Dear Ramanujan, (Sir),

Thank you for your blessings. I am truly humbled and privileged.

REGARDS.

Dear CRK,

Springing from nowhere, your posting simply establishes the elastic potential of the powerful thread opened by Ragavanji. I should confess, I’m a bit embarrassed too, to have been elevated to disproportionate levels of my limited credential. Nevertheless, it leaves me a touching and filling feeling to pray wholeheartedly and invoke God’s choicest Blessings on you dear, wake up.

Regards

Ramanujan

Yes learn to track where big money is moving (Owner / Trainer betting) along with form.

Indian turf record:

Racing is surviving on hope.  One might have lost even the thali of his wife.  But he presents himself at the race course, every day!

The mere fact that a small minority of one lakh people in towns where the combined population exceeds 15 crores is an indication that majority consider it as a vice & sure shot road to bankruptcy.  Some people may survive unscathed, some people may lose amount but des not seriously compromise their life style.  But, majority are in serious financial problem.

Betting high on winners and betting nominal amount may give you profit every day.   Betting only winners, and not betting even a pie on losers, may put one along with big industrialists as far as net worth is considered.  However,  for the sake of argument we are talking about a man's end result  in any racing season if he plays 1000 or 2000 standard amount on every race.

Chanakya's case is unique.  His claim is by betting 2000 on his first choices & 2000 each on 2 or 3 choices that he has bracketed (or mentioned as open race) one will be plus.  This is the claim which I totally disagree.  And this is the claim from him which prompted me to open this thread.

Chanakya says he has earned 40k, 50k, 80k etc by betting on all races in the current BNG summer races.  Let him prove that.  Mere words from him that he is a winner  will not satisfy anyone. 

He has stated that he bets 2000 on his first choice and 2000 on each one of his 2 or 3 choices that he has bracketed.

Let him give calculations on a standard bet of 2000/- and prove that he is indeed a winner of 50k or 80k; no ifs and buts; I will apologise for harassing him for more than 20 months.  And will be his spokesperson in future.

Dear Ramanujan, (Sir),

Your truthfulness, humility, frank and ego-less attitude comes out in one of the most endearing posts I have come across anywhere. At least for me, you have drawn out a road map in the way ahead, both in life as well as in racing matters(where I am still involved with a sense of guilt for reasons quite common amongst most racegoers).

Your racing analysis is the proverbial hitting the nail on the head, which more or less sums up the excellent foundation, experience and your fruitful travels in the intricate labyrinth of the vast data that the study of racing entails, not to mention the benevolence and guidance of your beloved uncle.

With words that seem so inadequate to express my thanks and gratitude, I can only bow to you, Sir, and, if it were possible, would be honored to touch your feet as we are wont to do.

Wishing you good health, happiness, and many many WINNING OCCASIONS !

REGARDS.

crk..

All,

This is attempt to keep interesting but dying thread alive.

It is possible to win by playing all races. Yesterday anyone followng Dharmesh's selection and playing Rs. 10 on each race on Tote would have made Rs. 159. Playing a few races does not guaruntee winning. MIrza gave three each way tips yesterday and playing them at Rs. 10 would have resulted in loss of Rs. 9. I hope Dharmesh and Mirza do not mind my quoting their names. I have done so only for illustrating a point.

Chanakya's firsy seven selections failed. Rs. 70 gone. But if he played  Rs. 200 on his last selection, he would have ended day in plus.

Winning or losing depends on system of your selections, system of your beting, strike rate of your selections, your capital and your expectation (you are happy with small positive gain or want to buy film studio in one shot).

More than anything, it depends on LUCK. If there is no 'dhanalabh' in my rashi, i can never win. So question for astologers and numerologists. If my stars are bad will best selections help me ?

Excellent and healthy public opinions of personal experences in the world of "HORSE RACING GAMBLING". Mr Ayyarnet iam 59 years of age having first stepped into a racecourse at the young age of 18 years in 1979 to watch Ranjit.Bhast's "Mohawk" win the Indian Derby .Rest that followed was having a parallel interest in horse racing during my engineering studies and later emloyment. Today i am just a spectator of the sport although i religiously attend every "INDIAN DERBY" at the Mahalaxmi racecourse and was sad to see "Sir Cecil" lose Indian Derby -2019.

Though not an active participant, I've always been fascinatingly drawn on a regular basis to the magnetic HT site abound with quality contributions from brilliant minds around. The too generous  appreciation, coming as it does from someone like Ramiyer,smart-still-poor-punter and Raghavanji  along with their wishes make me feel honoured . My sincere thanks to them and best wishes to everyone around here.

Ramanujan

Ramanujam sir,

Thank you for your post.  Very well written that too from a person in his 80th year.  

@Raghavan ji

Those who making money in horse racing never reveal their trick of the trade it's because YOUR LOSS IS MY GAIN a natural gambling tendency and I'm also one of those, my mantra is simple 1 stick to the gun (horse) 2 seaze The day when you get 10% of Total money in your wallet

@ Ramanujan Sir

Wow! What a writing at 80 years of age!! What a vast experience you have gained over the years, and what a free-flowing language you have used to mesmerise people like me!! God bless.

Ayyarnet:

I was having persons like you in mind when I said all over the country you can find up to 500 people who are making decent profit every month.  But with jockeys like Mallesh Narredu, Aslam Khader, Shroff telling good bye to jockey's career, the current scenario is slightly tricky.  In spite of  having jockeys like Suraj, Trevor, Sandesh & also Akshay kumar of HYD.  

Raj_original,

My post was totally unnecessary.  Even fresh punters with less than 2 months betting behind them say that one should avoid betting in all races.  However, I fail to understand why or how some die hard punters with several decades of racing behind them say something  which is stupid & non sense.

Rudolph Furtado,

Glad to hear from you.  You see, disclosing any loss in race betting is terribly difficult.  Because of ego problem.  Your post is rather refreshing.  How many years young are you?

DEAR Ramanujan sir. Excellent write up and experience. Nice to read and hear from your thoughts. Aready here a genius and  avid follower of the game Sri. S.C.Sharma writes about various nuances of this sport. Now you are a senior Sharma. Thanks a lot. Keep posting whenever time permits. God bless you .

Ayyarnet. This kind of posts from me, to the concerned, is a mood elevator. I hope I provided some nice moments for you. LATE REPEAT LATETrainer Byramjee was also our fav stable. Fans of Byramjee may not like this.

Hi all,

I’m unable to resist participating in the titled discussion much against my will.  My association with racing dates back to around middle of 1950s  as a budding teenager and a then school-goer who was asked to read the English version of the popular Original vel publication and explain in tamil whenever and wherever necessary facilitating winner picking nuances for my maternal uncle who happened to be my caregiver. He found my services handy enough towards emboldening him to make me accompany him to the racecourses mostly to Bangalore much against admonitions of my parents residing in a faraway place on breadwinning grounds, as  also amid protests from people around for spoiling a school-going boy. Now and then he used to make money and invariably treated me well and I carry great admiration for him the way he took care of me. Pursuit of studies and career prospects having taken over eventually, I was totally cut off from racing but the exposure to rudimentary knowledge was dormant without scope for application altogether. I came across a spell of tenure posting in Europe for a while that rekindled my interest. I never attended a racecourse there but took interest trying to solve tierce/ tanala and quarte/ quartet for which local publications in the local language used to provide past performance details. I started making very small investment barely I could afford by filling up forms at in an authorized bucket shops spread away from racing venue. Once I made ten times of the same nomination in a single ticket. When I presented for payment the winning ticket the shop keeper looked at me up and down for a while and paid the small dividend 420 units instead of 4200 .Obviously he took me to be novice   I confronted him to show the official printout, he gathered himself to pay the full amount. The amount was small, nevertheless. Then came a day I cleared the tanala with a small investment as usual that carried 1500 times the investment. Alerted by previous encounter experience narrated above I made sure not to get possibly ridden to get accompanied by one Mr.Chaturvedhi my PIO acquaintance to collect the amount from the central payment center in crispy currency notesash free of any tax that was just sufficient to meet 80 percent cost of the WW Jetta car model. In a great relief, the feat largely resulted in reducing my wife’s embarrassingly excessive dependence on gracious friends(no doubt generously helping and willing to help to their credit for her day to day shopping needs)  and my own dependence on public transport like trams and call taxis. I did not fail to gratefully and reverentially acknowledge my uncle’s role of initiation in my boyhood true to the popular saying ‘catch him young’!. I didn’t,however,allow the success to get into my head and restricted my racing activity to sporadic levels because I had little spare time beyond  pressing career demands and heavy loads of responsibility staring at me back home in India and I didn’t want to take chances whatsoever. My apologies should my narration be found travelling too much into personal levels.

Now that I’m at the home stretch and within the striking distance of turning eighty in a few months I felt sharing my own real-life experience is not after all that bad either so long as it is interpreted to guide the current generation in a positive way. 

I concede that the question before us is yet to be answered. As most of you will agree the results of a race do not necessarily reflect to parade at the winning post in their sheer order of assessed merit. This can happen only if all of them are tried all out in each and every race. The utopian scenario is out of question as not all of them are triers in the true sense of the term. Factors such as  Lay off of a participant, distance suitability or lack of it, perception of a horse being too superior to be beaten the connections of the next  the next best horse opting not to clash and get beaten and instead taking it easy and  preferring to wait for its sure shot turn are some of the examples defying logical evaluation free of confusion. The poor level of overseeing also could compound and complicate the task of even smart punter for the worse. For instance, in a field comprising of contentious participants A,B,C,D  and other also rans, A the top nominee fails C wins due to A failing on some count. The smart(?) punter A loses.  It does not end with that.  When A overcoming its short coming wins in subsequently. Here again once bitten smart punter suffers confidence level syndrome and pays for not backing it. Is this the end of the story?  Not at all.  C reappears in a subsequent event. The smart punter interprets in his own way that C had beaten A which won subsequently enhancing the chances of C ignoring the fact that A’s defeat initially was occasioned by its own fault lines and not due to C’s edge over A. The story goes on and on.  In my considered opinion the intense knowledge of inter se handicapping, pedigree parameters, distance suitability track performance etc., etc., are not just good enough to frequent the payment counters. Some kind of forensic evaluation of performance charts on the table, though tedious and stressful needs to be applied and supplemented, more specially in Indian context to avoid losses if not to make big gains. This approach is bound to be quite time-consuming but could gradually found rewarding in the long term by way of practice and perseverance. I personally find the procedure is evolving all the time towards spotting clear cut winners to be pounced upon and yet throws up alerts now and then against pitfalls. A lone unambiguous winner is good enough for a day for a week even for a month instead of dabbling in all events and engaging constantly into a see-saw maneuver.

Thanks to the technological advancement and tools I create my own data base with my trembling fingers and take out printouts for data analytics to spot winners and  make best use here and there without any painful regrets.

The single most striking advantage gained by the mental exercise in the course of pursuit behind winners lies in strengthening neural networks in the brain and slowing down normal age-related cognitive decline not to speak of the pros of physical exercise involved in the tours/ rounds you make around  bookies’ ring and  ticket counters.

Best of luck

Ramanujan 

Camp/USA

Kolramsri:

Thank you for remembering the Horses name. To be frank I was an ardent fan of V.Shinde. The way he used to balance Horses indeed fantastic. Once in Pune his saddle slipped holding his saddle with one hand and reigns on the hand he won the Race. 

Regarding Honkong trip actually we did not go for money but we went for shinde. During 1978 Foreign Exchange allowed was only US $ 500 still we went to zaveri Bazar in Bombay exchanged rather bought in black another 500 dollars ansd with Return Ticket on Cathay Pacific we went  we were having exact monet to return home safely we played 200 Hongkong dollars both races 1500 Dollars we made we did not roll the amount and we expected that Shinde certainly will  win one Race but he won both the races allotted to him 

We went there for the joy of ourr Jockey winning the Races only.

Money was not the only consideration. Even the ticket also we took on credit only. Of course we paid the amount on arrival here. We were three friends. I am the only survivar now other vtwo ledft this world. But we had nice time in Mahalaxmi Races After the Races win or loss we used to go to  Kwality Restaurant near Band Box or Khandeel opp University to enjoy the evening with of course Kingfisher Premium !  Now I am settled in Chennai sweet memories flashes in my mind. We used to play only Shinde or Aslam Kader or Jagdsish To our surprise Aslam Kader by his facial expression  will show whether  he will win or not while making a round in the paddock Racing was too good in those days.

Another Japanese Jockey whose name was Mitchikova. Whee

nver he used ride in Penang  in 1990s we used take a trip to Singapore just to play his horse. We won many Races through him  We were mad after Races those years still we never exceeded our limit infact money was not the only consideration for us. But we had sufficient income  by way of salary but we never never went out of our boundaries. We never indulged in Heavy Betting. When we realised Races are manipulated by vested interests we stopped calculations and threw all our record books into flame and bet only on winning Jockeys. or stable. Late Trainer Byramjee was also our favorite stable. Very difficult to see a Trainer like Rashid Byramjee in the near future.

Ayyarnet

Winning in races and casinos happens once in a blue moon. If someone is regular visiter he is a 1000% looser.

The Q asked here is meaningless.Its  like asking will sun last for ever? No it will die one day. In long range there are no winners in races in any  corner of the world.

Unless Chanakya is living in some other planet other than Earth!!!!

Ayyernet Sir,

In a detailed way you explained your experience and how to bet on selected races...With this wonderful debate many of the punters learn the hidden things beyond racing and get controller over betting...Your suggestions are highly appreciatable...Thank you very much for your valuable words with frankness...With regards...Siva Ramakrishna.

@ Ayyarnet.   V. Shinde won 2 races in Hong Kong in 1978. Name of the Horses...SMALL PARCEL and..CROWN JUBILEE. Just refresh how much you won.

I regularly gambled Onn-Off  (Speculated is the decent word!) on horse-racing all over India for over 25 years with Mumbai's Mahalaxmi racecourse being my home away from home since i live in close proximity to the race-course. Whenever at home in Mumbai used to jog in the morning at the racecourse and later in the afternoon bet the horses during "Live Racing" or "Off-Course Betting". I was a down and out addict  to horse racing and luckily i had a steady income through employment and later my own personal business. I never ever increased my wealth through betting on race horse during my 25 years ++ betting career while having invested at least Rs 15 Lakhs ++ on horses during the same time.But honestly i enjoyed my time at the races and never ever felt bored or lonely although never a winner. During my racing career i won all the "CLASSICS" as a punter with "Be Safe" providing me my only Indian Derby win over the decades.Finally in 2017 i totally quit betting on Horse races akin to closing down a loss making company ! Today i am just a spectator and was lucky to have lasted 25 ++ years as a horse racing punter without going bankrupt .My advice is to enjoy your day at the horse races and if you win a certain day then remember you might lose the next days or a few day's later so don't get too elated with your "WINS" .Remember "HORSE RACING" is a wealthy  human's pass-time and sport and as a "Middle Class" punter survival and happiness on the race course is only through sytematic betting without losing your prime capital or job.I am canvassing for legalization of " SPORTS BETTING" in India . Writing  travel and video  bloggs is my hobby and thanks to my decades in horse racing i authored a self help blog on gambling addiction control.

It is possible to make money in Racing provided you do not bet all races. 99% of puters become losers every day because they bet every races without understanding Racing Program

 All Races can not be run honestly as per merit

1. To filter the Jackpot Tickets

2. To provide opportunity to Bookmakers to earn money

Innocent peopole play all reaces and ultimately lose their hard earned money.

To be honest Racing is not meant for an ordinary person without steady income. By virtue of friendship or to look for easy money they get into this trap. 

Favourite winning at 90 paise is a small fish put by the Bookmakers to catch a big fish on other Races.

Many why most of the punters do not understand this fundamental point.  Een sometimes out of your own calculations if you win you will not go home enjoy the evening and you will continue to play and ultimately felldown in the net spread by thge Book Makers.

Races are meant for Rich or who have steady income to hold them when they are down. 

Once you win you feel joy of winning and get addicted. To be honest in the beginning I was also a victim a but with sustained effort and understood the trics of the trade and slowly and steadily recovered my loss and made little money also, I will not boast I have purchasewd Rolls Royce or built up big mansion. Sorry it is not possible,

You can enjoy Racing as a Hobby and forget the epidsode of the week

In the beginning I used to maintain an Album of Photographs taken for every Race one at the bend just before entering the Straight and at the Finish.

Fortunately we had MAM and most of his Horses used to win and we had Aslam Kader and V.Shinde and Jagdish. With this trion we did make money. We did not play other races since we were not sure of winning. The main point was even if you lose frequently winning jockeys will win again again with a little commonsense you can recover or make money also.

During 70s  when Jockey Shinde was deputed Honkong I also followed him since I could not resist my temptation Fortunately with two other friends we bought RETURN flight ticket so that we are sure of return home safely. Fortunately Jockey Shinde won both the races he rode and we did not play other races since we did not know much about the horses there. We collected our cash and did not wander here and there went straight to Airport to return home since we were having little funds only On the whole itwas a nice trip.

My suggestion is  Making money is one thing and Playing Races  Racing is moreanother thing  First you must understand  that all Races are not run Honestly. Especially in any classic event if the betting level goes beyond imaginable level with sure win then chances are likely the Horse mayt not win BESAFE is a clear example.

Evenother wise I do not know why people bet at a very low odds with big amount That is also foolishless.

In I honestly say my method may not agreeable to others still I follow a stable of Frequently winning Jockey I follow Trevor. Even if he does not win also NO PROBLEM I can recover money later If I lose I will take it as granted my money is carried forward.

Evcen Trevor also I do not all the races he may ride. If you follow him regularly it is easy or you can predict whether he will or just for a ride

He will certainly try his best on Suleiman Attaulla Horse.

I do not depend on income from Racing It is just a Hobby and once like all others I too gotaddicted but with sustained efforts I gotrid of it and I play only a few selected horses and I do not bet all Races and if I lose also I do not bother since I do not indulger in Heavy betting. For living I have my own businewss income and I do not mix business funds for Racing. I maintain a separateBank Account for Racing and I take and put back .

With best regards to all.

ayyarnet

Dear Mr Raghavan I have posted my comments to Chanakya folder. That suits very well to your article also.

One thing I m seeing in Pune, Mumbai r punters behaviour. They take everything in their stride and accept the outcome. But in Chennai it's very dangerous to c few punters (rowdism, rogues) and shouting at officials bookies very often. Coz of such incidents our mind r disturbed and indulge in sudden decision with wrong betting.

One more point I would like to appreciate here is going  down by all replies I feel all punters in this forum are well versed and excellent knowledge in racing the King of Sports.

Mr Ranga Vyshnav

                        For your information, as for as I know,Hindu paper owners used to own some of the all time great horses ever raced in India.RED COCKED is one among them. I haven't seen a horse till now that won like RED COCKED up  to a mile. Fair Haven is anothor which was initially owned by S Ranga Rajan and later sold to Mr Gogineni Venkateswara Rao .It won all  the Indian classics.The present management looks to be more interested in cricket.

Thank you all gentlemen.

Kolramsri,

Vasan might have won big amount in races.  Whether it is jackpot or trinella or a single bet based on information is immaaterial.  The point is he won big, established a big studio.  

There may be many people like Vasan.  They are all exceptions to rule.  

My basic point is, it shall be next to impossible for any person to win in races.  

Munesh:

Yes.  Race betting is sure shot dirty habit where one loses finances,  health.  But, I must say, compared to all other forms of gambling, horse race betting has an inexplicale magnetic attraction on punters.  One may win 5000/- in a day; he will surely forget the 50,000/- loss he incurred in the previous week itself.

Whereas other forms of gambling (say cards, casino etc) there is a good chance of the punter getting disillusioned and quit that habit.  But, in case of horse racing,  it requires supreme determination to stop betting.    

Hals:

Yes.  The primary consideration is cut your losses.  Restrict your bets to two/three/four races a day.  Never overbet.  Never bet heavily on a 60ps/80ps horse under the assumption that the horse has already won and the actual race is only a formality.

Ranga Vaishnav,

Of all the newspapers, it was THE HINDU  which I called  as race-paper.  Track work, acceptances, race card, results and dividends not only of the main center but also dividends from other centers and also weekly reviews were being published in that paper.  However, editorial policy has changed and only BNG/MYS (main)/HYD/MUM race cards & results are published nowadays.  

Glasgow Prince:

Yes.  There are good examples of winners in race betting.   But, for every such winners, there are tens of thousands of punters who have lost everything they owned.

R Ramesh,

Very very negligible fraction of punters are blessed with so much discipline.  There are too many punters who consider themselves lucky if they can earn to the extent of paying interest to their debts.

Longer odds:

I agree.  If around 500 people can win in races, why not the rest?  There is  no answer to this question.  I will put a counter question.  Narayana-Murthy, Ambani (senior, now deceased) were able to build a mammoth establishment.  They were from a humble or modest background.  Why not others?  

Decent punter:

Every individual has ego problem.  When I posted this thread, I was worried that there may be very little or nil responses.  I posted this topic only as a counter to the one posted by Chanakya.  The replies are refreshingly honest and there are no pretensions.

All others: 

I agree with you all.  One may occasionally win big in races.  But 99% cases, such big wins will not be sufficient to clear all his accumulated liabilities.  And, the result: he will again and again indulge in betting and......

One good thing I was waiting for

On Sunday

2=8 Gift Of Grace

By Ameeta Mehra

See the odds then decide

I will play win if it is not odds on fav....

All the best

Dear Raghavan. From one angle, it appears, it is possible to win in Races. I have seen many give selection at Acceptance Stage itself. Only if they are present in the Racecourse, before the start of the race(armed with so much information)  can provide a 100% success rate.

Dear Raghavan, my earlier post to you was not published here. ok, No problem. I am away from home since the end of May. So my minimum donation to the Madras Race Club, by way of purchasing JP tickets, was withdrawn. Before last June, I used to play place bets, then I stopped any dealing with Bookmakers. 

Regarding S.S. Vasan From the information, I gathered He owned the Gemini Studio in 1940(place purchased from Subramaniam). Money Earned by placing a bet on a horse in Mumbai, sometime in 1946, which helped him to Produce the Movie CHANDRALEKA...

Racing is a curse on punting  category. Not only financially. The same amount of attention you devout to any other constructive work, you will end up as a leader in that field.This thing called racing drains you not only financially, it wrecks you emotionally also.Leaves you in pitiable condition.It is like some unknown evil spirit is taking revenge on you. 

Here are some quotes from a friend of mine who was very senior in gambling circles in Madras.He is no more now.

If you want to take revenge on somebody take him to race course and make him win ten thousand rupees.After that his life is finished for ever

If a person feels that he knows everything in racing , his wife's Thali bottu [golden ornement] will be missing from her neck.It is the last thing used for pledging

 This is a story I heard from my seniors in Madras. Big Boss used to go by Blue Mountain Express to attend OOTY races. Before he got down at Mettupalayam,  A\C coach attendent came and saluted him and asked him, very humbly, tell me one winner, sir, I want to put  a  small bet .Big Boss, instead of telling him some winners name, gave him one hundread rupee note and warned the fellow, if  I see your face in the race course at any time I will slap you.

I am repeating again it is a curse by an evil spirit.How you endure it  is up to you.No more no less.

Very very interesting article and suggestion / experience of most HTians further more interesting. Certainty in racing is uncertainty, we all know. But most of us are almost addicted to racing. If anybody can vomc out it's fine, if not let us find out a way through this column the ways and means to sustain in racing and find the possibilities of atleast not losing if not making much profit. My suggestion is please avoid all races, somebody may say its possible and prove it, it is all humbuk. It will never possible to make profit by playing all races. U select a system and follow strictly and stop with one or two bets for a day, with two units of your playing amount, don't bring extra money other than this. U can take the advice of well wishers and experts like SCS, Raghavan and others .But stuck to your decision finally. Please follow a pattern like only 3 year olds, 4y olds, class IV, or iii or ii or particular jockey, trainer, stable as u wish .Pl avoid V B, cl. I, classics where always the possibility of manipulation is rather high. Thanks.

@ Krish

My comment was based only on SSPF's post in which he mentioned 1950s and jackpot.

Mr. Vasan established Gemini Studios in 1940. I have no records of that time. In any period of time, establishing a film studio, required a lot of money. 

Horse racing is a great sport. If you follow racing as a sport, it's wonderful and rewarding. But if you try to earn your living betting on race horses, you may encounter disaster. 

If you just bet, you can't beat the races. But if you understand the OVERLAY, and bet on your choices, you have a chance. 

OVERLAYS are nothing but the center specific conditions, such as split timings, Trackwork pattern &   trainers/owners cyclic repetition factors. (EG. Trainer ESHWAR in Mysore has been repeating a double every race day) Helped me yesterday too...BERLIN to LANCASTER. Now odds were important here, since both drifted, but the repetition pattern helped.

Yes. There are persons who make a good living betting. They know horses and they know the overlays..

And, most importantly, One of the main requirements of a successful horse player is self-restraint...

EVEN THOSE WHO WIN TODAY WILL LOOSE TOMORROW.TAKE ONLY RS 500 TOTHE RACECOURSE AND TRY TO WIN 50000,NOT TAKE 5000 AND MAKE IT INTO 500.JUST A SPORT OR CONTEST OF LUCK.YOU CAN NEVERWIN IN THE LONG  TERM.

sipmle way for earning in RACE....  JUST.. follow.. INDIARACE.. 2 best, selections.. you will  never loose................  dont follow any tipster....., let them play and earn........Hail our... INDIARACE....... Tips......  

Yes ,you are rite its not possible to win .

D/sir

This is very big thing to win in racing..... I m in racing since 1976.....I used to go Delhi race course from Meerut...UP..... Then racing r on in Meerut race club too....on very first day... I play 40=RS on 3bets chice by my friend...in 4th race I said put 40=RS on horse no 1...he said it is 40 to 1...no need to play the same...but I do as I like...believe it wad win....1st day I got 1600 on my bet....Till date I m in race course loosing plenty of money and my career.....now I m in Meerut on a book daily 1000rs I m on payment section.... Now I m happy earning daily the same... My bookie using line from Madras....2k per day....he tells us fav kahin nahi aayega...when big bulls starting eating fav in bulk...today he anouannou 5 clear cut winner after getting colous of the same... What punter can do he has racing book... previous running....track work.... jockey on that....but if they r not going then who helps the entire punters.....fav to chap Gaya....after seeing betting trend... Fav kahin nahi hai...after seeing  big guns eating....this all happened when horses arrive on starting gates....so never play horse before reaching starting gates...rates r less...no problem...u will see the color of your horse.... money should return with profit ....if u play early @ 2 to 1...now it is 4 to one ....u r helpless....play selective race....on horse Tk many tipster r good...u have to choose ....today I choose turf sensetion... I paly his VB...then some place...in last no 8 b/w... I m not saying I m smart...but today my luck favor me to choose the right thing...never play all races....if u earn early...then forgot all...next day try for earning...races r daily but money never comes back.... don't put huge amount on a particular race.... Select horse ND saw his last position betting before starting point.....

Thanks for all .....

@ Turf Records,

I heard the same story. You may please check the horse named "Gemini". Mr. Vasan was tipped to play by either owner or trainer to play on WIN at long shot and told never enter the race track again. Those days no jackpot required to start a  film studio.

Respected Raghaven Sir & Sharma Sir,

You are 100% correct always...Your valuable opinions about racing & Punters are 100% true...Your suggestions are Eye-openers to many of the punters like me who are addicted to racing without proper knowledge...Very recently...after studying your comments I controlled myself very strictly...Thank you very much Sir...With regards...Siva Ramakrishna.

Thank you all genlemen!  For giving your views with so much clarity.

I had started this thread only as a counter to Chanakya's topic.  I was slightly worried because admitting loss in races is rather difficult.  Ego problem.  But, your replies were certainly reassuring.  Horetalk members are mature enough to not indulge in self praise. 

Once again thank you all.  

Racing is to be enjoyed as a sport , if you wish to earn from it  THEN it should be dealt differently. You have to invest your time as you would in any other line of work, also get the required education for it.

Many of the race goers MISS THIS POINT and then blame others when the fact of the matter is the decision was entirely theirs.

I have 45 years under my belt and have enjoyed most of it , Initially , I always thought I knew everything that need to be known , I had a few success but more failures.

Now I take this as a sport, indulge in it when I have time to do a proper study , I will not say I bring money home, however my outflow is very minimal considering the fact that all expenses related to racing which means travel, lodging boarding and sundry expenses are clubbed in my Racing account .

I read others views and respect their thoughts but I bet according to what my belief is , this give me the ablity to reduce or increase my bets and more important is that when i get more value for my money I bet more.

No one knows the result before hand, so it becomes imperative that you seek VALUE BETS be it play or lay.The most important thing is NEVER go overboard, assume you have 50 k to lose , then the most you should bet is 5 k.

This will keep you in the game and when your logic works for you then it boost the kitty.

Can one make money as a punter , the answer is NO , the odds are against you and they favor the house, so to survive you need to be both.

If you  guys remember late Vamon Sir,what a confident tipster he was indeed. RIP

Once he started with a place roll of 20 bets ,one bet  a day or sometimes 2 bets ,odds used to be low put a sure place bet to roll all amount you win till  we reach our 20th bet.I followed him.and made a good money starting my first bet with 2k only.

God bless him 

Dear Friends,

very interesting discussion has been going on regarding winning in races.I would like to add my own experience. In good olden days, The Hindu News Paper used publish reviews on all the races conducted during a week on Saturdays by an expert. I observed that whenever he declares that horse would be "Next time out", I used to play that bet and in 90% of the races, it was winning. Further, I wused to follow the Head lines of the best horses who had given the best track on a particular day in the head lines of the same Hindu. Hence there was no loss.. However, due to some reasons. the daily news paper stopped encouraging/publishing such news about horse racing in the recent past. The reviews by experts were totally stopped. However, the titles are being continued to be published for track in Hindu Plus edition, which I am following. I would like to suggest my friends to follow the same and 90% of such title holding horses (frequency) would win or atleast be placed, except in Class I and classics. For example, recently in Silent Guardian race, I have placed a counter bet (bookies call it eating) at 35 paise by seeing its disease notification on one ground(of course I do not know the severities of the said decease until one of our other friends have explained earlier in this forum) and strongly because it was not in the Hindu titles for track after January, 19 and I won a reasonably good amount. Another case is that  I played a bet on queen isabella in race no.79 and when it was withdrawn I have told my bookie earlier that the bet may be shifted to Capstone. It was Rs.2000/- for win. This was because in that whole bunch, only these 2 horses were there in the Hindu titles earlier long back==The 1st was given on 27/11/2018 with latest good tract on 21/5 and the latter one i.e., Capstone was given Hindu Title on 12-12-2018 followed by daily swimming two times from 4th June to 17th June. When Capstone won, I was not surprised because these two horses only were identified by The Hindu in Nov andDec.2018. Thus, if one maintains a record of hindu titles regarding the good tracks, I feel you can win several place bets at least if not wins. especially in classics and class I races.     

Is it possible to win in racing? A very pertinent question indeed. The question arises because we see punters around us losing on the whole all the time. Why does this happen?

My take is that although prima facie it may seem that punters go to the races to win some cash, in actual practice they go to the races to enjoy the thrill of betting, the thrill that gets generated through the uncertainty involved - the ‘high’ that they get in that short period of time. Why do punters get addicted to racing despite losing continuously? It is because of this thrill – the kick that they get out of betting in the hope of winning. For almost all the race goers it is a source of recreation rather than a source of income. We can easily see the difference if we look at the investment they make in terms of the efforts taken for upgrading their knowledge, understanding the nuances and so on. Even the big bettors who lost fortunes did so because they either relied heavily on ‘information’ or they just succumbed to the ‘kick’. There have been some lucky ones also like Sanjay Khan the famous bollywood actor who came back from the brink or Rajendra Kishan who hit the jackpot but they are exceptions to the rule.

Raghavan: You are very sincere, transparent and clear hearted person and put the fact straight forward without any hesitation. Number of other persons also placed their frank opinion, clear and straight and I compliment you all. 

Racing knowledge is attained over a period of time and one should not go for bigger betting stakes from the beginning, which results the return and recovery impossible. If you refrain yourself from temptation and control your emotions and prefer to go for smaller bets than your racing will be more enjoyable and some times profitable if not all times. What I gathered and noticed majority of punters are having lack of proper understanding with the racing subject and  no proper strategies are planned for betting. The unplanned approach and taking things easy every time  and granted,  not going to pay in long run.  Easy and quick money temptation factors are more responsible for punters losses. Cautious and responsible approach is the need of the hour to remain in contention. Many punters not learning a lesson from their past mistakes and not very serious to improve their knowledge and skills, this area is also to be paid lot of proper attention to avoid losses by punters. I wish everyone to identify their weaknesses and overcome or rectify them to enjoy racing and avoid possible risks and losses.

@Smart-Still-Poor-Punter

Your story of Mr. Vasan is hard to digest. In the early 1950s there were no jackpots at any club in India.

Owners point of view: Most of them struggle to get return of investment on race horse, 

and punters r discussing about making profit

Jockey point of view: 95% of jockeys are poor financially, struggling even for their daily needs, They are the ones who take horses past the winning post, why cant they make money.

Trainers point of view: Recently few trainers in hyd lost licence due to mounting debts, Narayan rao commited suicide, why???  because they were contineously loosing money on their own trained horses.

Raghavan, I agree with you. You are right! I also am very fascinated that you were able to call Chanakaya a spade, you're a courageous person. I admire your honesty and I hope you continue to be honest with us.

Let us start a competition where each punter puts what amount they are wagering on an horse and that way we can calculate whether they are winners or losers in a month. 

Dear Shri Raghavan,

Firstly please accept my sincere apology for not giving you the balance sheet of my winnings after a season some time / some year back for want of time. I hope you remember me answering similar post by you or some other person. I still follow the same method and with winning substantially and I have increased my unit bet to 100000/-. I do agree that after the implementation of GST my money back bets have increased to maximum. Still I follow the same method, even if I get 3 or 4 bets with positive dividend in a month. I am happy with it. Sorry, I could not implement your suggestion of splitting my bets to win/place because of fear of losing.  I don’t want to prove anything by posting this. Just remembered Shri Raghavan.

Yours sincerely

Amathya Raakshasa

I attend only Mumbai, Pune and Bangalore. Not regularly, whenever I like the card. I select only 3 races per day and bet for Rs.1000 each. I stick to my bet never change it. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. I have never taken a loan or borrowed money in my entire career.

For a month, I keep Rs.5000 seperately. If I win I attend next week and If I lose 5000 I never attend races for that month. Next month after my salary I attend race if card is to my liking.

Racing is my passion and try my luck then and there. Nobody can make a fortune in racing because it doesn't have fixed winning formula.

One has to play within his limits and bet low and not to be greedy.

In my Frank  opinion  raceing  is to enjoy  

If u want any income  from  raceing  u should  have  all types  of knowledge 

Including  trainers  jockey  and owner 

All centres  raceing  is different  don't  play  for fancy 

When ur betting  

Try to bet each way if ur selected races

Selact per day 3 good races

Regards 

It's highly impossible to win in the racing, I too lost much amount in racing but when I am in tough times I won huge amount in the tune of JP. But on the whole my loss is huge amount. 

It is just not possible to win in races, I totally agree with you Mr. Raghavan.

From my experience it is possible to reverse the trend subject to the following strict measures that one should take.

A strict unit should be maintained.

At times if unable to locate a bet in the card, keep away, do not visit even for fun.

A couple of bets should be zeroed on, and if on succeeding first bet, the second bet is within the profit, then only proceed. In case of losing the first bet go for the second bet and call it day.

Cultivate this habit and if you come out without bruises, say, for at least six months. If successful think of going for a third bet provided you have a horse. Otherwise stick to your plan A  of 2 bets only.

@ Mr Raghavan,

You are one among the few 'genuine' punters that I come across ever since HT's inception. By 'genuine', I mean you don't make any kind of big claims like many others do here, very frequently. You know I have given a full account of my racing life that began in early 90s and ended in 2014 on a self resolve. I just want to make it brief here so that 'new comers' and those who are already there for some time and still think that they can make it benefit by reading it.

Making money in racing is next to impossible. There have been days when I had made one to two lakh rupees daily but there had also been days that I used to go without any money. If anyone is going to call me a 'fool' because I did not learn to stop after making up to one or two lakh rupees, I just want to tell them that without investing huge sums it would have not been possible for me to make so much. It means the 'trial' kept continuing and ultimately ended in a damp squib.

Not only I lost several lakh rupees in racing but also brought in many of my friends and relatives (when I was in Chennai) as I thought as a news reporter I was more matured than others loitering around the ring. In the end, I realised I am nothing like many others, who invested much more than that. (The person you have referred to in your post is one such case).

My Dad used to tell me that Mr Vasan hit a jackpot in early 50's with which he built the famous 'Vasan Film Studio' and never returned to racing. How many of us can do that? I am no Vasan, although I had also won many Jackpots, racing from a few hundred rupees up to several thousands (the biggest JP I cut was for Rs.80,000/- in Mumbai).

After I took a firm decision to quit racing in 2014 (again not only because I continue to remain a loser but mainly because I started feeling that my personal life was getting compromised due to racing), I retrieved my lost ground, leading a very happy life in Kerala. I built a house couple of years ago with my and my teacher wife's income (let me not tell a lie like Anusree who claimed that he has built a house recently purely on the money earned from racing?). 

As all of you know I remain closely involved in racing activities despite stopping entering any race course. That's what I would like to call passion for the sport. 

I totally agree with you that it can be only "loss, loss and loss" in racing and the quantum of loss is always measured based on the investment one makes. The more you investment, the higher you are likely to lose. 

 I sincerely believe that your post will serve as an eye-opener to many. 

If 100 to 500 punters are winning decent money then why not big punters?? If these 100-500 punters form 1% of punters, why not 99% others??.If 1% punters can win, playing under similar circumstances, it means the problem is not with racing, but with the punters. Its the punters who need to corrects themselves, their approach, attitude and reset their targets.

I have neither made a fabulous fortune nor severely hit  from betting on horses. I dont keep an account hence.

The only indication is, whenever I come out of Races with a cheerful face, one can assume I have incurred losses and when I come with a near normal face, I made profits. Thats the hint for others to judge.

Making profit each day is highly impossible for majority of us especially considering current racing conditions in India.

GST is literally killing the sport slowly. There has been some improvements off late though.  For ex live track feed etc.. Hope GST clarification could facilitate online wagering. 

I feel it's difficult for even insiders including handicappers, ardent punters Barring a few who really are experienced bunch. 

I would like to add one person who is in profit everyday ?500/- to ?1000/- or more & that person is called "CUTTER". He is not worried about how racing is going on (Fav. Or Upset). I know this because my friend do this job for last 45 years, I call him as 'DADA' because he is 70 year old. He helps punter as well as bookmaker & gets his commission. 

In a long run you are a loser

One can only win if you can afford to lose 20000 and then  one bets 100 200 

A good debate indeed. I don't think this debate works as most of us don't come out with facts.  I have an idea for this. Let's forget the past. We shall start something like a PTR contest where punters should post their bets with amount they are going to invest. Let's start this is a pilot project for one month and the results will be out. If we are sincere enough to post the real bets then yes we can get an answer whether any punter can win at races. Matured punters know the answer.

Yes it is possible 

It is on you how you will take horse racing .

I will tell you 1 thing play one horse win place shp 

Dont see rates. Only see your selected horse .

That's it .

If I start telling it will become very big so in short play only one horse which your thinking this will win play that horse .only your choice horse. Don't see rates .