@ Ramanujan,
Sorry to differ with you,it is possible to compute Ratings before Handicapper rates the horses.It is simple calculations.May be one of these days I will give my Ratings before they are published on the web site.
Thanks.

@ S C Sharma,
The previous races of both horses were Terms Races.Being Terms race the Weights allotted were as per Terms of the race.
The Revision of Ratings is a very simple exercise
Let us take CTS To arrive at Revised Rating we take each placed horses and compute the Winner Rating.
WRT Star Superior if we calculate the Timing Sir Cecil would have clocked same timing both being at same Weight and close finish the new rating of Sir Cecil is only 72.Similarly if we take the 3rd horse the Time difference is 1.07 sec OR 107 in terms of 1/100 secs and for 1600 mtrs this works out to 11 RPs and the rating of this horse is 52 so if we add 11 to it comes 63 still less than 76.Wrt to 4th horse it is even less at 57.So all Revised Ratings being less than 76 Sir Cecil is retained at 76.
Now coming to Punjabi Girl race if we do the same calculations 52 for 2nd horse but wrt 4th horse 65 units of time which 6 RPs and added to 52 its rating it is 58 so retained at 58.
Now in Derby taking same rating for Punjabi Girl and concluding that Sir Cecil is having 18 RPs advantage is not correct.Here we need to look at Bottom Rating of CTS and FTS
In CTS Star Superior rated 72 carried 56Kg the reference horse the Bottom Rating is 60 but this gives only a rating of 72 to Sir Cecil but is rated 76 so we add 4 to 60 to arrive at Bottom Rating of 64.
In FTS the reference horse is 4th horse rated 52 carried 56Kg so BR is 40.So Punjabi Girl is 58 at 40 Sir Cecil 76 at 64 so I compute Punjabi Girl rating at 69 as 58+0.7*16 ie 69.2.
Coming to the example of Castlebridge cited by Glasgow Prince if you look at all races after Race no 18 of Mumbai they are all Terms Races and if we calculate it will be seen that there is no need to up the rating except for 170 of Kolkata and 42 of current season.Here if we go by calculation it should go up to 138 but the Limit is 125 so it is put at 125.Castlebridge gave 5.5Kg to a horse rated 109 and still beat by large margin.I feel in this race 2nd horse should be taken as reference which gives 128 to Castlebridge at BR of 103
Hope I have clarified the matter.
Thanks.

Good reasoning, Dharmesh....

In fillies trial stakes REALMSOFFANTASY was rated 51 and ISNT SHE LOVELY was rated 36. Both finished ahead of CATALONIA rated 52 hence the handicapper penalised REALMSOFFANTASY by 2rps and ISNT SHE LOVELY by 16 points as both of them beat CATALONIA rated 52 ( higher then both) whose rating came down to 50 after both below rated horses defeated her.

Regards

Mr.Dharmesh:. Sea Quest rated 72 after winning the terms race and not 74 point rating. This is really heavy penalty as if debut run winner promoted to class II for handicap race. Rating of 75 and above would have promoted this gelding to direct class I handicap race which will be a rare phenomena if it would have happened.

Mr Sharma,
Thanks for repeatedly bringing out salient features of racing, even if one knows some facts, they get lost while processing all the factors .I benefit from many such aspects that make me recheck and at times re access my thoughts .

Glasgow Prince,
I will be in Pune Oct 14th and would like to meet you, Let me know if you have the time. It has been quite long since we have met.

SIR CECIL and STAR SUPERIOR both were rated 76 and 72 respectively in colts trial stakes and both were the highest rated horses in the field third highest rated was RIKKI TIKKI TAWI (52) and others who finished behind were rated below 52. Hence the handicapper didn’t penalise them and the ratings remained same for all the horses as none of them defeated higher rated horse even in placings. Same way PUNJABI GIRL was highest rated 58 when she won fillies trial stakes and she was penalised by one point may be her victory was better and underfoot conditions were pretty tough on that day.

Now Sea Quest who also won the terms race defeated ATHANEAUS and KNOTTY ASH both rated 58 and hence SQ was penalised 74 rps for comfortably defeating 58 rated horses.

Regards

One more case of penalty.

Isn't She Lovely ran in the Fillies with the rating of 36 points after placing 3rd in the said race she has been raised to a rating of 52 for placing 3rd and now she runs in a Class 2 Race (45-65) on Saturday. She runs with lack of experience in a field of experienced horses.

Glasgow prince: I posted my reply on some points mentioned and raised by you but it was wrongly addressed to Stop fooling punter. I regret for the mistake and apologies for the same without hurting sentiments of both of you. With all regards...

Kolramsri : Rating is a tool in the hands of shrewd trainers.. They place the horses in such a way to confuse the punters knowing the rating of the horse. In terms races number of horses are not well placed compare to their rating. Still they give false run knowingly that horse is not going to win or place second or third, because of wrong placement, continuesly they do such wrong placements and one day or after change of a particular racing season the horse will be placed in handicap race. Because of its previous run and record ran and unplaced number of times, the horse gets good odds and when the connections fancy such horses or put their money they obliges. We have to be careful about the placement of horses whether a particular horse is placed to win or simply going for an outing or on weight reducing mission. Latest in this season I noted some horses though rating wise far inferior preferred to run in terms races with far higher rating horses and later brought back to handicap race with their equivalent horses and won the races. That's why racing is also known as game of intelligence.

Stalwarts of today had at some stage of their journey must have gone through the phase under discussion. Attempts other than across table discussion offering explanation is a bit tricky/thankless job Better leave it to Self-learning, albeit at associated cost .
Let us acknowledge the knowledge of the Handicapper. They operate under specific guidelines coupled with discretion and wisdom. If a punter legitimately feels that the handicapper is observed to have not accorded due penalty, one should jump at it and seize the opportunity on hand to en cash far from questioning the fairness or otherwise . The essence of smart and happy racing from a punter’s point of view should be to emulate a crane doing penance for its prey at the riverbed patiently, watch out for instances to identify the sporadic cases of contestants cozily escaping legitimate penalty and nestling behind in terms races on technical grounds and to pounce on them in their next respective appearances in handicap events. The condition of due diligence, no doubt, applies.

Mr. sharma

You are right. Even if the terms races does not require ratings, both the winner's rating must have been revised based on their wins..

S C Sharma,
Generally, ratings are left more or less unchanged after terms races. The rating of Poseidon was changed because it was a handicap race. Take the case of Castlebridge. Its rating was changed from 73 to 91 after its win in a class II race on 8th Sept 2017. Thereafter despite 4 wins and 2 second placings, its rating went up only to 99 as they were all terms races. In its last victory in this Bangalore season despite having the rating of only 99, being a terms race, it was giving weight all round to horses rated much higher and still won. Perhaps because of this glaring anomaly, its rating has been subsequently yanked up to 125.

I agree with SC SHARMA I am also surprised to note no revised ratings for SIR CECIL.

Attn s c sharma.... Do you really think , that these ratings will be of help in picking winners? absolutely NO. Take the case of Zurbaran (60) finishing well ahead of horses rated more than 100 in Indian Derby of 2003. ( This has ref to Is this Fair?)

Sharma ji kya ho gya hai.


Derby it is 57 kgs for colts and geldings and 55.5 kgs for filles .it is fixed

It does not matter what your rating is Unless my memory fails me Star carnation was a low rated horse in winter derby came second beating many top rated horses

Mr.Syed, With due respect to you ratings are given after every run, some times if the horse is board out the rating will be dropped by few points and if the horse wins or finished on board the ratings will be up by some points. Third option if no penalty is given the rating will remain same. If your contention is true than why rating of Poseidon running in this same terms race raised from 44 to 55 points. That means 11 point penalty given for the last win of that horse.Simple thing if a horse continuesly participate in terms races and wins than as per your knowledge the rating should not be changed and every time the winner horse allowed to be run with the same rating? When we discuss a healthy and technical point it is not good/wise to question anybody's knowledge, simply to prove yourself superior .You know the handicapping system than you put forward your version about handicap and penalty. Handicappers follow so many system as per handicap and terms races and its their own dicreatinary power as per their observation to penalize more or less or no penalty. Your contention about no penalty for terms race is not based on facts and merit and no way correct. Again I am sorry with due respect to you. Pl. enhance your racing knowledge.

this is terms race,otherwise if they were running they would hav got rating with penalty or what ever.

After this race they will get their ratings,
Mr.Sharma you will have to go long way in racing.

enjoy Ss winning derby.