting sheets of some....those/these don’t have the guts to tell bigger to reduce the tax and takeaways...
Reduce it to 5%( tax and takeaways)... within 2 to 3 years MH govt. Will get more than 10 times the revenue from this game ...
Stv,chennai said ...
19-Apr-2018
To summarise the discussions on this thread:-
Chanakya titled his post "A good handicapping system can make a punter a millionaire".He followed it with an example of a few tips he gave for Mumbai races on 8\4\18.He pointed out that a Roll of 3000 on these would have given a Return of 1040000\-.He concluded "Therefore,a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from racing.No problem.
After that the discussions have gone into various points,some pertinent,some worthwhile recollecting,some anecdotes and some quite unconnected.Let us forget all that.
Most racegoers believe that "a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from races".
Now I would request Chanakya to enlighten us about one such system by way of a separate thread [without any personal jibes from either side]
Chanakya titled his post "A good handicapping system can make a punter a millionaire".He followed it with an example of a few tips he gave for Mumbai races on 8\4\18.He pointed out that a Roll of 3000 on these would have given a Return of 1040000\-.He concluded "Therefore,a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from racing.No problem.
After that the discussions have gone into various points,some pertinent,some worthwhile recollecting,some anecdotes and some quite unconnected.Let us forget all that.
Most racegoers believe that "a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from races".
Now I would request Chanakya to enlighten us about one such system by way of a separate thread [without any personal jibes from either side]
Chanakya said ...
19-Apr-2018
@ PDS.,
I agree with the points you have raised that most of the posts lack the understanding of the basic idea/theme of the thread. But that has been the trend always on a free forum like this...
Basic aim of horse race handicapping is to find the winner of the race. Any method/(s) used to achieve the aim is called successful handicapping. Speed, pace, form,class, intentions, ability etc may be termed as essential components of handicapping...
One more point. Some oldtimers, become nostalgic about 'good old days'...
In 70's and 80's races were run only on weekends and holidays and punters had sufficient time of almost 6 days to study the runners from the handicapping stage...nowadays races are run almost everyday, except from April to June; where is the time to study all the parameters affecting the runners of a race...
I agree with the points you have raised that most of the posts lack the understanding of the basic idea/theme of the thread. But that has been the trend always on a free forum like this...
Basic aim of horse race handicapping is to find the winner of the race. Any method/(s) used to achieve the aim is called successful handicapping. Speed, pace, form,class, intentions, ability etc may be termed as essential components of handicapping...
One more point. Some oldtimers, become nostalgic about 'good old days'...
In 70's and 80's races were run only on weekends and holidays and punters had sufficient time of almost 6 days to study the runners from the handicapping stage...nowadays races are run almost everyday, except from April to June; where is the time to study all the parameters affecting the runners of a race...
Chanakya said ...
19-Apr-2018
ITR.,
you are right. Percentage of favorites winning in India is higher, most of the years, than the world average which hovers between 30-34%.
Few years back an analyst in UK analysed more than 100,000 races run over many years, in that country and found the win % of favorites around 33-34%
Several years back I also did a small analysis of Pune races for a period of 10 years and found that 3 years olds gave best winning % ~ 50%+
though the sample was small but the trend can be established...
you are right. Percentage of favorites winning in India is higher, most of the years, than the world average which hovers between 30-34%.
Few years back an analyst in UK analysed more than 100,000 races run over many years, in that country and found the win % of favorites around 33-34%
Several years back I also did a small analysis of Pune races for a period of 10 years and found that 3 years olds gave best winning % ~ 50%+
though the sample was small but the trend can be established...
Giant Fly said ...
19-Apr-2018
@Chanakya, I understand that you believe your system works....while others don't...so why don't we put it to the test. NEXT few weeks I shall invest 10,000 on your selections and see how it goes, you can also advise before race time if it has to be place rolled or win roll....are you up to the challenge?
Dr.bashaar said ...
19-Apr-2018
Mr.Chanakya,
your lead post was to make a roll bet and become millionaire ( even if it is occasionally )!!!!
But now in your post dated 17.04.2018, you are claiming to have won 18 units bet + as per your tips.
From when and why did you change your betting from roll bets to unit bets ? Just because your tips failed to succeed in roll ?
If as per your tips everyday from 30th March to 15th April if roll bets were to have been made..... ??? ( Only Zero of the Millions would remain ).
As per your lead post you should have stuck on to roll and not unit bets. Isnt it ? ( No - in racing you are free to do what you wish to do- no one can question you).But you seem to be changing your betting style ( roll or unit bets ) - again after the races as per the success or failure of the tip.
Nowhere in your lead post, you have made any mention of unit bets!!!
Dr.Bashaar
your lead post was to make a roll bet and become millionaire ( even if it is occasionally )!!!!
But now in your post dated 17.04.2018, you are claiming to have won 18 units bet + as per your tips.
From when and why did you change your betting from roll bets to unit bets ? Just because your tips failed to succeed in roll ?
If as per your tips everyday from 30th March to 15th April if roll bets were to have been made..... ??? ( Only Zero of the Millions would remain ).
As per your lead post you should have stuck on to roll and not unit bets. Isnt it ? ( No - in racing you are free to do what you wish to do- no one can question you).But you seem to be changing your betting style ( roll or unit bets ) - again after the races as per the success or failure of the tip.
Nowhere in your lead post, you have made any mention of unit bets!!!
Dr.Bashaar
Chanakya said ...
18-Apr-2018
@ ITR,
I considered you to be a person confined only to race records and not ready to ‘express’ human traits.
It is not bad , at all, to finally come out of a self designed cell, and express yourself...
Your points about handicapping are true, perfect and correct. But the extensions to micro- calculations are not ; because no one has the capacity and time to incorporate ‘ALL’ the variables in the calculations.... 3, may be 4 and sometime 5 (max.) variables can be used in a race – which may be lost or won.... if ALL THE VARIABLES LISTED BY YOU CAN BE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE AVAILABLE TIME – ALL THE RACES WITH THIS FACILITY CAN BE WON!!!
Therefore ,be practical and don’t find fault with ‘small errores’ – as per your own admission...
I considered you to be a person confined only to race records and not ready to ‘express’ human traits.
It is not bad , at all, to finally come out of a self designed cell, and express yourself...
Your points about handicapping are true, perfect and correct. But the extensions to micro- calculations are not ; because no one has the capacity and time to incorporate ‘ALL’ the variables in the calculations.... 3, may be 4 and sometime 5 (max.) variables can be used in a race – which may be lost or won.... if ALL THE VARIABLES LISTED BY YOU CAN BE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE AVAILABLE TIME – ALL THE RACES WITH THIS FACILITY CAN BE WON!!!
Therefore ,be practical and don’t find fault with ‘small errores’ – as per your own admission...
Manish said ...
18-Apr-2018
Guys,
So Chanakya has admitted that he never rolls his amount on the winners. Which clearly shows that his earlier claims of making a million were fake.
He shows his calculations as per bookie odds, but while calculating profit, he conveniently ignores the tax part.
How conveneient.......
So Chanakya has admitted that he never rolls his amount on the winners. Which clearly shows that his earlier claims of making a million were fake.
He shows his calculations as per bookie odds, but while calculating profit, he conveniently ignores the tax part.
How conveneient.......
Pds said ...
18-Apr-2018
Chanakya, Once again you have drawn me in your exercise of self praise to offer some observations. Would like that you to once again check back your claims, because I feel some corrections are reqd. Your data says that on these six days of racing, your first choices won 13 times and lost 21 times. Kindly check back
and let all of us know the correct figures and it will also be prudent to include the tax paid also in all your bets. Hope to get the revised calculations soon because I am very keen to become a millionaire by following your expertise.
Shall be very grateful.( pl refer your 04/17/2018)
and let all of us know the correct figures and it will also be prudent to include the tax paid also in all your bets. Hope to get the revised calculations soon because I am very keen to become a millionaire by following your expertise.
Shall be very grateful.( pl refer your 04/17/2018)
Indian_turf_record said ...
18-Apr-2018
@ Glasgow Prince
Your statement -- "... I don't think more favourites were winning in those days ..." -- persuaded me to carry out small exercise and I am giving details below. They are of Bombay winter season.
1973-74 - 235 races run 91 favourites won Percentage 38.72
1993-94 - 470 races run 193 favourites won Percentage 41.06
2013-14 - 374 races run 158 favourites won Percentage 42.24
Calculation is manual and so there can be errors. Not sure if statistical sample is large enough to draw any conclusions but results are interesting and fully back your statement.
One observation I have on above stats is that percentage is much higher than expected and also higher than generally accepted universal percentage.
Other observation is in those days there was no social media and so no outlet for punters to express their grief.
Your statement -- "... I don't think more favourites were winning in those days ..." -- persuaded me to carry out small exercise and I am giving details below. They are of Bombay winter season.
1973-74 - 235 races run 91 favourites won Percentage 38.72
1993-94 - 470 races run 193 favourites won Percentage 41.06
2013-14 - 374 races run 158 favourites won Percentage 42.24
Calculation is manual and so there can be errors. Not sure if statistical sample is large enough to draw any conclusions but results are interesting and fully back your statement.
One observation I have on above stats is that percentage is much higher than expected and also higher than generally accepted universal percentage.
Other observation is in those days there was no social media and so no outlet for punters to express their grief.
Raghavan said ...
17-Apr-2018
@Chanakya,
It is amusing to note your repeated claims of selections 'before the races'. As far as my knowledge goes no one in this site or other site gives selections after the race. The very meaning of selections/tips is it is before the races.
I noticed that you gave 2 choices in a race on 2 or 3 occasions.
For eg: Requiwhir/columb princess Place, Grey Flannel/windcraft place. We understood the above tips as Requiwhir win/columb prince place; Grey flannel win and windcraft place. So Columbiana princess place bet only should be claimed.
But you claimed is O.1 + 1.25 on requi/columb. 1.25 + O on Greyflan/wind. Such false claims/lies have boosted your win units to 17.
And I do not know which fool of a bookie took your bet on Requiwhir for place. His taking that bet is secondary. First of all you will not be able to tender cash with the idea of place on Requiwhir. The odds on that horse for place will be always double dash.
The odds you claimed on other horses also is extremely questionable. For eg: Columb princess you say gave 1.25 odds. The only 3 horses in the betting in that race were Requiwhir, Excellent, and columbiana. Others were at 12/1, 15/1, 25/1 etc. In that race Columbiana would be only odds on for place. Also, for the 4th favorite Rogue one you are stating that odds are 2.5O. Such statements do not carry any credibility. Of course, in this regard, I am on a weak wicket because there are no bookies at BNG.
Anyway, I am expecting some race goer at Mumbai to give correct place odds.
Be that as it may, there was absolutely no reference to the 13 selections given by you on 29th Kolkata races and all chioces are squarely beaten. Of course, you may say that the statement refers to the period 3Oth March to 15th April. But, such suppression of facts exposes only your half truths.
Anyway, if you are 17 units winner or 275 units winner is not our botheration. When you claimed profit in this public forum, you are duty bound to answer some relevant questions. If you choose to ignore our questions well and good. But, you are not supposed to shout at the questioner. Please remember that we never accept your shouting as proof of your wins. And calling names of the questioner is the silliest way to ensure that he remains silent.
I always stick to your selections while questioning. If that sends you in red hot rage I am not at fault. Never claim wins in millions & more if you do not give indications of your bet in advance. Just think. 1OO+ replies to your win claims; majority of people expressing their disbelief. You could have as well remained silent and all this heated exchanges could have been avoided.
You banked heavily on your pet admirers to sing praises on you and to isolate me. They let you down. Today you are claiming 17 units win as if you are the only winner & all others are in loss. Arre baba, in the just concluded week end races out of 13 races 9 or 1O favorites or well backed horses won.
Whatever may be your wins/losses, your statement that a knowledgeable punter can attain a strike rate of more than 8O% to 9O% is total rubbish. The statement was the most stupid one that I have come across. I always said that a punter with reasonable knowledge of races will be proud if 1/3rd of his selections win. Around 45% strike rate can be claimed only by supermen.
It is amusing to note your repeated claims of selections 'before the races'. As far as my knowledge goes no one in this site or other site gives selections after the race. The very meaning of selections/tips is it is before the races.
I noticed that you gave 2 choices in a race on 2 or 3 occasions.
For eg: Requiwhir/columb princess Place, Grey Flannel/windcraft place. We understood the above tips as Requiwhir win/columb prince place; Grey flannel win and windcraft place. So Columbiana princess place bet only should be claimed.
But you claimed is O.1 + 1.25 on requi/columb. 1.25 + O on Greyflan/wind. Such false claims/lies have boosted your win units to 17.
And I do not know which fool of a bookie took your bet on Requiwhir for place. His taking that bet is secondary. First of all you will not be able to tender cash with the idea of place on Requiwhir. The odds on that horse for place will be always double dash.
The odds you claimed on other horses also is extremely questionable. For eg: Columb princess you say gave 1.25 odds. The only 3 horses in the betting in that race were Requiwhir, Excellent, and columbiana. Others were at 12/1, 15/1, 25/1 etc. In that race Columbiana would be only odds on for place. Also, for the 4th favorite Rogue one you are stating that odds are 2.5O. Such statements do not carry any credibility. Of course, in this regard, I am on a weak wicket because there are no bookies at BNG.
Anyway, I am expecting some race goer at Mumbai to give correct place odds.
Be that as it may, there was absolutely no reference to the 13 selections given by you on 29th Kolkata races and all chioces are squarely beaten. Of course, you may say that the statement refers to the period 3Oth March to 15th April. But, such suppression of facts exposes only your half truths.
Anyway, if you are 17 units winner or 275 units winner is not our botheration. When you claimed profit in this public forum, you are duty bound to answer some relevant questions. If you choose to ignore our questions well and good. But, you are not supposed to shout at the questioner. Please remember that we never accept your shouting as proof of your wins. And calling names of the questioner is the silliest way to ensure that he remains silent.
I always stick to your selections while questioning. If that sends you in red hot rage I am not at fault. Never claim wins in millions & more if you do not give indications of your bet in advance. Just think. 1OO+ replies to your win claims; majority of people expressing their disbelief. You could have as well remained silent and all this heated exchanges could have been avoided.
You banked heavily on your pet admirers to sing praises on you and to isolate me. They let you down. Today you are claiming 17 units win as if you are the only winner & all others are in loss. Arre baba, in the just concluded week end races out of 13 races 9 or 1O favorites or well backed horses won.
Whatever may be your wins/losses, your statement that a knowledgeable punter can attain a strike rate of more than 8O% to 9O% is total rubbish. The statement was the most stupid one that I have come across. I always said that a punter with reasonable knowledge of races will be proud if 1/3rd of his selections win. Around 45% strike rate can be claimed only by supermen.
Chanakya said ...
17-Apr-2018
@ PDS,
After more than 100 irrelevant postings, I could find your posting which has a meaning.
Racing is not ,today's game- it is a competition. it is too old - when winner used to take all...
Now winner takes a bigger slice and gratis is offered to next placed runners to maintain interest, hope etc.
You have been right( perhaps honest?) and decent- to escape bad- mouthing- by some of these 'permanently' mischievous elements 'resident' on these free sites...
I have no problem with them...
Coming back to the point...
you said:
"...the most important of all is, that non of the contributors have even touched as to what is handicapping and what all it involves..."
Do you think most of these worthies know what actual handicapping is? Forget about good handicapping, which except few no one knows...
finale,
Present day races are not run for punters. Many, rather most of them, are run for manipulators, ( trainers/owners) in collusion with bookies to fleece the ignorant punter...
Many years ago , in 70's 80's even in late 90's aggrieved punters gave vent to their feeling of manipulations by creating a riot , disturbance and forcing the races to be cancelled.... even a prize money celebration( M Nareddu was a part?) was cancelled... Nareddu may be ignorant but the racing public was biased against him?? why?? he only can explain.../
@ PDS.,
last words.:What you wrote is true, correct to the point; but how many of them will read it PROPERLY, TRY TO IMPLEMENT IN THEIR SYSTEM and carry out tral runs on 500/1000 races of their centre...
NONE, I'm sure...
Then, BACK TO SQUARE ONE...
why?
Majority , rather 99.9% of these gamblers think that they are MORE intelligent, clever, better informed( through Khabris) etc.
to be continued...
Glasgow Prince said ...
17-Apr-2018
ITR,
Thanks for the correction. I guess I can justifiably put my collar up (:)) for getting all the important facts right though they are more than 45 years old.
The Doc,
Yes, we all had a short and sweet time together. It will be nice to meet again.
I am not sure if everyone is an overall winner even in the beginning. My thoughts on increasing losses…….making the system manageable to make it effective is the biggest challenge. One has to optimize the system by deciding where to trade off. The efficacy of the system is not necessarily directly proportional to the number of factors taken into account. Apart from this of course, it is the usual sin of ‘chasing one’s losses’. That said, the game has great intricacies and it takes a long time for anyone to catch the insights in the absence of a capable ‘mentor’.
Thanks for the correction. I guess I can justifiably put my collar up (:)) for getting all the important facts right though they are more than 45 years old.
The Doc,
Yes, we all had a short and sweet time together. It will be nice to meet again.
I am not sure if everyone is an overall winner even in the beginning. My thoughts on increasing losses…….making the system manageable to make it effective is the biggest challenge. One has to optimize the system by deciding where to trade off. The efficacy of the system is not necessarily directly proportional to the number of factors taken into account. Apart from this of course, it is the usual sin of ‘chasing one’s losses’. That said, the game has great intricacies and it takes a long time for anyone to catch the insights in the absence of a capable ‘mentor’.
Chanakya said ...
17-Apr-2018
@ All,
This thread is a sequel to my earlier thread - how to win at races...
The starting sentence said "
A good handicapping system can make a punter a millionaire OCCASIONALLY...
The lead post ended :
A good.handicapping....... is a pre-requisite to win from racing...
The central point was UNLESS you have developed a GOOD SYSTEM you can not win in racing...
To support- 'OCCASIONALLY millionaire' I provided an example as a proof, which made many people uncomfortable...
More than initial 102 responses, could not understand the central issue/point, which was but natural; because most of the respondents had their own 'axe to grind'...they could not digest that some one can ‘occasionally’ become millionaire from the game in which they have been losing regularly...
To create a back up for this thread I started posting my selections for Mumbai races, from 30/3/18 and till 15/4 /18 I had posted 34 selections from races no 252 to 290. I had 17 success from wins & wins/ place bettings...
I don’t bet at tote unless it shows better returns – which happens only for flukes or 10/1 odds. Moreover , odds published by RWITC are closing odds and every one knows that 90% of favourites will have lower closing odds.
My successful bets with odds within bracket were :30/3/18: Glyndebourne(Even), Grey Flannel-P (5/4),(lost 5 bets); on 1/4/18 – winning bets:Madagasker (7/10), caprice(E), Nightfall-P(6/1- tote paid Rs. 58),DuskyPrincess-eachway(-1+1), Pokerface (9/4); on 7/4 18: IN ITWin It( 5/2),Riquewhir & C Princess-both P ().1+5/4); on 8/4/18: S Eddie(7/1), R one-P(5/2),Glyndebourne(11/10), Southpaw(Even),Arc Shine(2/1); 14/4/18: Isinit(2/1) only; 15/4/18: checkmate (5/2) .
All these bets as well as losing bets alongwith them were posted BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN!
These 17 successful bets out of 34 gives me a net profit of 35-17 = 18 units...
The reader is at liberty to choose the unit as a tenner or 1000 or 2000
Therefore, to make winning from races a habit, punter must develop a good , successful system; which EVEN TODAY can enable a punter to win regularly and avoid being nostalgic for the good old days of 70’s and 80’s
This thread is a sequel to my earlier thread - how to win at races...
The starting sentence said "
A good handicapping system can make a punter a millionaire OCCASIONALLY...
The lead post ended :
A good.handicapping....... is a pre-requisite to win from racing...
The central point was UNLESS you have developed a GOOD SYSTEM you can not win in racing...
To support- 'OCCASIONALLY millionaire' I provided an example as a proof, which made many people uncomfortable...
More than initial 102 responses, could not understand the central issue/point, which was but natural; because most of the respondents had their own 'axe to grind'...they could not digest that some one can ‘occasionally’ become millionaire from the game in which they have been losing regularly...
To create a back up for this thread I started posting my selections for Mumbai races, from 30/3/18 and till 15/4 /18 I had posted 34 selections from races no 252 to 290. I had 17 success from wins & wins/ place bettings...
I don’t bet at tote unless it shows better returns – which happens only for flukes or 10/1 odds. Moreover , odds published by RWITC are closing odds and every one knows that 90% of favourites will have lower closing odds.
My successful bets with odds within bracket were :30/3/18: Glyndebourne(Even), Grey Flannel-P (5/4),(lost 5 bets); on 1/4/18 – winning bets:Madagasker (7/10), caprice(E), Nightfall-P(6/1- tote paid Rs. 58),DuskyPrincess-eachway(-1+1), Pokerface (9/4); on 7/4 18: IN ITWin It( 5/2),Riquewhir & C Princess-both P ().1+5/4); on 8/4/18: S Eddie(7/1), R one-P(5/2),Glyndebourne(11/10), Southpaw(Even),Arc Shine(2/1); 14/4/18: Isinit(2/1) only; 15/4/18: checkmate (5/2) .
All these bets as well as losing bets alongwith them were posted BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN!
These 17 successful bets out of 34 gives me a net profit of 35-17 = 18 units...
The reader is at liberty to choose the unit as a tenner or 1000 or 2000
Therefore, to make winning from races a habit, punter must develop a good , successful system; which EVEN TODAY can enable a punter to win regularly and avoid being nostalgic for the good old days of 70’s and 80’s
Pds said ...
17-Apr-2018
Friends, Like most of the writers and followers of the thread I have also been reading all the write ups keenly and critically. I have a few observations, but the most important of all is, that non of the contributors have even touched as to what is handicapping and what all it involves. Gentlemen, handicapping is a complete and composite package/term which means the complete analysis of a Race and all involved from A to Z. Meaning thus, to consider/study each and every one/ thing involved.(e.g all runners, all jockeys, all trs, all owners, training and preparation, suitable distances, importance of Race, odds, Bookies, chances of mixing up, chances of fair/ unfair/ foul play, study of trial runs/ mishaps and so many other factors.
Dear friends this is not to scare you, but yes, this is to apprise you that to be a good and successful handicapper a lot has to be learnt, practiced and kept in mind and sights and this is applicable to all of us, old, young and very young inspiring Race lovers.
Good luck to all.
Dear friends this is not to scare you, but yes, this is to apprise you that to be a good and successful handicapper a lot has to be learnt, practiced and kept in mind and sights and this is applicable to all of us, old, young and very young inspiring Race lovers.
Good luck to all.
The Doc said ...
17-Apr-2018
@ ITR
You are a go to guy when old records are concerned, and no wonder why. You have beautifully explained why handicapping fails sometimes. As you stated correctly we do not factor in other extraneous factors. No system is perfect in determining winner so one must accept the fact and move on instead of blaming all and sundry for failure.
@ Glasgow Prince
How are you sir. It was wonderful meeting you over pune derby weekend. I was in course last month, wanted to meet you but had to leave early for some work so didn't call. Hope to catch you next time. Please keep writing here at least once in while to remind us that there some sane voices left.
One interesting fact, everyone is a winner when he/she starts racing. As time passes one starts to lose more than win. Does it have anything to do with deviating from basics and going in to too deep analysis?? your thoughts.
@ All
last few posts are the essence of what HT is for. After a long long time, we got to read quality posts. Hope we do not drive away such people from forum. Its out loss that we can not utilize their expertise and wisdom.
You are a go to guy when old records are concerned, and no wonder why. You have beautifully explained why handicapping fails sometimes. As you stated correctly we do not factor in other extraneous factors. No system is perfect in determining winner so one must accept the fact and move on instead of blaming all and sundry for failure.
@ Glasgow Prince
How are you sir. It was wonderful meeting you over pune derby weekend. I was in course last month, wanted to meet you but had to leave early for some work so didn't call. Hope to catch you next time. Please keep writing here at least once in while to remind us that there some sane voices left.
One interesting fact, everyone is a winner when he/she starts racing. As time passes one starts to lose more than win. Does it have anything to do with deviating from basics and going in to too deep analysis?? your thoughts.
@ All
last few posts are the essence of what HT is for. After a long long time, we got to read quality posts. Hope we do not drive away such people from forum. Its out loss that we can not utilize their expertise and wisdom.
Sun said ...
16-Apr-2018
@Indian Turf Record
Well said.We try to work for accuracy after the Decimal while the figure to the left of decimal is a big question mark
Thanks.
Well said.We try to work for accuracy after the Decimal while the figure to the left of decimal is a big question mark
Thanks.
Indian_turf_record said ...
16-Apr-2018
@ Glasgow Prince,
Nice to have you back on the forum. I fully understand and appreciate your unstated reasons for not particiapting more often.
Whenever someone quotes of racing incidents more than 30 years ago, my first instinct is to check for errors. It is impossible for anyone to have a memory so sharp that details can be recounted correctly 100 %. I let many such errors pass because I know the man who has posted has made a mistake as we all do. I enjoy it more when people like STV, Kolramsri and others ask me check my records to refresh their memories. However, I step in when someone is quoting wrong facts only to blow his own trumpet.
There are a couple of small errors in your post and I am giving the correct facts ONLY to refresh your memory.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, 19 November 1972 (Opening Day of the Season)
FOURTH Race, Dibrugarh Cup, Class VB, 13 runners
1. CREDIT CALL (Yusuf Khan) (N. Lalji) 12/1
2. Clover (JAYANTILAL) (R. Mulla) 20/1
Verdict: Hd, 1 1/4, 1/2
Divdends: Wins Rs. 65 Place Rs. 15.50, 12.50 and Rs. 9 Forecast Rs. 956.50
Objection by rider of second horse against the winner for bumping and boring from 1000 m. to 300 m. overruled
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Credit Call (ex Lady Love) and Clover were daughters of Zinosca. Clover was owned by Mr. G.A. Jasdanwalla. The Jasdanwallas were a big racing racing family in Western India and I distinctly remember the Jasdanwalla children watching racing from stone benches near Gallops (of course, Gallops was not there in those days). Shiba was the retained jockey for Jasdanwallas and had won a couple of races earlier on Clover.
One very big reason why all racing systems -- handicapping, speedrating and so on -- have their limitations is that we calculate minute quantities but have no control over factors which make a bigger difference. Also, any system which uses mathematical calculations expects the horses to behave like machines.
No athlete -- equine or human-- can produce the same timing everyday. We all feel full of beans on some days and a bit under the weather on other days. Would that not be true of horses ? The range in which the performance of an individual horse or an athlete fluctuates determines his class. Good horses and good athletes have a smaller range of fluctuation.
Over a period of time, it may be possible to determine the range in which a horse's performance fluctuates and that should be added to the predicted figure we work out. Unfortunately, by the time we have sufficient data of a horse's day to day variation, his career is over.
We calculate the effect of draw, the going and so on micro seconds. What is effect of being left at start, being intereferred, jockey losing the whip ? It is definitely much more in quantum than our micro calculations.
At the end of the day, we are unable to digest why our predictions went wrong and then start blaming extraneous factors.
Nice to have you back on the forum. I fully understand and appreciate your unstated reasons for not particiapting more often.
Whenever someone quotes of racing incidents more than 30 years ago, my first instinct is to check for errors. It is impossible for anyone to have a memory so sharp that details can be recounted correctly 100 %. I let many such errors pass because I know the man who has posted has made a mistake as we all do. I enjoy it more when people like STV, Kolramsri and others ask me check my records to refresh their memories. However, I step in when someone is quoting wrong facts only to blow his own trumpet.
There are a couple of small errors in your post and I am giving the correct facts ONLY to refresh your memory.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, 19 November 1972 (Opening Day of the Season)
FOURTH Race, Dibrugarh Cup, Class VB, 13 runners
1. CREDIT CALL (Yusuf Khan) (N. Lalji) 12/1
2. Clover (JAYANTILAL) (R. Mulla) 20/1
Verdict: Hd, 1 1/4, 1/2
Divdends: Wins Rs. 65 Place Rs. 15.50, 12.50 and Rs. 9 Forecast Rs. 956.50
Objection by rider of second horse against the winner for bumping and boring from 1000 m. to 300 m. overruled
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Credit Call (ex Lady Love) and Clover were daughters of Zinosca. Clover was owned by Mr. G.A. Jasdanwalla. The Jasdanwallas were a big racing racing family in Western India and I distinctly remember the Jasdanwalla children watching racing from stone benches near Gallops (of course, Gallops was not there in those days). Shiba was the retained jockey for Jasdanwallas and had won a couple of races earlier on Clover.
One very big reason why all racing systems -- handicapping, speedrating and so on -- have their limitations is that we calculate minute quantities but have no control over factors which make a bigger difference. Also, any system which uses mathematical calculations expects the horses to behave like machines.
No athlete -- equine or human-- can produce the same timing everyday. We all feel full of beans on some days and a bit under the weather on other days. Would that not be true of horses ? The range in which the performance of an individual horse or an athlete fluctuates determines his class. Good horses and good athletes have a smaller range of fluctuation.
Over a period of time, it may be possible to determine the range in which a horse's performance fluctuates and that should be added to the predicted figure we work out. Unfortunately, by the time we have sufficient data of a horse's day to day variation, his career is over.
We calculate the effect of draw, the going and so on micro seconds. What is effect of being left at start, being intereferred, jockey losing the whip ? It is definitely much more in quantum than our micro calculations.
At the end of the day, we are unable to digest why our predictions went wrong and then start blaming extraneous factors.
Sun said ...
16-Apr-2018
Hello Glasgow Prince,
I am fine.I do appreciate your pointers on Winner picking with Handicapping doing the basic work and other parameters factored in.My limited objective is by pure calculation pick a horse to play Win & Shp and be in profit with a success rate of 75%.Hope to find time to analyse at least 2 races per day.Of late I am little busy with other works and not able to find time for analysis.
Hope to be there from Bangalore Summer
Thanks
I am fine.I do appreciate your pointers on Winner picking with Handicapping doing the basic work and other parameters factored in.My limited objective is by pure calculation pick a horse to play Win & Shp and be in profit with a success rate of 75%.Hope to find time to analyse at least 2 races per day.Of late I am little busy with other works and not able to find time for analysis.
Hope to be there from Bangalore Summer
Thanks
Stv,chennai said ...
16-Apr-2018
Dear Glasgow Prince,
I am afraid that instead of your trying to correct any impression that you gave,it is myself who should do that to correct a wrong impression that my statement "I have reason to believe that you do not attach importance to h.c." could have created.I should have said something to the effect that your belief in h.c is qualified.I regret the lapse.I knew for long time your views on the subject and have attached due importance to them.
Knowledgeable and experienced race goers like Srinivas,Albert Khare,Kolramsri and many others here have already said that in earlier years results were mostly in tune with h.c.but matters took a turn for the worse after say 90 ,s.I have also agreed with them.You have given your reasoning for that.You have pointed out that in those days Maharajas and Ranis mostly owned the horses and that the keynote was prestige.An enlightening pointer indeed.
Racing being what it is,a complex game ,no one could have made money in millions even in those days even when h.c. was largely responsible for results.This statement,I agree,requires some elucidation,but I would rather prefer not to go into it for the moment.At the same time,it is belief of many that it was easier to pick the winner those days;The percentage should have been greater.
Your anecdote narrated in the last para is indeed interesting.Most of us have similar experiences.It would be worthwhile sharing them here during the vacation time by way of a separate thread.
Thanks a lot..
I am afraid that instead of your trying to correct any impression that you gave,it is myself who should do that to correct a wrong impression that my statement "I have reason to believe that you do not attach importance to h.c." could have created.I should have said something to the effect that your belief in h.c is qualified.I regret the lapse.I knew for long time your views on the subject and have attached due importance to them.
Knowledgeable and experienced race goers like Srinivas,Albert Khare,Kolramsri and many others here have already said that in earlier years results were mostly in tune with h.c.but matters took a turn for the worse after say 90 ,s.I have also agreed with them.You have given your reasoning for that.You have pointed out that in those days Maharajas and Ranis mostly owned the horses and that the keynote was prestige.An enlightening pointer indeed.
Racing being what it is,a complex game ,no one could have made money in millions even in those days even when h.c. was largely responsible for results.This statement,I agree,requires some elucidation,but I would rather prefer not to go into it for the moment.At the same time,it is belief of many that it was easier to pick the winner those days;The percentage should have been greater.
Your anecdote narrated in the last para is indeed interesting.Most of us have similar experiences.It would be worthwhile sharing them here during the vacation time by way of a separate thread.
Thanks a lot..
Glasgow Prince said ...
16-Apr-2018
Hello Sun, I am fine thank you. Hope you are fine too. Yes, handicapping though important is bound to have some inherent limitations because it tacitly assumes that all other things are same. When I say all other things I am not only referring to other factors such jockey skills, fitness, distance suitability, etc, but also effect of draw numbers, connections’ strategy, running of the race, change in track conditions, change of venue, etc. Hope to meet you some time.
Dear STV, if I have somehow given you the impression that I don’t give importance to handicapping then I need to correct it. Handicapping is a basic and important tool and I don’t think anyone will deny that. However, although I do use handicapping I deploy it in a different manner. In the old days, when a majority of the horses were owned mostly by Maharajas and Maharanis, racing was mainly for prestige and handicapping used to work much better only because the factor of intent was never in doubt. All the same the other factors did make a difference to the result and hence no one could become a millionaire on the basis of handicapping alone even in those days. Why, I don’t think even in those days there were many people who were making money from races on a regular basis. I don’t have statistics but I don’t think more favourites were winning in those days either.
As an aside, I would like to share an entertaining anecdote. When I started my racing journey –if I may call it that – I was all at sea without having the faintest idea of how to go about making a selection. Then I happened to read a book ‘Master Key of Races’ by T. G. Butaney which gave me my first lessons about weight and distance handicapping. It was a completely new insight and I was so excited that I just couldn’t wait for the weekend races. On the race day, I made a thorough preparation on the basis of what I had read. As I remember, the first race of the day was for the lowest class and there were around 15/16 horses. My calculations showed that only two horses could win the race viz. Credit Call ridden by Yusuf Khan and Clover ridden by Shiba. Both were at good odds. As the horses neared the winning post, I could not believe my eyes. Credit Call and Clover were fighting it out and in a photo finish Credit Call won. I had fivers riding on both and I got a good dividend. Some thrill was however robbed by the fact that I did not buy forecast tickets because that paid a very handsome dividend many times the win dividend on Credit Call. That taught me the importance of handicapping like nothing else.
Dear STV, if I have somehow given you the impression that I don’t give importance to handicapping then I need to correct it. Handicapping is a basic and important tool and I don’t think anyone will deny that. However, although I do use handicapping I deploy it in a different manner. In the old days, when a majority of the horses were owned mostly by Maharajas and Maharanis, racing was mainly for prestige and handicapping used to work much better only because the factor of intent was never in doubt. All the same the other factors did make a difference to the result and hence no one could become a millionaire on the basis of handicapping alone even in those days. Why, I don’t think even in those days there were many people who were making money from races on a regular basis. I don’t have statistics but I don’t think more favourites were winning in those days either.
As an aside, I would like to share an entertaining anecdote. When I started my racing journey –if I may call it that – I was all at sea without having the faintest idea of how to go about making a selection. Then I happened to read a book ‘Master Key of Races’ by T. G. Butaney which gave me my first lessons about weight and distance handicapping. It was a completely new insight and I was so excited that I just couldn’t wait for the weekend races. On the race day, I made a thorough preparation on the basis of what I had read. As I remember, the first race of the day was for the lowest class and there were around 15/16 horses. My calculations showed that only two horses could win the race viz. Credit Call ridden by Yusuf Khan and Clover ridden by Shiba. Both were at good odds. As the horses neared the winning post, I could not believe my eyes. Credit Call and Clover were fighting it out and in a photo finish Credit Call won. I had fivers riding on both and I got a good dividend. Some thrill was however robbed by the fact that I did not buy forecast tickets because that paid a very handsome dividend many times the win dividend on Credit Call. That taught me the importance of handicapping like nothing else.
Stv,chennai said ...
15-Apr-2018
GP,
I have reason to believe that you do not attach importance to h.c.No problem.
But if we were to discuss the utility\futility of h.c,for reasons already stated,I am averse to doing it here.If you are anyone else were to start it by way of a separate thread, I will join the discussions.
I have reason to believe that you do not attach importance to h.c.No problem.
But if we were to discuss the utility\futility of h.c,for reasons already stated,I am averse to doing it here.If you are anyone else were to start it by way of a separate thread, I will join the discussions.
Sun said ...
15-Apr-2018
Hello Glasgow Prince
After such a long time.How are you?
Very aptly said which you advised me long time.Still groping in the dark.
Do write on the forum little more frequently.
Thanks.
After such a long time.How are you?
Very aptly said which you advised me long time.Still groping in the dark.
Do write on the forum little more frequently.
Thanks.
Stv,chennai said ...
15-Apr-2018
GP,
Glad to see you here after a long break.I wish to go through it all over once again before responding.thanks.
Glad to see you here after a long break.I wish to go through it all over once again before responding.thanks.
Stv,chennai said ...
15-Apr-2018
In deference to the wishes of our friend The Doc,I would not like to add anything more here.
Before signing off,I agree with him "its disheartening to see once a respected and esteemed writer's fall from grace to which he himself is responsible"
I hope that the gentleman would do some introspection and change.
Best Wishes to All.
Before signing off,I agree with him "its disheartening to see once a respected and esteemed writer's fall from grace to which he himself is responsible"
I hope that the gentleman would do some introspection and change.
Best Wishes to All.
Glasgow Prince said ...
15-Apr-2018STV,
After reading your posts I am tempted to say that the title of the lead post should have been
'A good handicapping system is not enough to make a punter a millionaire (or more appropriately to sustain himself')
Kolramsri said ...
14-Apr-2018
Dear Chanakya, what you desired, you got it (breaching Century mark). Shall we go back to evening races today.
The Doc said ...
14-Apr-2018
Let mine be the 100th post..
Dear Esteemed HT members
Tone and tenor of the discussions is alarmingly going down these days. Its disheartening to see once a respected and esteemed writer's fall from grace to which he himself is responsible. It's pitiful to watch his attempts to show he still matters and is of consequence. But my dear friends, time is always changing so you must too.
Request all to park the topic here and lets not waste energy on inconsequential things. Utilize time for better things. Expecting few barks but so be it. Realised the perils of writing here long time back so stopped visiting the HT except for contests (plan to stop in participating in them too from coming season).
Have a good day Gentleman!!
Dear Esteemed HT members
Tone and tenor of the discussions is alarmingly going down these days. Its disheartening to see once a respected and esteemed writer's fall from grace to which he himself is responsible. It's pitiful to watch his attempts to show he still matters and is of consequence. But my dear friends, time is always changing so you must too.
Request all to park the topic here and lets not waste energy on inconsequential things. Utilize time for better things. Expecting few barks but so be it. Realised the perils of writing here long time back so stopped visiting the HT except for contests (plan to stop in participating in them too from coming season).
Have a good day Gentleman!!
Stv,chennai said ...
14-Apr-2018
Indian Turf Record,
Thanks for enabling me to refresh my memory.It is such a pleasure reliving those moments.Thanks again.
Thanks for enabling me to refresh my memory.It is such a pleasure reliving those moments.Thanks again.
Stv,chennai said ...
14-Apr-2018
Kolramsri sir,
In my opinion,the Enter The Red-Red Chieftain--Own Opinion-losses and wins were all part of a strategy to defeat Royal Tern at the Invitation.By misjudging RC as the horse to beat,Karl Umrigar,lost the race to Own Opinion.It was reported that he wept inconsolably after the race.It is all part of racing folklore now.
MAM was all after winning prestigious events.Of course his later domination at Chennai and running races to suit his whims and fancies invited the wrath of punters and Chennai races lost their old glory.It is now reported that his foster son and others are trying to regain that lost interest at Chennai.Let me hope that they succeed in their efforts.
In my opinion,the Enter The Red-Red Chieftain--Own Opinion-losses and wins were all part of a strategy to defeat Royal Tern at the Invitation.By misjudging RC as the horse to beat,Karl Umrigar,lost the race to Own Opinion.It was reported that he wept inconsolably after the race.It is all part of racing folklore now.
MAM was all after winning prestigious events.Of course his later domination at Chennai and running races to suit his whims and fancies invited the wrath of punters and Chennai races lost their old glory.It is now reported that his foster son and others are trying to regain that lost interest at Chennai.Let me hope that they succeed in their efforts.
Chanakya said ...
14-Apr-2018
@S.T.V.,& Kolramsri,
You are right that 70'-90's were handicappers delight. The reason was most of the owners , trainers, jockeys used to take pride in winning a race, rather than 'eating' the favorite which has become a norm in this century...
I am afraid , that you have not analysed my points given to succeed in today's tricky environment of racing. One of you have already given 4 or 5 points; by adding some more you may be able to develop a reasonably good system...
Give it a try...
You are right that 70'-90's were handicappers delight. The reason was most of the owners , trainers, jockeys used to take pride in winning a race, rather than 'eating' the favorite which has become a norm in this century...
I am afraid , that you have not analysed my points given to succeed in today's tricky environment of racing. One of you have already given 4 or 5 points; by adding some more you may be able to develop a reasonably good system...
Give it a try...
Chanakya said ...
14-Apr-2018
@ITR,
I never could believe that you will stoop so low!
those days on sundays we used to have lunch at Gupta's at Kempgowda circle and then walk down to Sangam to watch a movie... why can't I see a movie called Sangam at Sangam theatre?
those days there was no TV, NO IPL or matches, games etc at even big Cities- Delhi ,Bombay etc.; only means of entertainment was movies which people used to even repeat many times... movies used to run 25/50 weeks continuously - today most of them are out after 25/50 days!
Most of the theater in big cities used to repeat old popular movies...
BTW, you may be knowing 'todays' Bangalore and Sangam of gandhinagar, but I'm sure you did not know Bangalore of 1960's and Sangam of Kempgowda which might have disappeared by now and probably converted into a mall...
@ MM,
I'm talking of Bangalore Sangam and not of Mumbai...
I never could believe that you will stoop so low!
those days on sundays we used to have lunch at Gupta's at Kempgowda circle and then walk down to Sangam to watch a movie... why can't I see a movie called Sangam at Sangam theatre?
those days there was no TV, NO IPL or matches, games etc at even big Cities- Delhi ,Bombay etc.; only means of entertainment was movies which people used to even repeat many times... movies used to run 25/50 weeks continuously - today most of them are out after 25/50 days!
Most of the theater in big cities used to repeat old popular movies...
BTW, you may be knowing 'todays' Bangalore and Sangam of gandhinagar, but I'm sure you did not know Bangalore of 1960's and Sangam of Kempgowda which might have disappeared by now and probably converted into a mall...
@ MM,
I'm talking of Bangalore Sangam and not of Mumbai...
Stv,chennai said ...
14-Apr-2018
@RAGHAVAN,
I am mighty happy that you understood me.I wanted to give importance to my views on the Topic posted ,handicapping,first.
I know that there is some misunderstanding between the two of you and a lot of exchange of words is going on.It is not as if I have preferred to remain neutral.For that matter,I would not be giving weight to knowledge or age ,in taking sides.You are also a senior citizen by age and should be experienced in racing for quite some decades.
It is just that discretion prevented me from getting into an advisory role in that issue.You might be rest assured that if I choose to write on the matter,I will go through the entire episode fully and express my feelings\judgement without fear or favour.
I am mighty happy that you understood me.I wanted to give importance to my views on the Topic posted ,handicapping,first.
I know that there is some misunderstanding between the two of you and a lot of exchange of words is going on.It is not as if I have preferred to remain neutral.For that matter,I would not be giving weight to knowledge or age ,in taking sides.You are also a senior citizen by age and should be experienced in racing for quite some decades.
It is just that discretion prevented me from getting into an advisory role in that issue.You might be rest assured that if I choose to write on the matter,I will go through the entire episode fully and express my feelings\judgement without fear or favour.
Indian_turf_record said ...
14-Apr-2018
@ STV, Chennai
It is always pleasure to respond to someone who is trying to refresh his memory of races long ago. From clues given by you, I think your first instance and second instance are the same but your memory has made them into one.
BOMBAY, Saturday, 7 April 1979
Jackpot paid Rs. 2,28,731 on 1 ticket.
Details of jackpot races:-
LONE STAR (N Reuben) (DN Adenwalla) (7/10 fav) Tote Rs. 7 (5 ran)
JAN-E-ALAM (Purtu Singh) (IA Sait) (12/1) Tote Rs. 155.50 (6 ran)
There were six runners and not three as you say. Favourite was Blue Hanovar (Umrigar) who finished second. Lodged unseccessful objection.
SURIKA (P Bosle) (J Dalal) (6/1) Tote Rs. 53 (11 ran)
Waah Re Pyare ran in this race.
ROSE OF SHIRAZ (K Umrigar) (B Chenoy) (2/1 fav) Tote Rs. 13 (7 ran)
Inza (V Shinde) also ran in this race and he was 9/4 in books. Rose of Shiraz may have been Tote favourite.
SOLAR MUSIC (V Shinde) (IA Sait) (3/1) Tote Rs. 15.50 (7 ran)
@ Mad Max
I think you are confused. Sangam and Tudor Jet are not all connected to RK's jackpot. Secondly, it is clear from Chanakya's posting that he was in Bangalore on Tudor Jet's Bangalore Derby day. You seem to have forgotten that there was no IVB in '60s so cannot see any connection between Tudor Jet and Bombay.
It is always pleasure to respond to someone who is trying to refresh his memory of races long ago. From clues given by you, I think your first instance and second instance are the same but your memory has made them into one.
BOMBAY, Saturday, 7 April 1979
Jackpot paid Rs. 2,28,731 on 1 ticket.
Details of jackpot races:-
LONE STAR (N Reuben) (DN Adenwalla) (7/10 fav) Tote Rs. 7 (5 ran)
JAN-E-ALAM (Purtu Singh) (IA Sait) (12/1) Tote Rs. 155.50 (6 ran)
There were six runners and not three as you say. Favourite was Blue Hanovar (Umrigar) who finished second. Lodged unseccessful objection.
SURIKA (P Bosle) (J Dalal) (6/1) Tote Rs. 53 (11 ran)
Waah Re Pyare ran in this race.
ROSE OF SHIRAZ (K Umrigar) (B Chenoy) (2/1 fav) Tote Rs. 13 (7 ran)
Inza (V Shinde) also ran in this race and he was 9/4 in books. Rose of Shiraz may have been Tote favourite.
SOLAR MUSIC (V Shinde) (IA Sait) (3/1) Tote Rs. 15.50 (7 ran)
@ Mad Max
I think you are confused. Sangam and Tudor Jet are not all connected to RK's jackpot. Secondly, it is clear from Chanakya's posting that he was in Bangalore on Tudor Jet's Bangalore Derby day. You seem to have forgotten that there was no IVB in '60s so cannot see any connection between Tudor Jet and Bombay.
Sun said ...
14-Apr-2018
Dear All,
We need to call in Sherlock Holmes to solve this riddle.
@Mad Max
Like the misunderstanding of his head post where he never claimed that he played the 5 bet roll similarly he did not state that he saw movie right from start and also immediately after release.At our place Hyderabad it played for more than 6 months in the same theatre.
This is my view.
We need to call in Sherlock Holmes to solve this riddle.
@Mad Max
Like the misunderstanding of his head post where he never claimed that he played the 5 bet roll similarly he did not state that he saw movie right from start and also immediately after release.At our place Hyderabad it played for more than 6 months in the same theatre.
This is my view.
Mad Max said ...
14-Apr-2018
@ Indian_Turf_Record
@ Chanakaya
SANGAM released in India in the year 1964, precisely on 18th June. Mumbai season starts from November and ends in March (those days). So there is a conflict of facts, Chanakyaji please check it again. It is possible you watched some other movie in SANGAM THEATRE. Remember that Movie, we will get the year in which RK got the JP.
@ Chanakaya
SANGAM released in India in the year 1964, precisely on 18th June. Mumbai season starts from November and ends in March (those days). So there is a conflict of facts, Chanakyaji please check it again. It is possible you watched some other movie in SANGAM THEATRE. Remember that Movie, we will get the year in which RK got the JP.
Raghavan said ...
13-Apr-2018
@STV Chennai,
Really sorry. You are not taking sides; that is and that should be the right spirit. Sorry, I read something unnecessary. That you are defending chanakya.
Neither support or oppose X; nor support or oppose Y. A good policy.
Really sorry. You are not taking sides; that is and that should be the right spirit. Sorry, I read something unnecessary. That you are defending chanakya.
Neither support or oppose X; nor support or oppose Y. A good policy.
Indian_turf_record said ...
13-Apr-2018
@ Chanakya
Your post 4/11/2018 9:52:18 PM clearly says "Watched movie called Sangam ..."
In your post 4/13/2018 2:18:49 you state "did see a movie at Sangam theatre ..."
I do not think you have any problem with English but you are trying to get out of jam by cleverly trying to confuse the movie named Sangam with a movie at Sangam theatre. Whether you went with 6 or 60 people is immaterial. I have merely expressed my doubt that it is unlikely that you "watched movie called Sangam" on the day Tudor Jet won Bangalore Derby.
BTW, I know Bangalore well and I know there is a cinema hall called Sangam in Gandhi Nagar
Your post 4/11/2018 9:52:18 PM clearly says "Watched movie called Sangam ..."
In your post 4/13/2018 2:18:49 you state "did see a movie at Sangam theatre ..."
I do not think you have any problem with English but you are trying to get out of jam by cleverly trying to confuse the movie named Sangam with a movie at Sangam theatre. Whether you went with 6 or 60 people is immaterial. I have merely expressed my doubt that it is unlikely that you "watched movie called Sangam" on the day Tudor Jet won Bangalore Derby.
BTW, I know Bangalore well and I know there is a cinema hall called Sangam in Gandhi Nagar
Mad Max said ...
13-Apr-2018
@ Chanakyaji
From Mahalaxmi Race Course to Chakala, Andheri where Sangam Theatre was existed earlier (of late renamed the new complex as Carnival Cinemas), the distance is around 20+ kilometres. Four wheelers took around 1.30 hours to reach there at Sangam from Mahalaxmi those days. Feature races are regularly held at Mahalaxmi at 4.00 PM. They conducted two to three races after the feature event. At Mahalaxmi last race normally ends at 5.30 pm in winter or at 6 pm in March April. Evening shows at Mumbai (then Single Screen theatres) started at 6.00 pm or maximum by 6.30 pm. Can someone collect the dividends and reach Sangam Theatre before 6.30 to watch the evening - the first show? I have doubt.
From Mahalaxmi Race Course to Chakala, Andheri where Sangam Theatre was existed earlier (of late renamed the new complex as Carnival Cinemas), the distance is around 20+ kilometres. Four wheelers took around 1.30 hours to reach there at Sangam from Mahalaxmi those days. Feature races are regularly held at Mahalaxmi at 4.00 PM. They conducted two to three races after the feature event. At Mahalaxmi last race normally ends at 5.30 pm in winter or at 6 pm in March April. Evening shows at Mumbai (then Single Screen theatres) started at 6.00 pm or maximum by 6.30 pm. Can someone collect the dividends and reach Sangam Theatre before 6.30 to watch the evening - the first show? I have doubt.
Kolramsri said ...
13-Apr-2018
STV,chennai...Why we are here in a pathetic condition, where even place bets beyond our reach due to one Individuals obsession with Horse Racing. Go back to 1978, when Red Chieftain ( Smith up) lost to Enter the Red, during his absence, his full fury was let loose on hapless punters on 1979 Pongal Derby day, by allowing Red Chieftain to win over Own Opinion. Goldie Brown affair was the last straw, when Corner and Jagdish saw to it Sandy Barclay did not get a clear run, and forced him to raise an unsuccessful objection. After most of the Professionals deserted Guindy., Race Club become an extension of Chettinad Palace.He started raiding other clubs with his Cash Might, and the bettings started in Lacs to sustain such a large string. Now nothing can be done. You cannot expect punters to donate for the welfare of few endlessly, and the day is not far off when the shutters will be down permanently. Clubs will fall under its own weight.
Baskar said ...
13-Apr-2018
Hitting five in a row ( especially with a plwce wager in between) is not uncommon. But the difficult task is to wager all your winning amount on the next race. Imagine a better starting with a 3000 wager, wagering almost 3.5 lacs on the fifth race. I doubt the fourage of the punter. At the best he may be able to double up his starting wager. Like 1. 2.4. 8. 16. Or geometrical progression like 1 2 3 4 5. These are manageable..But rolling over is not. No one will have that much courage.
Stv,chennai said ...
13-Apr-2018
The thread opened by Chanakya,apart from some unfortunate frictions [in the discussions]has given rise to other interesting facts ,experiences and nostalgic memories as well.
Srinivas has written on 4\11]18 that in those days[say 80s and 90s]handicapping worked.Racing was handicapper's delight.Later on pitfalls like pulling,doping ,doosras etc came into play,they brought to fore all the ills associated with gambling.
Aswin Patel,whom we know as another experienced race goer has largely agreed with the views.
I concur with their views.
Yes,indeed racing was delight of handicappers.Results mostly worked out that way.Though I am unable to recount individual selections or bets,my mind goes back to the days I made awesome nominations in JP pool.On a particular day,in the first leg,only 3 runners were running and one was hot favourite at 60 p.My h.c.ping indicated that it would not win but a horse[Jan E Alam} ridden by Purtu Singh would win.I 'banked' that horse but lost the JP [either one ticket or c\o]in one leg.
Another day at the then Bombay,Inza[ridden by Shinde?]was hot favorite but I ignored it and in its place fixed Rose of Shiraz,ridden by that great jockey,Karl Umrigar.The later won the race.
The second leg in the first or second instance was Waha re Pyare.I mention this in the hope that Indian Turf Record would check up and correct me or help me out in recollecting the happenings correctly.
The third instance is that great c\o which paid around 60 lakhs to the lone winner.I had nominated runners in all pools correctly.The names of the winners are given for our benefit by ITR.
Taking that list for reference,I banked Descent Proposal for the only reason one of my friends was fully confident of its win on that day and backed an amount beyond his capacity.[I cannot take credit for h.c.ping here].I selected Name of Love as one of three possible winners in that race.On the third leg,I selected Noble Eagle as one of quite a few nominations but ultimately opted for selection of horses that ran 2000 and above and deleted NE.Fourth leg,Taragonna was my was my selection as a certain winner;I now take credit for my h.c.Last Leg,Gesundhiet,was almost joint favorite with another horse.I 'Banked the same and the horse won.I lost the chance of sharing that JP with the lone winner.
Apart from JPs,individual selections mostly worked out for good h.c pers those days.I remember the day when a FC or Qla on two horses Dark Diamond and Mohini paid me about 330\-
I have written of all these in H.T long back.I am writing now to reinforce the view that h.c worked those days.
to be cotd...
Srinivas has written on 4\11]18 that in those days[say 80s and 90s]handicapping worked.Racing was handicapper's delight.Later on pitfalls like pulling,doping ,doosras etc came into play,they brought to fore all the ills associated with gambling.
Aswin Patel,whom we know as another experienced race goer has largely agreed with the views.
I concur with their views.
Yes,indeed racing was delight of handicappers.Results mostly worked out that way.Though I am unable to recount individual selections or bets,my mind goes back to the days I made awesome nominations in JP pool.On a particular day,in the first leg,only 3 runners were running and one was hot favourite at 60 p.My h.c.ping indicated that it would not win but a horse[Jan E Alam} ridden by Purtu Singh would win.I 'banked' that horse but lost the JP [either one ticket or c\o]in one leg.
Another day at the then Bombay,Inza[ridden by Shinde?]was hot favorite but I ignored it and in its place fixed Rose of Shiraz,ridden by that great jockey,Karl Umrigar.The later won the race.
The second leg in the first or second instance was Waha re Pyare.I mention this in the hope that Indian Turf Record would check up and correct me or help me out in recollecting the happenings correctly.
The third instance is that great c\o which paid around 60 lakhs to the lone winner.I had nominated runners in all pools correctly.The names of the winners are given for our benefit by ITR.
Taking that list for reference,I banked Descent Proposal for the only reason one of my friends was fully confident of its win on that day and backed an amount beyond his capacity.[I cannot take credit for h.c.ping here].I selected Name of Love as one of three possible winners in that race.On the third leg,I selected Noble Eagle as one of quite a few nominations but ultimately opted for selection of horses that ran 2000 and above and deleted NE.Fourth leg,Taragonna was my was my selection as a certain winner;I now take credit for my h.c.Last Leg,Gesundhiet,was almost joint favorite with another horse.I 'Banked the same and the horse won.I lost the chance of sharing that JP with the lone winner.
Apart from JPs,individual selections mostly worked out for good h.c pers those days.I remember the day when a FC or Qla on two horses Dark Diamond and Mohini paid me about 330\-
I have written of all these in H.T long back.I am writing now to reinforce the view that h.c worked those days.
to be cotd...
Chanakya said ...
13-Apr-2018
@ KOlramsri,
Yes it was in 2003 when carried over and day's jackpot collection was more than 1.2crores...
I also invested 2400 in the jackpot but Noble Eagle was not in my selections and lost even the consolation; because I was not aware of Roman's numbers at that time...
Now I rarely buy JP tickets and concentrate only on win with bookmakers and not on tote...
Yes it was in 2003 when carried over and day's jackpot collection was more than 1.2crores...
I also invested 2400 in the jackpot but Noble Eagle was not in my selections and lost even the consolation; because I was not aware of Roman's numbers at that time...
Now I rarely buy JP tickets and concentrate only on win with bookmakers and not on tote...
Azim said ...
13-Apr-2018
@chanakya
Whatever the outcome of this thread who is right who is wrong only God knows but congrats for the greatest thread ever on horsetalk in my 4-5 years...
Whatever the outcome of this thread who is right who is wrong only God knows but congrats for the greatest thread ever on horsetalk in my 4-5 years...
Vishnu G said ...
13-Apr-2018
To one and all.
Make no mistake.Rajendra Krishna spent Rs 5000/ for his JP ticket as told to Tabassum on her show.
When the host asked RK as to how a JP is played he started explaining that the JP had 5 legs.Tabasum jokingly told ..how is it possible, when a horse has only four legs [period]
The later part of the explanation was edited out... courtesy.. DD..
Make no mistake.Rajendra Krishna spent Rs 5000/ for his JP ticket as told to Tabassum on her show.
When the host asked RK as to how a JP is played he started explaining that the JP had 5 legs.Tabasum jokingly told ..how is it possible, when a horse has only four legs [period]
The later part of the explanation was edited out... courtesy.. DD..
Esoterical said ...
13-Apr-2018
OK... Mr.. Azim sir... Me apko remaining mumbai season ka... Post karta Hu... Sir muje bhi Pata racing me koi shority nahi he.. Par me din ka loss Hua to dusre horse recover Kar ne k liye nahi jata.. Next day fresh start... I prove it.. Let's see tomorrow
Chanakya said ...
13-Apr-2018
azim,
you are having beginners luck...
try to ber consistent...
don't speak ,out of turn, to come out of dream/(s)...
establish yourself, before opening your...
@ ITR,
I, not alone but with 5 or 6 friends, did see a movie at SANGAM theatre or cinemahall, whatever you call it; after winning on Tudor jet... It was on a sultry july day and we paid only Rs. 2 as entry ticket- being from a PRIVILEDGED CLASS CALLED...???...
you are having beginners luck...
try to ber consistent...
don't speak ,out of turn, to come out of dream/(s)...
establish yourself, before opening your...
@ ITR,
I, not alone but with 5 or 6 friends, did see a movie at SANGAM theatre or cinemahall, whatever you call it; after winning on Tudor jet... It was on a sultry july day and we paid only Rs. 2 as entry ticket- being from a PRIVILEDGED CLASS CALLED...???...
Haresh Bhat said ...
13-Apr-2018
Whoever goes to betting on horses, 10% punters make profit,another 10% punters retain their capital and remaining 80% loose their money & go back home empty hand. Next racing day, they again bet on horse, expecting to recover the lost money and again loose. This repeats day after day through out the season.Once in a while they may pocket small amount as profit.
Kolramsri said ...
13-Apr-2018
Indian_Turf_Record....Thank you for the info.
Stv,chennai said ...
13-Apr-2018
@Kolramsri,
Yes,I agree that a good h.c .system is essential for success at racing;whether one can make millions is another question.
As you have advised,I also take the essence of the Topic.
At the same time,I cannot blame others for getting into some sort of arguments.They have their reasons for it.
As for the utility of h.c ,other writers have touched on the subject here as you can see.I hope to add to their discussions soon here.
thanks.
Yes,I agree that a good h.c .system is essential for success at racing;whether one can make millions is another question.
As you have advised,I also take the essence of the Topic.
At the same time,I cannot blame others for getting into some sort of arguments.They have their reasons for it.
As for the utility of h.c ,other writers have touched on the subject here as you can see.I hope to add to their discussions soon here.
thanks.
Indian_turf_record said ...
13-Apr-2018Some facts about big jackpots as given in Fonn's All India Racing Records. Of course, Fonn's do not give any details who won the jackpot.
Sunday, 19 Dec 1971 (Bombay)
1 winning ticket paid Rs. 48,73,533.
Winning horses:-
Lovely Lady (Yusuf Khan) (MK Jadhav) 8/1 Tote Rs. 43.50 (9 ran)
Victorious (Jagdish) (RR Byramji) 10/1 Tote Rs. 48 (12 ran)
Billionaire (Yusuf Khan) (DN Adenwalla) 18/1 Tote Rs. 103 (8 ran)
Umeed Inse (McGrath) (S.M. Shah) Evens favourite Tote Rs. 11.50 (17 ran)
Dick Mink (Purtu Singh) (S.M. Shah) 6/4 favourite Tote Rs. 15 (10 ran)
Sunday, 2 February 2003 (Mumbai)
1 winning ticket paid Rs. 64,08,171. Consolation jackpot 3 tickets Rs. 9,15,453
Winning horses:-
Decent Proposal (M Narredu) (Dr. Anil Kumar) 7/1 Tote Rs. 69 (10 ran)
Name of Love (Paul Eddery) (I.A. Sait) 5/1 Tote Rs. 63 (10 ran)
Noble Eagle (P Belose) (Vinayak) (50/1) Tote Rs. 899 (14 ran)
Tarragona (P. Kamlesh) (C.D. Katrak) 12/1 Tote Rs.386 (18 ran)
Gesundheit (Mansoor Khan) (S.S. Shah) 7/2 Tote Rs. 52 (17 ran)
Stv,chennai said ...
13-Apr-2018
@Raghavan,
You seem to have got the impression that I was trying to defend Chanakya.
I gave him the credit that was due to him.As for the question in what manner Chanakya had contributed to racing knowledge,I might inform you that he has written worthy articles on the Guest Column on subjects like PNR readings etc.They were of interest and utility to interested readers.
As I understood the nature of discussions\arguments here,they have arisen out of certain claims made by Chanakya of making a million on certain days.Hence,I advised him that ,instead of making such claims post race,he would do well to post his selections before races.
I might assure you that it was not my intention to take sides.
hope I am clear.
You seem to have got the impression that I was trying to defend Chanakya.
I gave him the credit that was due to him.As for the question in what manner Chanakya had contributed to racing knowledge,I might inform you that he has written worthy articles on the Guest Column on subjects like PNR readings etc.They were of interest and utility to interested readers.
As I understood the nature of discussions\arguments here,they have arisen out of certain claims made by Chanakya of making a million on certain days.Hence,I advised him that ,instead of making such claims post race,he would do well to post his selections before races.
I might assure you that it was not my intention to take sides.
hope I am clear.
Chanakya said ...
13-Apr-2018
@ Raghavan,
your 9/4/18 8:51PM,
In the last race he says h-no 1 was 8/1. And h-no-2 was 2/1. So he says that only 2 should be the choice.
2 was a joint favorite and was having next best rating than no. 2; while 1 was 8/1;
On the same analogy, in race no 1, H-no-1 was 7/1. And h-no-5 may be at 1.5 for place. Obviously he played h-no-5 for place and the roll bet would have crashed.
this is a supreme example
no. 1 is coming DOWN from higher class(class 4), has one of the best track, has placed second in previous run, is 'in the odds'etc. etc.; while no 5 is VB runner, never showed any improvement, no track work, etc. etc. ....
Chanakya said ...
13-Apr-2018
@ what to say,
you may be knowing RK but do not know racing of 70's...
first time when I went to Bombay race course in March 73, there were no punching in fist/members enclosure. a punter has to spell out card no. of runner of every race of jackpot and the window clerk will write down those number/(s) on a printed sheet, hand over original to the punter and keep carbon copy of their selections in the book which had serial numbers on top RHS of the book. Immediately after the first race of of JP started the books will be collected , sometimes snatched from the hands of the writer...
this system continued till 75 when punching machines came in existence at RWITC...
do not try to score odd points.....................
@ all
Betting on treble looked more funny! as a hindsight now I feel it was very good and beneficial to punter; because on every leg of the pool a punter had an option and a chance to check the odds and then decide to play...
a punter after watching the odds could go and ask 10 tickets on favorite's no, 5 tickets on second favorite and so on
after first leg is over and the punter had the tickets on the winner he can again go and distribute his tickets on the second leg and can do so on the 3rd. leg if he had tickets on second leg winners...
after few years RWITC discontinued this option/ facility...
you may be knowing RK but do not know racing of 70's...
first time when I went to Bombay race course in March 73, there were no punching in fist/members enclosure. a punter has to spell out card no. of runner of every race of jackpot and the window clerk will write down those number/(s) on a printed sheet, hand over original to the punter and keep carbon copy of their selections in the book which had serial numbers on top RHS of the book. Immediately after the first race of of JP started the books will be collected , sometimes snatched from the hands of the writer...
this system continued till 75 when punching machines came in existence at RWITC...
do not try to score odd points.....................
@ all
Betting on treble looked more funny! as a hindsight now I feel it was very good and beneficial to punter; because on every leg of the pool a punter had an option and a chance to check the odds and then decide to play...
a punter after watching the odds could go and ask 10 tickets on favorite's no, 5 tickets on second favorite and so on
after first leg is over and the punter had the tickets on the winner he can again go and distribute his tickets on the second leg and can do so on the 3rd. leg if he had tickets on second leg winners...
after few years RWITC discontinued this option/ facility...
Pds said ...
13-Apr-2018
Friend, We have digressed too much from the original topic initiated by Chanakya and their also the point of difference was his claim of the five horse roll which was questioned by many of our friends including me, because it had a number of flaws and was not possible to play it in that format and on those imaginary/ last moment odds. However, Chanakya has owned up that he is not claiming that he played that roll thus meaning that it was only a theoretical exercise, but fact is that he did give these choices before the Race and he deserves the credit for that except for the last race where he gave two choices.
Now the R K's bumper jackpot: In those days I was posted in Poona and was very much a regular Race goer. I clearly remember that it was in 1971 that the jackpot was carried fwd twice and it was the collection of three times for Bombay Races. We also made a syndicate to have a go at this big bumper collection of JP, but we could not make it. R.K got the jackpot on a single ticket which was tax free and this was the news of the Country.
Now, I suggest we change to some more useful topics of Racing for the general good. Best of luck for the complete fraternity. Horse Racing is a very tough nut to crack.
Now the R K's bumper jackpot: In those days I was posted in Poona and was very much a regular Race goer. I clearly remember that it was in 1971 that the jackpot was carried fwd twice and it was the collection of three times for Bombay Races. We also made a syndicate to have a go at this big bumper collection of JP, but we could not make it. R.K got the jackpot on a single ticket which was tax free and this was the news of the Country.
Now, I suggest we change to some more useful topics of Racing for the general good. Best of luck for the complete fraternity. Horse Racing is a very tough nut to crack.
Kolramsri said ...
13-Apr-2018
Chanakya... will you be able to provide details about 70 lacs payment on Single Ticket Jackpot. I stopped buying JP tickets from 1994, so no idea about JP.
Kolramsri said ...
13-Apr-2018
Request to Indian Turf Record.. Please refer your records of Bombay races during 1972-1973 season. i am sure R K got it during that period.
Kolramsri said ...
13-Apr-2018
Chanakya .. Now it comes to my mind. Yes Rajendra Krishan got the single ticket Jackpot sometime between Feb 1973 to April 1973...Bombay races. This was the subject of discussion i had with my wife, during Bangalore summer races of 1974.Marriage date 12.4.1974.Again all from memory.
Manish said ...
13-Apr-2018
@Chanakya,
i see that you post some sort of challenge that you will give winners in 3 races. Please post the details of it. I am willing to accept the challenge, and if you want, stakes can be higher too.
I will be in Mumbai tomorrow. If you agree for a challenge, i will be right there at mahalaxmi. Tell me, how to meet you and recognise you. Cash payment on the spot.
And by the way, you didnt answer to the query of ITR. Saddened that you have been proved a lier by facts.
And some how my gut feelings says that you will run away from this post and challenge too.
i see that you post some sort of challenge that you will give winners in 3 races. Please post the details of it. I am willing to accept the challenge, and if you want, stakes can be higher too.
I will be in Mumbai tomorrow. If you agree for a challenge, i will be right there at mahalaxmi. Tell me, how to meet you and recognise you. Cash payment on the spot.
And by the way, you didnt answer to the query of ITR. Saddened that you have been proved a lier by facts.
And some how my gut feelings says that you will run away from this post and challenge too.
Raghavan said ...
13-Apr-2018
Chanakya
Before the race only everybody gives selections. The very meaning of selections itself it is before races. After races no one will give selections. That much I am sure about all tipsters. After race no one will tell others bet on S-eddie or Glendbourne. So selections means before the races only.
What we are objecting to is the loose talks, non sense, bluffs, half truths, lies and boklahats that are flowing from your side after the races.
You say 3OOO roll after the race. In the roll you not included no-2 in the third race. Says that is not bettable. There is no explanation as to why are you tipping a horse that is not bettable. Then you claim 5/2 odds for a dashrath singh ridden 4th favorite. Then citing odds you say no-1 is dismissed in race no 6 and no-2 is picked.
It is only such grand lies we are questioning. We expect you to understand that in horsetalk, no one will believe your post race betting accounts. Give your proposed bets before the races. There is a big difference between selections before the race & proposed bets before the race.
So do not harp on the fact that you gave your selections BEFORE the races. If you give selections after the races people will call you fool.
After race betting details not acceptable. Even if such claims are from Sriramachandra.
Before the race only everybody gives selections. The very meaning of selections itself it is before races. After races no one will give selections. That much I am sure about all tipsters. After race no one will tell others bet on S-eddie or Glendbourne. So selections means before the races only.
What we are objecting to is the loose talks, non sense, bluffs, half truths, lies and boklahats that are flowing from your side after the races.
You say 3OOO roll after the race. In the roll you not included no-2 in the third race. Says that is not bettable. There is no explanation as to why are you tipping a horse that is not bettable. Then you claim 5/2 odds for a dashrath singh ridden 4th favorite. Then citing odds you say no-1 is dismissed in race no 6 and no-2 is picked.
It is only such grand lies we are questioning. We expect you to understand that in horsetalk, no one will believe your post race betting accounts. Give your proposed bets before the races. There is a big difference between selections before the race & proposed bets before the race.
So do not harp on the fact that you gave your selections BEFORE the races. If you give selections after the races people will call you fool.
After race betting details not acceptable. Even if such claims are from Sriramachandra.
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
@ kolramsri
Rajinder K won tax free 46lakh but few years back someone won 73 lakhs but has to pay 30% tax...
STV,
I HAVE ALWAYS POSTED MY SELECTIONS BEFORE THE RACE WAS RUN...
EVEN THEN SOME FOLKS DO NOT ACCEPT MY POINT ( CLAIM)...
what do i do?
Mad Max said ...
12-Apr-2018Little more on RK's Jackpot From my Memory...
I read one article about Rajendra Krishan around fifteen years back and and remember the following ;
RK was in Madras (present day Chennai, in AVM studios) in the year 1964 writing songs for KHANDAN (Released in 1965 and acted by Sunil Dutt and Nutan) directed by A Bhimsingh. He had to return to Mumbai for some urgent work. While he was in the flight, he met a guy, who was happened to be the owner of a horse that was running next day in Mumbai. They befriended and the south owner tipped his horse to RK as Banker. Since he got a perfect Banker he decided to visit RWITC next day to give an attempt on a three time carried over jackpot pool. It was his luck, he got another Banker on that day from another Mumbai owner. Since two bankers were in his kitty, RK just not wanted to miss the Booty that time, and nominated all other horses (Field) in the other three races.
To authenticate this story, no articles, or interviews or videos available on the web. Take it or reject it.
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
@ BSVPrasad,
Yes, It is difficult to win roll bet everytime... maybe one out of ten attempts may succeed, but the return compensates for the losses of nine failures - ONLY IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE A ROLL BET...
don't try it without proper study...
@ PDS, yor 12/4 12: 30 PM, and 5: 58 PM combined,
earlier you said I'm bluffing, so no question on one to one dialogue...
I never asked your bookies name ; you did ask me my bookies name...
my 5 bet roll is posted above and another one is available in the archives of this forum - first week of April 2016 another is available on Invitation day of Bangalore...
All were given BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN...
Yes, It is difficult to win roll bet everytime... maybe one out of ten attempts may succeed, but the return compensates for the losses of nine failures - ONLY IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE A ROLL BET...
don't try it without proper study...
@ PDS, yor 12/4 12: 30 PM, and 5: 58 PM combined,
earlier you said I'm bluffing, so no question on one to one dialogue...
I never asked your bookies name ; you did ask me my bookies name...
my 5 bet roll is posted above and another one is available in the archives of this forum - first week of April 2016 another is available on Invitation day of Bangalore...
All were given BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN...
Mad Max said ...
12-Apr-2018
I webcatched following article by the Niece of Rajendra Krishan - Vandaba K Mittal - published in literaryindia.com/Entertainment/Films/rajender-krishan-lyricist-film-writer-vandana.html, but removed from the web later.
Same article is available on following links
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qnDZ-I__C5MJ:literaryindia.com/Entertainment/Films/rajender-krishan-lyricist-film-writer-vandana.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
Wherein the niece said RK won 49 lakhs Tax Free jackpot in the late sixties. So whom to believe, Wikipedia or Vandana K Mittal ?
--------------
Times of India published an article wherein RK won the Jackpot of Rs 46 lakhs in 1083.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/others/Horse-racing-Lure-of-the-jackpot/articleshow/7393862.cms
--------------
Very Interesting one of our old Horse talker - KVB Sankara Rao - once commented in Horse Talk that he was witness at Mahalaxmi when RK won the Rs 48 Lakh jackpot.
--------
See his comments below: He made this comments in an article " Will ever an Indian punter win a jackpot worth Rs 50 lakhs, dated March 25, 2013, by Vijay-2.
------------------
KVB Sankara Rao said ... On : 3/27/2013 6:13:38 PM
The jackpot won by Rajinder Krishan was only Rs. 48/lakhs tax-free.I was there at the race course on that day.The story goes like this.Krishan after winning the pot donated a large sum to a charity.There was an inquiry by the Income-tax people about the source of his income.This is incident which led to the imposition tax on the winnings in the race course through punting.About other type of winnings in the race course I have no knowledge. He added - When Krishan won the pot of 48/lakhs there was only Sunday racing and also there was no tax on winnings
THEN TELL ME WHO WAS RIGHT ?
Same article is available on following links
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qnDZ-I__C5MJ:literaryindia.com/Entertainment/Films/rajender-krishan-lyricist-film-writer-vandana.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
Wherein the niece said RK won 49 lakhs Tax Free jackpot in the late sixties. So whom to believe, Wikipedia or Vandana K Mittal ?
--------------
Times of India published an article wherein RK won the Jackpot of Rs 46 lakhs in 1083.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/others/Horse-racing-Lure-of-the-jackpot/articleshow/7393862.cms
--------------
Very Interesting one of our old Horse talker - KVB Sankara Rao - once commented in Horse Talk that he was witness at Mahalaxmi when RK won the Rs 48 Lakh jackpot.
--------
See his comments below: He made this comments in an article " Will ever an Indian punter win a jackpot worth Rs 50 lakhs, dated March 25, 2013, by Vijay-2.
------------------
KVB Sankara Rao said ... On : 3/27/2013 6:13:38 PM
The jackpot won by Rajinder Krishan was only Rs. 48/lakhs tax-free.I was there at the race course on that day.The story goes like this.Krishan after winning the pot donated a large sum to a charity.There was an inquiry by the Income-tax people about the source of his income.This is incident which led to the imposition tax on the winnings in the race course through punting.About other type of winnings in the race course I have no knowledge. He added - When Krishan won the pot of 48/lakhs there was only Sunday racing and also there was no tax on winnings
THEN TELL ME WHO WAS RIGHT ?
Buddy said ...
12-Apr-2018
R.K - bought the jackpot ticket says Chanakya its possible people/bookies used to buy JP tkts -but knowing or not knowing of JP tkts being sold does not matter when you go to gamble - no connection with knowledge of racing or wagering!
Kolramsri said ...
12-Apr-2018
STV ,chennai. A good handicapping system can make a punter millionaire , is the subject, and let us not go further.You might have heard about certain faceless syndicates making money in Australian racing , not millions but Billions, and at one stage , Income tax authorities caught hold of them and took the case to the Court. Court advised out of court settlement. Also about Zeljko Ranogajec, you can read in Wikipedia. This is to bring here ,that punters making money regularly,elsewhere.
Raghavan said ...
12-Apr-2018
@STV Chennai,
You believe Chanakya, that is your right. I do not believe him. It is my right.
Perhaps you may be inclined in defending the beleaguered tipster. You may or may not believe me. There are many fans of Chanakya who were simply applauding whatever he writes and advised/requested me to stop bashing him. But they had no heart to advise Chanakya to stop his lies and bluffs.
And Chanakya tried to brow beat me into silence by attacking me personally and indulging in badmouthing. I treated 'badmouthing part' with total indifference.
I do not know what you mean by "Chanakya tries to enlighten others on the aspects of successful racing". So, please state briefly what those enlightened articles are and what they taught you.
Chanakya was ready for my dissent note. But, he was not ready for so many people questioning his claim. Just see. He is invoking those rare jackpot winners in support of his claim that he made million.
I have demolished his roll claim. Earlier, I demolished his claim of one million gain by laying favorites. I am ready to stop all negative postings in respect of Chanakya and offer unqualified apology, if anyone proves that he made one million from 22OO start bet. Horse's names are there. Bookies odds are there. Only requirement is 1O line calculation sheet. Not the bundlebaaz of Chanakya. Independent calculations.
The most laughable part was, in his claim of laying favorites, he mentioned 2 bets after 5 pm, when the races in question were over by 4 pm.
In the current episode, was there any need to open a separate thread and tom tom about his fictitious roll bet? If there is no post from him, there would not have been so many hooting and catcalls.
Vishnu G said ...
12-Apr-2018
To one and all.
Make no mistake.Rajendra Krishna spent Rs 5000/ for his JP ticket as told to Tabassum on her show..Those days a flat at Grand Paradi [Cumballa Hill] costed Rs 1.25 lacs..
Make no mistake.Rajendra Krishna spent Rs 5000/ for his JP ticket as told to Tabassum on her show..Those days a flat at Grand Paradi [Cumballa Hill] costed Rs 1.25 lacs..
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
Raghavan, your 12/4 10:45AM,
I have never seen a more imaginative, totally wrong 'analysis', and makes me wonder how could a person survive so long in a menial job and be lucky enough to retire...
the 'great analyst' stats with last race not the first one, seems have come from 'down under' where everything is 'ulta'...
Never reads what some one has written- '1/2 anyone can win' were the words; but the great analyst thinks that I should bet on 8/1 chance rather than 2/1 second favorite because in his opinion - K. Nazil an appretice is better than the champion Trevor! what a discovery!!!
Now look at race no 1. odds are 7/1, tote win is 53/- place is 11/- & play place at this ratio.RWITc rules say that in a race if favorite is more than 'even' or more a punter has the RIGHT to demand 1/4th. of the win odds...
Another great discovery or should I call it an 'invention'? The great analyst want me to bet a place at 1.5 on ( no 5 in race no 1)who is at 12-15/1 but not at my choice which gives me 7/1 profit!!!
Should I send 'his' name for a special Nobel prize or ask a lunatic asylum to keep a vacant seat for him - some of the reader can advice...
I'm not interested your cheer, acceptance or any other reward - which I said earlier, can not buy me even a cup of tea...
I write here to prove a point that a good handicapping system can always make a punter win races and make money and that as been proved. Q.E.D.
SFP,
.. Rajinder Kishan won JP in ealy part of 70's in 1971/72 and not not in 55-58...
Indian_turf_record said ...
12-Apr-2018Chanakya's post 4/11/2018 9:52:18 PM
The movie SANGAM was released in 1964 Tudor Jet won the Derby at Bangalore in 1967. Did Sangam run for over three years in Bangalore as a regular 6.00/6.30 show ?
Esoterical said ...
12-Apr-2018
Mr. Azim sir... Muje Pata he 1 lakh ka different he... Part Mera 1 month ka 2lakh 34k Hua second month 2 lakh 78k Hua.. To kya me apko Har month ka hisab du..or sir profit and loss Mera he.. Me apko hisab du hi Kyu... Vese bhi Mr. Azim sir.. Me race bohot Kam khelta hi... 1 ha 2 race per day vo enough he mere liye..
Pds said ...
12-Apr-2018
Mad Max, You can never be a winner in Indian Horse Racing by betting on tote. I cant imagine how an experienced Race goer like you can ever hope to be an over all winner in Races especially after GST. If you are Bangalore based, you have to go to Mysore, other wise cool it for some time till the situ. improves on GST and Bookies. Betting on Horse Racing is all mathematics, Your tote betting in Bangalore is a sure loser from the start itself.
Raghavan said ...
12-Apr-2018
@Chanakya,
Rajinder Krishna won jackpot. 46OOOOO. This much I read in wikipedia.
The 2nd thing. He died during 1987. After 3O years of his death you are speaking something rotten in respect of Rajinder Krishna. I do not believe what you say in this regard.
Rajinder Krishna won jackpot. 46OOOOO. This much I read in wikipedia.
The 2nd thing. He died during 1987. After 3O years of his death you are speaking something rotten in respect of Rajinder Krishna. I do not believe what you say in this regard.
Pds said ...
12-Apr-2018
Chanakya, Previously you were bluffing and now it is talking through the hat. You ask me the names of my Bookies and I will give you six Bookies, they are all licensed Bookies and have good record. Any way there is no point of any discussions, we are on different grids. Good luck to you with your big rolls.
Mad Max said ...
12-Apr-2018
My major investments are in Jackpots only.
In spite of having struck JP seven times in the last year (year ended 31.03.2018), including one JP amounting to Rs 2.13 Lakhs on 15th Feb 2018, I say I am not in plus.
My Win/SHP/Place bets are 35:15:50 basis only. At majority of times such bets are not profitable if you get only one pay out. Will get more than average profit if we get two pay outs. After the GST introduction I find these type of bets are not profitable on tote.
I dont know who is making money from horse racing.
Even if you get three winners a day and one loss, you cannot make a face saving exit from race course due to meagre dividends.
Then tell me who are the winners?
In spite of having struck JP seven times in the last year (year ended 31.03.2018), including one JP amounting to Rs 2.13 Lakhs on 15th Feb 2018, I say I am not in plus.
My Win/SHP/Place bets are 35:15:50 basis only. At majority of times such bets are not profitable if you get only one pay out. Will get more than average profit if we get two pay outs. After the GST introduction I find these type of bets are not profitable on tote.
I dont know who is making money from horse racing.
Even if you get three winners a day and one loss, you cannot make a face saving exit from race course due to meagre dividends.
Then tell me who are the winners?
Crk said ...
12-Apr-2018@ All,
There are 6 race days remaining of RWTIC, Mumbai. A keen and wise blogger in this forum and there are quite a few here surely must have a shortlisted a few horses to follow before the closure of this season. Will it not be more useful to start such a thread rather than the present one, where EGO BASHING seems to be the name of the game ? Serves no purpose whatsoever...
Just a thought.
What To Say said ...
12-Apr-2018
What to say about a man and his "numbers" who doesn't mind bluffing when he is not sure of the facts?
If seniority is to be worshiped, every stone on this earth should receive one garland each.
Anyway, let me "correct" the old man's numbers about Rajendra Krishna whom I knew personally, and who many years ago had talked about his great luck on the show "Phool Khile Hain Gulshan Gulshan" conducted by TV hostess Tabassum of yesteryear.
He had won Rs 48 lakh in 1971, and there was no income tax on winnings from races at that time. He had invested slightly over Rs 6,000 (that means slightly more than 600 tickets of Rs 10 each). Also, please note that in those days the tickets needed to be "punched", in the sense holes were made on the ticket.
If seniority is to be worshiped, every stone on this earth should receive one garland each.
Anyway, let me "correct" the old man's numbers about Rajendra Krishna whom I knew personally, and who many years ago had talked about his great luck on the show "Phool Khile Hain Gulshan Gulshan" conducted by TV hostess Tabassum of yesteryear.
He had won Rs 48 lakh in 1971, and there was no income tax on winnings from races at that time. He had invested slightly over Rs 6,000 (that means slightly more than 600 tickets of Rs 10 each). Also, please note that in those days the tickets needed to be "punched", in the sense holes were made on the ticket.
Azim said ...
12-Apr-2018
This thread is going on and on and on becoz chanakya feel's he is earning from horse racing..don't know how? ?a big question mark...
@esoterical
Bhai utna hi jhoot bolo Jitna hazam ho sake aap 2-3 lakh kama lete ho ye joke hai aur kuch nahi ..2 aur 3 me 1 lakh ka difference hai mere bhai.1 lakh matlab 10000..
@madmax.
Who told u m earning from horse racing yes I love my family and kid so much and I m mad for horse racing..but I don't earn from horse racing..and I think coming in horse racing is biggest mistake of my life so far...my life would be far good and focus without horse racing but I m unlucky that I came into this DALDAL.
Many here are witness my selections sometime I hit 8 out of 8 in kolkatta and many times my strike rate is more than 60%..many of seniors appreciated me when I hit 8 out of 8 in kolkatta like ramyier sir,bkd sir ,skumar sir etc..I hit 16 winners in invitation weekend(thread is still available)Mr chanakya so I should claim I have earn crores in 2 days..
One of my follower alen d stated he is earning from my selections he quoted he got the jackpot ones of 24000...
But fact is that I don't earn from horse racing I m relatively new I have been in racing from maybe 2014 after invitation scandal when besafe beaten by quasar I was not in racing circuit and when be safe ran next time in bangalore in 1600m @45paisa and won in the hands of sandesh that was my first week in horse racing.. so I m not that much old in racing..I have learn a lot I spent my days and night in studying I was mad about how to find winners and all .I kept almost all record in my mind only when this horse ran last time how he ran last time and all...
Inshot horse racing has ruined my life and many other's here..I m brave enough to accept this in open forum may be many of here are not that much brave..
Punters always lives in fantasy world which is never achievable..once in decade someone got jackpot it doesn't means everyone is that much lucky...
Come out of dreams who still think they can earn 10.5lakh on 3000 roll on 5 horses in one day it's just a big lie...
Now many of here will bark on Me I m ready to accept the challenge..
Regard's
Azim
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
Raghavan,
you never knew or know what racing is...
Rajinder krishan did not win the jackpot; he paid to buy the ticket because those days winnings from racing WERE NOT TAXED. Means no tax on your income from race betting!!!
you COULD convert your black money to white, from earnings from racing...
Rajinder krishan shouted from rooftop that he has won 60 lakhs+ because he does not have to pat any tax on it. The person who won 70+ lakhs in earlypart of this century kept quiet because people like you will question - how much you invest, how many times you have won; are you a regular winner or once in a while type, etc.,...
the poor fellow will never come near to these, so called humble but really crook, question mongers; who KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RACING - I MEAN - HORSE RACING...
Momin said ...
12-Apr-2018@. All
Just check Chanakya postings and ODDS.’you will realise his game. He chooses
from JODI and this time his selections paid. A simple approach. Not this time, but
Whenever he posts watch odds of his selection.’you will know his tactics. This Jodi
paid his selection. Go through his previous postings and match them with odds.
You will realise his TRICKS
Momin
Pradeep said ...
12-Apr-2018
Fruitless debate where everybody is splashing his- Pearls Of Wisdom?
Maybe till declarations are out for Saturday Mumbai races.
& BTW declarations are out on RWITC site.
Maybe till declarations are out for Saturday Mumbai races.
& BTW declarations are out on RWITC site.
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
STOPFOOLINGPUNTER,
YOU ARE NOT A PUNTER.... Show where regularly or occasionally you have posted your tips and made money(?) or even BROKEN EVEN...
There was no numbers theory- if it was -reproduce...
Astrological predictions did work...I'll put 20,000/50,000/100,000; you also put the same amount. If my selections 20/50/100 FAIL you take the money, but if they give positive return you lose...
Risk hard cash to risk your claim...
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
mahie,
Abhay has given 11 straight tips, I accept. I'll not go like a'leech' on this site,and without doubt, agree to your info in totality.
but there is a difference between him and me.
He gives the tips and never claims to bet on it; I post my selections and CLAIM
that I bet on my selections to make money. Giving tips is his hobby, making money FROM MY SELECTIONS is my hobby...
OK., Let me reply to your query.
In race ONE my choice was S. Eddie(7/1 odds). I bet on S.Eddie and won. I did not PICK; first, second and third favorite because they were one class below in my FINAL HANDCAPPING SYSTEM but you DON'T QUESTION WHY?
In last race- no. 1 was at 8/1 while no. 2 was 2/1... In my rating system both were having equal merit - no 1 ( 354) ,no 2 (350) was the rating . no1 was at 8/1 and no. 2 was at 2/1- was second favorite and not the first favorite - which was Question...
will anybody who has a little common sense left, and the movements of odds available will bet on rising odds or failing odds which are making a runner favorite...
I'll not do that but I'm not sure about you
Stv,chennai said ...
12-Apr-2018
Chanakya always tries to enlighten others on the aspects of successful racing.It is for individual punter to heed to the advise or not.In other words they may be worthy or not in the opinion of each individual.Of course Chanakya does not insist anyone to follow his methods:for that matter ,no one can do that.No Problem.
The problem arises when Chanakya makes tall claims of making millions on a few days.Others find it difficult to digest.It is not practical to demand proof of the claims:hence,alternatively,others ask him to post his selections before race time.Quite understandable.
The problem arises when Chanakya makes tall claims of making millions on a few days.Others find it difficult to digest.It is not practical to demand proof of the claims:hence,alternatively,others ask him to post his selections before race time.Quite understandable.
Kolramsri said ...
12-Apr-2018
Chanakya ... Re.. Rajendra Krishan.. He got a pay out on a single Jackpot ticket more than 46 Lacs but below 47 Lacs. In india we yet to hear single JP payout more than 50 Lacs. I think He got the JP sometime between 1974 to 1977. All from memory only.
Pds said ...
12-Apr-2018
Chanakya, The way you are fighting with every one, I would not like to be part of this discussion and partake in this exercise of mud slinging. Wishing you good luck, I hope you will some day play a successful roll of FIVE horses of your choice. I will be the first person to congratulate you. Good luck to all.
B.v.s.prasad said ...
12-Apr-2018
i also very much intrested in roll bets but 2hrs r 3hrs roll bet is ok, 4hrs & 5hrs roll bet is very difficult once in a blue moon it will oblige in entire my 40yrs race career i got once 4hrs roll & kainchi my advice dont go above 3hrs roll r kainchi
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
12-Apr-2018
R Krishna case was some where between 1955 and 1958.
One case in 60 yrs that is all. others always divided with few times around 4 t o 6 lakhs.to one odd insider
My point is if so confident why did he not opt for a J/P tickets.on this day?
Sat open challenge to him give only 50% winners [names please]
One case in 60 yrs that is all. others always divided with few times around 4 t o 6 lakhs.to one odd insider
My point is if so confident why did he not opt for a J/P tickets.on this day?
Sat open challenge to him give only 50% winners [names please]
Chanakya said ...
12-Apr-2018
@ Srinivas,
I wouldn't have written this to you if you had some honesty and decency to make your point.
You claim to racing since 70's but n o nothing about it. Aslam Kader was sent out in that golden period as well as B.Prakash who pulled the favorite in a 2 horse field...
In 90/91 there were 18 cases registered against Bombay ( Mumbai)trainers for doping etc which were detected on 200+ samples, while much more than 600+ samples sent by Bangalore, Madras,Hyderabad were found 'clean'...
Why?
Bombay samples were sent to forensic labs 'outside India"; while samples of other centers were tested in 'Indian Laboratories!!'
The magzine where these ant other details are published is still with me...
Inabilty to develop a successful system gives you neither a right to point finger at other successful punters and shows that you are literally a bigger liar because you can't see that out of 10 selections( on 7/8 April 18) 8 of my selections were successful giving a 80% success rate...
I wouldn't have written this to you if you had some honesty and decency to make your point.
You claim to racing since 70's but n o nothing about it. Aslam Kader was sent out in that golden period as well as B.Prakash who pulled the favorite in a 2 horse field...
In 90/91 there were 18 cases registered against Bombay ( Mumbai)trainers for doping etc which were detected on 200+ samples, while much more than 600+ samples sent by Bangalore, Madras,Hyderabad were found 'clean'...
Why?
Bombay samples were sent to forensic labs 'outside India"; while samples of other centers were tested in 'Indian Laboratories!!'
The magzine where these ant other details are published is still with me...
Inabilty to develop a successful system gives you neither a right to point finger at other successful punters and shows that you are literally a bigger liar because you can't see that out of 10 selections( on 7/8 April 18) 8 of my selections were successful giving a 80% success rate...
Raghavan said ...
12-Apr-2018
@chanakya
Rajinder Krishnan died 3O years ago. He cracked the jackpot. A very very big jackpot. My guess he might have invested more than 8OOO or more than 9OOO. At least two legs he might have nominated the entire field.
We are pleased to learn about such robust and dynamic performances from rajendra krishna. A great demonstration of ability to take risk and be suitably rewarded. If at all a monument be put up in honour of punter, it is one and only for Rajinder Krishna.
In your case also we clap and clap in rapturous frenzy. It is your victory only regarding the money involved. As far as joy is concerned, it is everybody's pleasure. Just win a jackpot at least 5O% of what Rajinder krishan won. Before that you convey in this site your proposed jp combination.
Here I openly say why we do not accept the so called roll bet from you after the race.
In race no 6, if h-no-1 won, then your statement would be h-no-1 higher odds. So, my pick. You might even say this was your fancy right from the day you saw the name in handicap stage. But h-no-2 won, and you conveniently changed the plate. If h-no-9 had won, you would have said "after winning 4 races am I a fool to bet in 5th race"?
Now race no 4 and 5 won by even money favorites. Not much to crow about.
Now come to race no 3. H-no-2 was your tip followed by 1OO question mark. It did not win. Had it won, that would have been your firm selection. Because whichever way you looked, h-no-2 was the only bettable horse. So you ignored the question mark and said "risk taking is my birthright".
Now race no 2. Here you said no-5 for place. It placed. I do not know exactly. But I know very well that it could not be at odds 5/2. In this 8 horse race it is 4th favorite and Mumbai bookies at best would have given 5/4 for place.
Now race no 1. Spontaneous eddie you had tipped. Thank God it won. So, for you it was a good beginning bet. A small doubt. How or why you totally ignored no-5 for place? No-5 for place would have been 1.5 whereas S-eddie was at 7/1.
So we are not interested in hearing your bundle baaz. Dont invoke rajendra krishna and others to claim that you are as good as or even better than rajinder krishna. We are not even bachchas in front of him. We are liliputs. Here 'we' includes raghavan, chanakya etc.
So, your dream roll bet has to satisfy on all the points I have raised. Some even questioned the name of the bookie to cross check your story. So, before writing any non sense in this site think of the demands horse talk members make. Horsetalk members are not narrow minded. They certainly cheer a genuine winner.
Whoelse01 said ...
12-Apr-2018
Respected all,
I don't find a fault with an expression of view by anyone, be it senior like Chanakya or someone fresh. But it must be admitted that experience has its value, and more so in horse racing.
When I started watching racing from sometime 2003 onwards, handicappers had more strike rate than now. I feel that strike rate of myself has come down if you consider pre-determined selections. But it still works only if you have total confidence in yourself and stick to your selection. Owners like MAM, Khaitan and Mallya have disappeared and factors like GST have affected racing too.
Practically, rolling is a very difficult thing to implement. Then, it is a case of ultimate shortage of money. A roll bet of 'five' is too far-fetched. It is an attempt similar to hitting the jackpot. If such is the strike rate, why a roll bet? Better go for equal amount betting.
These are my views. Everyone is entitled for that.
whoelse01/chetak
I don't find a fault with an expression of view by anyone, be it senior like Chanakya or someone fresh. But it must be admitted that experience has its value, and more so in horse racing.
When I started watching racing from sometime 2003 onwards, handicappers had more strike rate than now. I feel that strike rate of myself has come down if you consider pre-determined selections. But it still works only if you have total confidence in yourself and stick to your selection. Owners like MAM, Khaitan and Mallya have disappeared and factors like GST have affected racing too.
Practically, rolling is a very difficult thing to implement. Then, it is a case of ultimate shortage of money. A roll bet of 'five' is too far-fetched. It is an attempt similar to hitting the jackpot. If such is the strike rate, why a roll bet? Better go for equal amount betting.
These are my views. Everyone is entitled for that.
whoelse01/chetak
Mad Max said ...
12-Apr-2018
@ Srinivas
Your views and opinions on present day horse racing is apt and correct and no one can make money from this game. It is total loss - total ruin - for the punters and their family. If anyone claim they are making money, they lost their mental balance. These losers are still living on dreams some day they will make it. Horse racing punters are isolated from their family and enjoy no respect from their beloved ones. Just visit any Race course Ring and pick 10 to 25 punters of your choice and ask them whether they are married or having a family ? I have done such a survey some time back. It is sad younger generation is following the previous generation and ruining their life.
In the middle, I admit there are some family men, who love their family and kids, and also love their racing life. They are in numbers, like Chanakya, KRK Nath, Ram Iyer, Aswin Patel, SFP, Godzilla, Srinivas, Raghavan, Mahie, Azim, etc. I missed some of their names here.
Hard Fact is GAMBLING in HORSE RACING is a 100% losing business.
Your views and opinions on present day horse racing is apt and correct and no one can make money from this game. It is total loss - total ruin - for the punters and their family. If anyone claim they are making money, they lost their mental balance. These losers are still living on dreams some day they will make it. Horse racing punters are isolated from their family and enjoy no respect from their beloved ones. Just visit any Race course Ring and pick 10 to 25 punters of your choice and ask them whether they are married or having a family ? I have done such a survey some time back. It is sad younger generation is following the previous generation and ruining their life.
In the middle, I admit there are some family men, who love their family and kids, and also love their racing life. They are in numbers, like Chanakya, KRK Nath, Ram Iyer, Aswin Patel, SFP, Godzilla, Srinivas, Raghavan, Mahie, Azim, etc. I missed some of their names here.
Hard Fact is GAMBLING in HORSE RACING is a 100% losing business.
Sun said ...
11-Apr-2018
Dear All,
In all this discussion people have forgotten the offer made by Chanakya Ji.Can some computer savvy person advise me whether I should accept his offer under the following assumptions.
1.His success rate is 40% for Win and 55% for Win OR Shp
2.Playing on Tote as Shp is not there with bookies.
3.Bet amount Rs 1000 for both Win and Shp
4.Sequence of no success is not more than 3 ie consecutively there can be 3 races where his selection has neither Won nor Shp
What should be the Dividends for me to be in profit over a 100 race period.
Hope definition of the problem is complete.
Thanks
In all this discussion people have forgotten the offer made by Chanakya Ji.Can some computer savvy person advise me whether I should accept his offer under the following assumptions.
1.His success rate is 40% for Win and 55% for Win OR Shp
2.Playing on Tote as Shp is not there with bookies.
3.Bet amount Rs 1000 for both Win and Shp
4.Sequence of no success is not more than 3 ie consecutively there can be 3 races where his selection has neither Won nor Shp
What should be the Dividends for me to be in profit over a 100 race period.
Hope definition of the problem is complete.
Thanks
Raghavan said ...
11-Apr-2018
@ Godzilla,
"No point in attacking Godzilla". Right. No one is attacking him personally.
He speaks of making million in race course. I know it is impossible. I am only pointing out the contradictions in his statements.
"What is wrong in his statement that a roll bet of right horses on 5 horses will give 1O.4 lakhs?"
As gar as calculations are concerned, absolutely no problem. But, a man of Chanakya's stature should understand that such calculations are known to all punters. Let him speak of something different than millions.
All lies, bundle baaz. Earlier he spoke of making million from 2OOO start bet by laying the favorites. And when I persistently questioned him, he came with a calculation sheet which were totally laughable. Then came his astrological method. Thank God, it died even before birth. Now comes the roll bet. As if he is the only master who knows it. Let him understand that even the doors and pillars in race course know that.
You are telling that his selections are always good. In that case, tell me whose elections are bad. I saw his selections in the last 5 race days. I can give only 'below average' grade for that. In any case, I am not seeing his selections regularly. 1 day of Kolkata races and 4 days of Bombay races he has tipped. Not very impressive.
Seniority is not at all relevant. You are senior. I am senior. Does that mean no one should question we two. If anyone questions us, the reply should be commensurate with our seniority. Badmouthing should be always avoided.
"No point in attacking Godzilla". Right. No one is attacking him personally.
He speaks of making million in race course. I know it is impossible. I am only pointing out the contradictions in his statements.
"What is wrong in his statement that a roll bet of right horses on 5 horses will give 1O.4 lakhs?"
As gar as calculations are concerned, absolutely no problem. But, a man of Chanakya's stature should understand that such calculations are known to all punters. Let him speak of something different than millions.
All lies, bundle baaz. Earlier he spoke of making million from 2OOO start bet by laying the favorites. And when I persistently questioned him, he came with a calculation sheet which were totally laughable. Then came his astrological method. Thank God, it died even before birth. Now comes the roll bet. As if he is the only master who knows it. Let him understand that even the doors and pillars in race course know that.
You are telling that his selections are always good. In that case, tell me whose elections are bad. I saw his selections in the last 5 race days. I can give only 'below average' grade for that. In any case, I am not seeing his selections regularly. 1 day of Kolkata races and 4 days of Bombay races he has tipped. Not very impressive.
Seniority is not at all relevant. You are senior. I am senior. Does that mean no one should question we two. If anyone questions us, the reply should be commensurate with our seniority. Badmouthing should be always avoided.
Chanakya said ...
11-Apr-2018
Azim,SFP and their fraternity..............................
What do you mean by theoretical. Don’t you know that Rajinder krishan- song writer; won more than 60 lakhs – tax free,from five races called jackpot?
How much did he invest- do you know?
In another case when someone won 70 lakhs + from another 5 races- why were you mum...
Learn handicapping and stop paying to club/bookies- my advice??????????
PDS: your 10/4 :::::: 2:17PM,
When I entered a racecourse , I did not know what horse racing is. We, a group of youngsters wanted to ‘ while away’ 2 or 3 hours before watching our movie at ‘Sangam’ in the evening show; we went to closeby raecourse and it was a Derby day. We loked at a horse and bet on win and found that we have won more than Rs. 1000.
The name of the winner was Tudor Jet...
Watched movie called Sangam; went to HBI with friends, which was recently(that time) opened, watched a cabaret; had a dinner...
And got hooked to horse racing...
you can never be senior to me...
Your asking the name of bookie – exposes your immaturity...
One advice- read what you write before posting...
What do you mean by theoretical. Don’t you know that Rajinder krishan- song writer; won more than 60 lakhs – tax free,from five races called jackpot?
How much did he invest- do you know?
In another case when someone won 70 lakhs + from another 5 races- why were you mum...
Learn handicapping and stop paying to club/bookies- my advice??????????
PDS: your 10/4 :::::: 2:17PM,
When I entered a racecourse , I did not know what horse racing is. We, a group of youngsters wanted to ‘ while away’ 2 or 3 hours before watching our movie at ‘Sangam’ in the evening show; we went to closeby raecourse and it was a Derby day. We loked at a horse and bet on win and found that we have won more than Rs. 1000.
The name of the winner was Tudor Jet...
Watched movie called Sangam; went to HBI with friends, which was recently(that time) opened, watched a cabaret; had a dinner...
And got hooked to horse racing...
you can never be senior to me...
Your asking the name of bookie – exposes your immaturity...
One advice- read what you write before posting...
Aswin Patel said ...
11-Apr-2018
Srinivas.
You stated correctly, that pure handicapping worked in the 70's , I can not vouch for the 90's but until early 80'S when I still indulged in racing it was working and as you put it to the T .
Now , with the internet , I am able to indulge in the SPORT again, there has been a great reduction in the strike rate , that cannot be helped as you have no control over the doings of others, however if you are astute and HAVE PATIENCE, you will be able to score an occasional winner at relishing odds.
I have refined my manner of selections and betting , I now Lay as well as play , the LAY is more remunerative than the play for obvious reasons and that is what helps me keep my head over water.
Now a days I factor in a lot of other attributes to my selections and need to invest much more time.I am not saying I mint money but at times the losses incurred are sustainable.
The betting tax INCREASE has also a lot to do with the ultimate result, gone were the days when the evening drink and dinner was funded by the racecourse, now I am happy if I can get a Paan and cigarette.
If you keep an eye on Odds , the condition of the horse and the paddock looks it definitely helps. Previously you did not need to even go to the racecourse , the horses were kept fit, Name , fame and stakes were the target of the owners.
The only thing that has not changed are the number of people who think that it is easy money and they can reap rich results without putting in enough efforts.
It is after a long time that I have found someone with similar experiences and outlooks. Your name suggests that you could be from South India hopefully from Hyderabad where hail come from ( ignore my last name ) if that is true it will be Sone pe suhaga ( as it is called ).
Chanakya or MR Kaushika if he is the same gentleman I have known for the past 15 years is a serious student of racing, I do meet him at the Bombay Derby every year and as such I can say that he has a genuine passion for racing, I have seen his zeal and efforts to find the missing link to for the ultimate system for isolating winners. I can only wish him luck
You stated correctly, that pure handicapping worked in the 70's , I can not vouch for the 90's but until early 80'S when I still indulged in racing it was working and as you put it to the T .
Now , with the internet , I am able to indulge in the SPORT again, there has been a great reduction in the strike rate , that cannot be helped as you have no control over the doings of others, however if you are astute and HAVE PATIENCE, you will be able to score an occasional winner at relishing odds.
I have refined my manner of selections and betting , I now Lay as well as play , the LAY is more remunerative than the play for obvious reasons and that is what helps me keep my head over water.
Now a days I factor in a lot of other attributes to my selections and need to invest much more time.I am not saying I mint money but at times the losses incurred are sustainable.
The betting tax INCREASE has also a lot to do with the ultimate result, gone were the days when the evening drink and dinner was funded by the racecourse, now I am happy if I can get a Paan and cigarette.
If you keep an eye on Odds , the condition of the horse and the paddock looks it definitely helps. Previously you did not need to even go to the racecourse , the horses were kept fit, Name , fame and stakes were the target of the owners.
The only thing that has not changed are the number of people who think that it is easy money and they can reap rich results without putting in enough efforts.
It is after a long time that I have found someone with similar experiences and outlooks. Your name suggests that you could be from South India hopefully from Hyderabad where hail come from ( ignore my last name ) if that is true it will be Sone pe suhaga ( as it is called ).
Chanakya or MR Kaushika if he is the same gentleman I have known for the past 15 years is a serious student of racing, I do meet him at the Bombay Derby every year and as such I can say that he has a genuine passion for racing, I have seen his zeal and efforts to find the missing link to for the ultimate system for isolating winners. I can only wish him luck
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
11-Apr-2018
Godzilla wish you had read Srini's very useful and practical letter.
He has very righty hit the nil on the head unlike you.
There is no question of senior or junior in racing or writing here.
All are equal here. There is some thing called passing Duff Gen just to write all over.
Incidently I also come in senior citizen category but will accept any such fault finding in my letters.Age has nothing to do with all this.
Technically we all [s. citizens] in racing are in the Sanyas ashram category.
All the more reason for us to show Wisdom and not some pipe dreams to young lot.
He has very righty hit the nil on the head unlike you.
There is no question of senior or junior in racing or writing here.
All are equal here. There is some thing called passing Duff Gen just to write all over.
Incidently I also come in senior citizen category but will accept any such fault finding in my letters.Age has nothing to do with all this.
Technically we all [s. citizens] in racing are in the Sanyas ashram category.
All the more reason for us to show Wisdom and not some pipe dreams to young lot.
Esoterical said ...
11-Apr-2018
Mr. Ragvan sir... I give my days best Mumbai 2 days play it win place... Defiantly u got some amount in your pocket. I am from mysore but my age is only 25year
Best of luck all
Best of luck all
Srinivas said ...
11-Apr-2018
I have been into Horse Racing from the early 70s. That was the time when handicapping invariably worked to the T. I worked on this system right from the beginning, and had to admit that it was a true handicapper's delight - That was also the time when all the present pitfalls like pulling of horses, doping, doosras, etc. were unheard of, and every other day, I could identify and play on long shots of anywhere between 10-to-1 to 100-to-1. This continued well into the 90s, and for me it was a sport which paid well.
Alas, the new millennium has brought to the fore all the ills associated with sheer gambling, where the stakes are heavily loaded against the punter, be it a handicapper, pure gut-feel player, or follower of any other system. Under such a scenario, I am afraid no system will be effective in Horse racing, at least in India, leave alone handicapping. Occasional winners based on the latter could still be had, but these will be few and far in between. So, to say that "A good handicapping system can make a punter millionaire" IMHO is trying to create a wrong illusion for the common punter - anybody advocating such a preposterous theory is not only living in a fool's paradise, but is also misleading others with his blatant lies.
My honest 2 cents : Horse racing in India is a perennially losing game, and I will be surprised if even 1% of the punters are in plus, over a period of time.
Alas, the new millennium has brought to the fore all the ills associated with sheer gambling, where the stakes are heavily loaded against the punter, be it a handicapper, pure gut-feel player, or follower of any other system. Under such a scenario, I am afraid no system will be effective in Horse racing, at least in India, leave alone handicapping. Occasional winners based on the latter could still be had, but these will be few and far in between. So, to say that "A good handicapping system can make a punter millionaire" IMHO is trying to create a wrong illusion for the common punter - anybody advocating such a preposterous theory is not only living in a fool's paradise, but is also misleading others with his blatant lies.
My honest 2 cents : Horse racing in India is a perennially losing game, and I will be surprised if even 1% of the punters are in plus, over a period of time.
Godzilla said ...
11-Apr-2018
Hey Guys
There is no point in attacking chanakya. His selections are always good. He is a senior person and you all should respect him.
What is the harm in his saying that if one would have made a roll on his selections, the dividend would have been 10.4 lakhs. It is from theoretical point of view.
You guys always attack a person without valid reasons. Listen him, and if you agree, its okay, otherwise, please keep mum. No point in continuously trolling a senior person.
There is no point in attacking chanakya. His selections are always good. He is a senior person and you all should respect him.
What is the harm in his saying that if one would have made a roll on his selections, the dividend would have been 10.4 lakhs. It is from theoretical point of view.
You guys always attack a person without valid reasons. Listen him, and if you agree, its okay, otherwise, please keep mum. No point in continuously trolling a senior person.
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
11-Apr-2018
Some facts.
few years back came out with numbers theory. It back fired.
Next was a block investment in jackpot combos When 2 or failed very quietly backed out
Now the latest it does not matter to any one if you win few lakhs.
my point is why boast over all over not only here. Relax enjoy your imaginary winnings
few years back came out with numbers theory. It back fired.
Next was a block investment in jackpot combos When 2 or failed very quietly backed out
Now the latest it does not matter to any one if you win few lakhs.
my point is why boast over all over not only here. Relax enjoy your imaginary winnings
Vishnu G said ...
11-Apr-2018
@sun
Why should I participate in PTR or other games, where a win of one million points can not buy me a cup of coffee or tea...says chanakya
Very right
But I wonder what others get ,when chanakya tells us of his million winnings on HT..
I cannot understand why the likes of raghavan and godzilla gets perturbed of chanakya posts.
Raghavan said ...
11-Apr-2018
@Esoterical,
Thanks. I am in Bangalore. And, do not play big. Win/place pools absolutely out of question. I can claim that I have given up betting. Only some forecast and [trinella/exactas when there is c/o amounts]. Anyway I have not taken sanyas from betting. Will definitely keep your selections in mind if I am tempted to bet on win/place again.
@ALL
Chanakya expected the greetings will galore & mine will be the lone voice of dissent and will be totally isolated. To his horror his team of pet fans are totally conspicuous by absense. So, he has confessed that his millions win is only theoretical possibility. Perhaps he has tried to make you all happy with his court jester like statements.
I do not know what tricks he is up to. I might have remained silent or would have extended a simple greeting if he said that he played 3OOO win on all his choices. He would have gained decent amount.
Chalha hai.
Now, what happened to his selections 29th, 3Oth and 7th. On 7th he has given one favorite In-it-to-win and one 3rd favorite columb-princess for place. They clicked. Also he has given Massingo, Requiwhir and Queens best. Where they gone.
However to Chanakya here is something reassuring. 33% selections will come good provided one has some good knowledge in handicapping. And more than that is a real real bonus. Let him give selections and let those selections do the talking.
I will also state a theoretical possibility. 33% win also will help a man earn decent amount [or at least no big loss] in the long run, provided he has discipline and patience. But most, more than 95% end up in loss. That is universal truth. It is due to one lacking in discipline and also having truck load of arrogance/greed that he ends up in loss in spite of maintaining decent strike rate.
No one will praise him if he wins in millions and no body will pity him if he loses in millions. Each and every punter has a big story to tell his friends about his great great winnings. And at the same time each and every punter will be conscious of irreparable damage the racing has inflicted on his finance/health etc. I have no difficulty in admitting to my losses. Others are discrete about that. Chanakya jumps in joy and beat drums about his win selections. Let him enjoy. But that need not be supplemented with questioning everyone, badmouthing everyone who raise a dissent note.
My entire attack on him is only because of total impossibility in translating theoretical possibility into real wins. He counters me with personal abuses. I never lose sleep over that.
Thanks. I am in Bangalore. And, do not play big. Win/place pools absolutely out of question. I can claim that I have given up betting. Only some forecast and [trinella/exactas when there is c/o amounts]. Anyway I have not taken sanyas from betting. Will definitely keep your selections in mind if I am tempted to bet on win/place again.
@ALL
Chanakya expected the greetings will galore & mine will be the lone voice of dissent and will be totally isolated. To his horror his team of pet fans are totally conspicuous by absense. So, he has confessed that his millions win is only theoretical possibility. Perhaps he has tried to make you all happy with his court jester like statements.
I do not know what tricks he is up to. I might have remained silent or would have extended a simple greeting if he said that he played 3OOO win on all his choices. He would have gained decent amount.
Chalha hai.
Now, what happened to his selections 29th, 3Oth and 7th. On 7th he has given one favorite In-it-to-win and one 3rd favorite columb-princess for place. They clicked. Also he has given Massingo, Requiwhir and Queens best. Where they gone.
However to Chanakya here is something reassuring. 33% selections will come good provided one has some good knowledge in handicapping. And more than that is a real real bonus. Let him give selections and let those selections do the talking.
I will also state a theoretical possibility. 33% win also will help a man earn decent amount [or at least no big loss] in the long run, provided he has discipline and patience. But most, more than 95% end up in loss. That is universal truth. It is due to one lacking in discipline and also having truck load of arrogance/greed that he ends up in loss in spite of maintaining decent strike rate.
No one will praise him if he wins in millions and no body will pity him if he loses in millions. Each and every punter has a big story to tell his friends about his great great winnings. And at the same time each and every punter will be conscious of irreparable damage the racing has inflicted on his finance/health etc. I have no difficulty in admitting to my losses. Others are discrete about that. Chanakya jumps in joy and beat drums about his win selections. Let him enjoy. But that need not be supplemented with questioning everyone, badmouthing everyone who raise a dissent note.
My entire attack on him is only because of total impossibility in translating theoretical possibility into real wins. He counters me with personal abuses. I never lose sleep over that.
Mahie said ...
10-Apr-2018
Dear Chanakya,
You don't have to go long back in archives to find that once Abhay Pune(who is a regular tipster on this very website) tipped 11 winners out of eleven races in one day, if I'm not wrong it was for rwitc races(Last season may be).
Now if you put a roll of 3k on those 11 winners you can retire and spend rest of your life in UK or US.
But we all know these things do not happen in actual,and that gentleman never claimed so.
It's all just for some excitement.
And
Along with fun this Hoby can pay you sometimes and it can cost you sometimes . I just got one question for you sir,
In race one you got good odds and played Spontaneous Eddie at 7to 1,bravo.
In last race why first horse was not the choice just because it was 8 to 1,????
You take your chance at good odds so how you miss this opportunity and went for the favourite at 2 to 1???Just because it won
Its OK even if you don't answer..
@PDS
if a man is honestly accepting that he does not win big in races does that give us the right to call him Looser??
He may be doing well with in his own comfort zone. Everyone has the right to choose his bet size and bet type.
Respect Raghavan for his honesty.
Otherwise this website will be full of claims making millions and sometimes billions.
Whenever a smart man makes millions he collects his money and goes home silently.
No one shouts from roof top.
By the way tax on money earned from racing is around 30% cess additional to that,
So think twice before making such claims.
We all can contribute for medicine if needed.
Keep making millions or million stories
Upto you
You don't have to go long back in archives to find that once Abhay Pune(who is a regular tipster on this very website) tipped 11 winners out of eleven races in one day, if I'm not wrong it was for rwitc races(Last season may be).
Now if you put a roll of 3k on those 11 winners you can retire and spend rest of your life in UK or US.
But we all know these things do not happen in actual,and that gentleman never claimed so.
It's all just for some excitement.
And
Along with fun this Hoby can pay you sometimes and it can cost you sometimes . I just got one question for you sir,
In race one you got good odds and played Spontaneous Eddie at 7to 1,bravo.
In last race why first horse was not the choice just because it was 8 to 1,????
You take your chance at good odds so how you miss this opportunity and went for the favourite at 2 to 1???Just because it won
Its OK even if you don't answer..
@PDS
if a man is honestly accepting that he does not win big in races does that give us the right to call him Looser??
He may be doing well with in his own comfort zone. Everyone has the right to choose his bet size and bet type.
Respect Raghavan for his honesty.
Otherwise this website will be full of claims making millions and sometimes billions.
Whenever a smart man makes millions he collects his money and goes home silently.
No one shouts from roof top.
By the way tax on money earned from racing is around 30% cess additional to that,
So think twice before making such claims.
We all can contribute for medicine if needed.
Keep making millions or million stories
Upto you
Neutral View said ...
10-Apr-2018
Neutral View said ... On : 3/29/2018 1:53:46 PM
Welcome back Chanakya ji
So going by the previous record, chanakya is upto something. May be another million rupees profit claim or another foreign trip.
So my prediction came true after all..lol
Welcome back Chanakya ji
So going by the previous record, chanakya is upto something. May be another million rupees profit claim or another foreign trip.
So my prediction came true after all..lol
Esoterical said ...
10-Apr-2018
Mr. Ray an sir.
I am miliniors. Pat sir Mera month me Utena Ata he.. Canoga sir ki Tarah 1 din me 10 lakh mere pass Nabi Ata... Mera point he be ki aap 1 din me Kabhi bhi 10 lakh racing me nahi Bana sakte vo bhi small amount win roll Kar k... Just 3k jesa chankya sir bol rahe he..
Me bohot Kam selection dalta Hu.. Par ragvan sir mere selection Kabhi Mera days best DeLuna 95% win hote he.. Vo bhi above 3/1 odds se... Ragvan sir nene handicapping sikhne me bohot mehnat ki he.. Or me slowly slowly age Badh raga Hu.. Na ki 1 din LA 10 lakh kama raha hu..me month k min mum 2_3lakh avarage per month racing me se kamata hu.
I am miliniors. Pat sir Mera month me Utena Ata he.. Canoga sir ki Tarah 1 din me 10 lakh mere pass Nabi Ata... Mera point he be ki aap 1 din me Kabhi bhi 10 lakh racing me nahi Bana sakte vo bhi small amount win roll Kar k... Just 3k jesa chankya sir bol rahe he..
Me bohot Kam selection dalta Hu.. Par ragvan sir mere selection Kabhi Mera days best DeLuna 95% win hote he.. Vo bhi above 3/1 odds se... Ragvan sir nene handicapping sikhne me bohot mehnat ki he.. Or me slowly slowly age Badh raga Hu.. Na ki 1 din LA 10 lakh kama raha hu..me month k min mum 2_3lakh avarage per month racing me se kamata hu.
Chanakya said ...
10-Apr-2018
@PDS., your 1:10 PM.
I know the difference between theory and practical because I am basically from science stream...
I also know that 9 out of 10 roll bets will fail on an average but it is the ONE which succeeds, matters. I don't advice punters to try itbecause they can NEVER succeed... They have only rudimentary knowledge...
I know the difference between theory and practical because I am basically from science stream...
I also know that 9 out of 10 roll bets will fail on an average but it is the ONE which succeeds, matters. I don't advice punters to try itbecause they can NEVER succeed... They have only rudimentary knowledge...
Manish said ...
10-Apr-2018
Some of the quotes from that blockbuster tips
1 can win but 5 will pay better place.
agreed. But if 1 had won, his money would have been on 1 and not 5.
last race, either 1 or 2.
He always bet on the horse which ultimately won.
Many people in the race course say the same thing.
Bhai, agar maine aaj roll kar diya hota na to lakh rupey ban jaate.
Yaar ghar se to spontaneious eddie hi banaa ke aaya tha, but 7 ka rate tha, isliye favourite khel diya.
Sheikchilli is not a fantasy. Its a reality in race course.
But nevertheless, tips were good. After all broken clock also tells the right time, twice a day.
1 can win but 5 will pay better place.
agreed. But if 1 had won, his money would have been on 1 and not 5.
last race, either 1 or 2.
He always bet on the horse which ultimately won.
Many people in the race course say the same thing.
Bhai, agar maine aaj roll kar diya hota na to lakh rupey ban jaate.
Yaar ghar se to spontaneious eddie hi banaa ke aaya tha, but 7 ka rate tha, isliye favourite khel diya.
Sheikchilli is not a fantasy. Its a reality in race course.
But nevertheless, tips were good. After all broken clock also tells the right time, twice a day.
Chanakya said ...
10-Apr-2018
@ SFP.,
I am not blowing a bugle, but watching the fun; where reasonably educated punters fail to read correctly, a reasonably written post...
headpost says: 'A good Handicapping system......,
followed by an example of my selections of 5 races which succeeded...
and ending with the final words: ' therefore , a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from racing...
Where did I say that I made 10,40,000? !!!
I might have won more or less than this figure!
I am not blowing a bugle, but watching the fun; where reasonably educated punters fail to read correctly, a reasonably written post...
headpost says: 'A good Handicapping system......,
followed by an example of my selections of 5 races which succeeded...
and ending with the final words: ' therefore , a good handicapping system is a pre-requisite to win from racing...
Where did I say that I made 10,40,000? !!!
I might have won more or less than this figure!
Pds said ...
10-Apr-2018
Esoterical, My friend, you are contradicting your own statement. You said no one can become a millionaire from racing, but you have already won millions many times over by winning 2-3 lakhs per month and you are Racing for six years. I have not understood this part, can you please explain? Thanks
@Raghavan, I am glad, you are not in a loss and it is also very good that your betting is hobby type and controlled. Keep it like that itself. Good Luck
@Raghavan, I am glad, you are not in a loss and it is also very good that your betting is hobby type and controlled. Keep it like that itself. Good Luck
Raghavan said ...
10-Apr-2018
@PDS:
You think that I am a loser. Certainly. I do not boast of any huge wins. At present, I will bet in forecast, rarely trinella/exacta and sometimes treble.
Win/place completely stopped. Thanks to GST. The picking of winner & runner is not very easy. At best 4 winners in 2O attempts. Average strike rate is 2 or 3 winners in 2O attempts. But, the main point is no big losses.
Chanakya says that I am a confirmed loser. No problem on that. If he points one finger at me, the three will be in his direction.
@Sun:
What do you mean "dont be merciless". Chanakya said 1O.4 lakhs gain. I questioned.
Even the theoretical possibility here is depending on you giving credence to his statement that he opted for no-2 in race no 6. That is because of odds. Most silly statement. The second thing is his claim of 2.5 for place on r-one. Even in this GST era, it is difficult to accept that a horse quoted 2.5 will pay only 15 for place.
Anyway, it is not only me who is questioning Chanakya. Several others have registered their dissent note.
You think that I am a loser. Certainly. I do not boast of any huge wins. At present, I will bet in forecast, rarely trinella/exacta and sometimes treble.
Win/place completely stopped. Thanks to GST. The picking of winner & runner is not very easy. At best 4 winners in 2O attempts. Average strike rate is 2 or 3 winners in 2O attempts. But, the main point is no big losses.
Chanakya says that I am a confirmed loser. No problem on that. If he points one finger at me, the three will be in his direction.
@Sun:
What do you mean "dont be merciless". Chanakya said 1O.4 lakhs gain. I questioned.
Even the theoretical possibility here is depending on you giving credence to his statement that he opted for no-2 in race no 6. That is because of odds. Most silly statement. The second thing is his claim of 2.5 for place on r-one. Even in this GST era, it is difficult to accept that a horse quoted 2.5 will pay only 15 for place.
Anyway, it is not only me who is questioning Chanakya. Several others have registered their dissent note.
Pds said ...
10-Apr-2018
Chanakya, Come on, now you are bluffing. No Bookie in India follows that system for a roll, unless you keep on calculating the total after every Race and keep playing afresh, other wise you will get all the rates before your first bet. Please don't forget that I may be senior to you in Indian Horse Racing as I have completed 50 years of Bookie bets. In case you disagree, please tell me the name so that it can be checked back and I shall offer my apology on this site itself. Regards.
Azim said ...
10-Apr-2018
@chanakya ji
Therotically possible practically impossible..if it's possible I would have counting my money in crores till date brother ...
Therotically possible practically impossible..if it's possible I would have counting my money in crores till date brother ...
Stop Fooling Punter said ...
10-Apr-2018
Punters who actually win never go around blowing the bugle.
He lives in a world fantasy, secondly why post all over and every where?
He lives in a world fantasy, secondly why post all over and every where?
Pds said ...
10-Apr-2018
Raghavan, I have been reading your posts and more I read your posts more I get convinced that it is very difficult for you to be a regular winner in Horse Racing (As, so far you have not given any indications to this affect), mind you, I also know that there can only be just about 5 percent serious Race goers( exclude Trs and Jockeys ) who can honestly call them selves as regular winners. There fore the first and fore most requirement is to make honest and accurate assessment of one self. In case you feel you can make the grade of being amongst
5 percent winners( what ever method you want or can adopt for your punting procedure) then pursue Horse Racing for bigger gains other wise it should be a hobby only, within very moderate limits just for entertainment and pass time. Lastly, in case the loses are on the high side, start afresh, don't chase, it is dangerous. Good Luck
5 percent winners( what ever method you want or can adopt for your punting procedure) then pursue Horse Racing for bigger gains other wise it should be a hobby only, within very moderate limits just for entertainment and pass time. Lastly, in case the loses are on the high side, start afresh, don't chase, it is dangerous. Good Luck
Pds said ...
10-Apr-2018
Chanakya, I am sure You must be aware of two important components of studies? 1) Theory and. 2) Practical. So what you did practically on this day? please tell us that and the end result in figures??. It will inculcate more confidence in us and will also help all of us. Thanks
Chanakya said ...
10-Apr-2018
@ PDS,
I don't bet at pre-race odds in the ring. I bet at the odds available at the time of betting, in the ring, which fluctuates regularly before the race and differs from bookmaker to another bookmaker - I hope you know this basic fact...
@ sun,
You seem to be too clever, despite acting serious!
You want me to underwrite your losses 'in full', but want to pay only 10% of profit! Do you know basic rules of partnership? I'm ready to underwrite 50% of your losses but demand 50% of profit- which is morally and legally enforceable...
Why should I participate in PTR or other games, where a win of one million points can not buy me a cup of coffee or tea...
I go for VFM - real contests where I gain real money - which I can touch and feel...
Chanakya said ...
10-Apr-2018
@Shanil A.,
Do I owe you anything to post everyday of the year?
@ godzilla,
I accept your point about name of the runner.I post in a hurry- so the numbers .
With bookies we always bet with numbers...
Thanks and regards...
Do I owe you anything to post everyday of the year?
@ godzilla,
I accept your point about name of the runner.I post in a hurry- so the numbers .
With bookies we always bet with numbers...
Thanks and regards...
Sun said ...
10-Apr-2018
@ Raghavan,
Don't be so merciless.He is having a selective memory.On those exceptional days when he gives calculations in the most profitable way,let him have his way.
You can look it from another angle.You have gone on record that you are a loser in Racing then why not you trying playing his selections to recover your losses.To start with ,I recommend, you don't go for roll bets and restrict yourself to individual race bets.May be we can even write to Chanakyaji if he is willing to underwrite our losses and to be fair to him we can offer 10% of Winnings when we are in plus.How do you like this idea?
Earlier I suggested to him that the best way to silence his critics is to participate in PTR and showcase his skills but he is silent on that.So you can take a guess.
Don't be so merciless.He is having a selective memory.On those exceptional days when he gives calculations in the most profitable way,let him have his way.
You can look it from another angle.You have gone on record that you are a loser in Racing then why not you trying playing his selections to recover your losses.To start with ,I recommend, you don't go for roll bets and restrict yourself to individual race bets.May be we can even write to Chanakyaji if he is willing to underwrite our losses and to be fair to him we can offer 10% of Winnings when we are in plus.How do you like this idea?
Earlier I suggested to him that the best way to silence his critics is to participate in PTR and showcase his skills but he is silent on that.So you can take a guess.
Godzilla said ...
10-Apr-2018
chanakya sir
Good rejoinder to my posting. I appreciate it. However, please mention horse names and not numbers in your selections. Your Mumbai choices are always good.
With warm regards.
Good rejoinder to my posting. I appreciate it. However, please mention horse names and not numbers in your selections. Your Mumbai choices are always good.
With warm regards.
Chanakya said ...
09-Apr-2018
@ Santoshkumar,
you are right. He is there, on other site...
@ PDS,
You have made a point. However, I must remind you that during last year Invitation day at Bangalore, I did play a roll and claimed a decent win. There was lot of disbelief, as usual, but luckily there as a witness( Mr. Ramiyer) to my betting who has seen me rolling my bets who later came to my rescue to shut up the naysayers... I did play a roll on 5 runners on first sunday of April last year and gave the names BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN!
I don't think, everytime I can find an independent witness to prove my claims...
Eddie, night odds were 5/1, was 3-> 3 1/2 on IR.com, were 3-> 4 on RWITCsite before races were run and were 13/2 to 15/2 on 18 official bookmakers at RWITC ring. To avoid ' nuisance' I quoted the 'closing' odds of RWITC...
Selecting a 'place runner' in a roll is not normal, agreed. But I believe in VFM ( value for money). On Invitation day at Bangalore, in Invitation race I DID NOT SELECT S.A. Arms the hot favorite (odds- 5/10) but a ' placed runner' who was at odds of 4/1 and who came third in that race...
I believe that to win big money from racing you have to take bigger risk...
you are right. He is there, on other site...
@ PDS,
You have made a point. However, I must remind you that during last year Invitation day at Bangalore, I did play a roll and claimed a decent win. There was lot of disbelief, as usual, but luckily there as a witness( Mr. Ramiyer) to my betting who has seen me rolling my bets who later came to my rescue to shut up the naysayers... I did play a roll on 5 runners on first sunday of April last year and gave the names BEFORE THE RACES WERE RUN!
I don't think, everytime I can find an independent witness to prove my claims...
Eddie, night odds were 5/1, was 3-> 3 1/2 on IR.com, were 3-> 4 on RWITCsite before races were run and were 13/2 to 15/2 on 18 official bookmakers at RWITC ring. To avoid ' nuisance' I quoted the 'closing' odds of RWITC...
Selecting a 'place runner' in a roll is not normal, agreed. But I believe in VFM ( value for money). On Invitation day at Bangalore, in Invitation race I DID NOT SELECT S.A. Arms the hot favorite (odds- 5/10) but a ' placed runner' who was at odds of 4/1 and who came third in that race...
I believe that to win big money from racing you have to take bigger risk...
Chanakya said ...
09-Apr-2018
@ godzilla,
I post my selections BEFORE the races to PROVE that these WERE my choices before the races were run. I don't post them for readers to follow them...
whether they have any value is known only to me...
You missed the bus , not me...
I post my selections BEFORE the races to PROVE that these WERE my choices before the races were run. I don't post them for readers to follow them...
whether they have any value is known only to me...
You missed the bus , not me...
Cannavarro said ...
09-Apr-2018
Theoretically YES but practically NO the usual sad story??!!
Raghavan said ...
09-Apr-2018
@Godzilla,
A day dreamer may finish in money on some odd day. But Chanakya is worse than that. So do not compare him with day dreamer.
In the last race he says h-no 1 was 8/1. And h-no-2 was 2/1. So he says that only 2 should be the choice.
On the same analogy, in race no 1, H-no-1 was 7/1. And h-no-5 may be at 1.5 for place. Obviously he played h-no-5 for place and the roll bet would have crashed.
This 1O.4 lakh gain is very much interesting granny story. He is certainly at liberty to tell his nursery going grand children. Of course those grand children will believe him if he bribes them with enough no of ice creams and chocolates.
Why Chanakya makes a fool of himself and laughing stock is beyond my imagination. No one among HT members will accept the calculations if they were given after the race. You say he is rubbing salt in the wounds of punters. I also can do that. I mean, after the races, I also can write some credible calculations where 1OO/- is converted to 1 cr or even 1O cr in a day.
@ PDS: 3.5 before the races on S=eddie? Bhap rey! Can you please tell me what odds were given for Rogue one for place? Chanakya says it is 2.5. I am having my own doubts. You see, there are no bookies at Bng. And Rogue-one paid 15/- only for place at BNG tote. Same dividend at Kolkata & Mumbai also. Hyderabad still miserly. 7 for a fiver. Means 14/- for 1O/-.
I agree bookies odds will be slightly higher. But do not think bookies could be so liberal. Giving 2.5 odds [effectively it means 7k return on 2.2k bet].
You all may be wondering what I gain by attacking Chanakya. I hope you believe me when I say I have no dushmanee with him. I have told this several times. But I will only question his pre race bundlebaaz and post race clatter.
A day dreamer may finish in money on some odd day. But Chanakya is worse than that. So do not compare him with day dreamer.
In the last race he says h-no 1 was 8/1. And h-no-2 was 2/1. So he says that only 2 should be the choice.
On the same analogy, in race no 1, H-no-1 was 7/1. And h-no-5 may be at 1.5 for place. Obviously he played h-no-5 for place and the roll bet would have crashed.
This 1O.4 lakh gain is very much interesting granny story. He is certainly at liberty to tell his nursery going grand children. Of course those grand children will believe him if he bribes them with enough no of ice creams and chocolates.
Why Chanakya makes a fool of himself and laughing stock is beyond my imagination. No one among HT members will accept the calculations if they were given after the race. You say he is rubbing salt in the wounds of punters. I also can do that. I mean, after the races, I also can write some credible calculations where 1OO/- is converted to 1 cr or even 1O cr in a day.
@ PDS: 3.5 before the races on S=eddie? Bhap rey! Can you please tell me what odds were given for Rogue one for place? Chanakya says it is 2.5. I am having my own doubts. You see, there are no bookies at Bng. And Rogue-one paid 15/- only for place at BNG tote. Same dividend at Kolkata & Mumbai also. Hyderabad still miserly. 7 for a fiver. Means 14/- for 1O/-.
I agree bookies odds will be slightly higher. But do not think bookies could be so liberal. Giving 2.5 odds [effectively it means 7k return on 2.2k bet].
You all may be wondering what I gain by attacking Chanakya. I hope you believe me when I say I have no dushmanee with him. I have told this several times. But I will only question his pre race bundlebaaz and post race clatter.
Pds said ...
09-Apr-2018
Godzilla, I would like to differ with you. Why only names of the Horses and not the nos?? I very much know that Chanakya is a senior and experienced Race Lover and would refer and compare his choices with my Race book and make some notes for my reference and also follow a few tips as per my choice. How ever, I agree with you on one point that playing a roll of 5 horses and that also with one place bet is not on as Bookies don't take such mixed up bets. More over the pre race rate of Spont.Eddie was only 3.5, so the calculations are hypothetical and theoretical ( this brings the total calculations to much lower figure even in theory)
Chanakya, good choice, pl keep it up. lots of Race lovers do need it and we know that giving the choices by names takes lot extra time for posting so to save time you can give your choices by nos only. Good luck.
Chanakya, good choice, pl keep it up. lots of Race lovers do need it and we know that giving the choices by names takes lot extra time for posting so to save time you can give your choices by nos only. Good luck.
Santoshkumar Vk said ...
09-Apr-2018
Chanakya Sirji,
Waiting for your Great Admirer to Fire All His Barrels,
Pretty much sure he will not Disappoint.
Regards
Waiting for your Great Admirer to Fire All His Barrels,
Pretty much sure he will not Disappoint.
Regards
Godzilla said ...
09-Apr-2018
chanakyaji
First of all
You have posted the selections by mentioning the horse numbers and not names. No one would have taken any interest to refer your horse numbers with the relative horse names. Such selections mentioning horse numbers have no face value. If your selections fail, you would have got away with it without any ire.
Now you are adding to the wounds of punters by mentioning that if anyone would have played your choices by rolling on them, they would have made 10,40,000/-.
If you were that confident, you could have mentioned the same before the Races, in the Selection/Choices column. No point in boasting now after missing the bus.
Finally, have you put a roll and made 10.4 lakhs ? Otherwise, you are only day dreaming !!!
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