SSPP has expressed his views that War Hammer is even superior to Elusive Pimpernel.

It is a tough task for any horse to win BNG derby & MUM derby in a gap of one week.  War Hammer has done that; and with effortless ease.

Anyway what SSPP has said was only his views.  One can agree or disagree with his views.  Dissent note is always welcome.  And more welcome is such dissent note is well supported with logic and reason.

But what we are seeing?  Chanakya calls SSPP immature.  He calls Cruise immature.  Of course, I do not care about what he calls me.  Three fingers will be in his direction when he points one accusing finger at me.

Chanakya is a person with high level of arrogance and superiority complex.  But, no one cares about either his tips or his arrogance.  And Chanakya knows this very well.  

If he is really talented, he would have posted all his comments/tips etc in his own blog.   I think there are more than 20 boggers on horse racing in India.  Some people also charge for their tips.  But no one deserts his blog and instead tweets here.

Only because of me he restarted his own blog.  After 7 years interval.  But to his shock, he noticed that there is no visitor to his blog.  So he abandoned his own blog (after 5-6 months of posting) and is boring us in this site with his crackpot theories.

I warn you all.  Do not get misled by his tall claims.  NO BODY CAN BE A WINNER IF ONE BETS IN ALL RACES, SOMETIMES 3 HORSES IN A SINGLE RACE.

     Stating here correct  facts regarding Elusive Pimpernel.

     Elusive Pimpernel was beaten in his thirteenth start; not his last start.

     Nobody blamed Aslam Kader for LATE challenge. He had taken lead before final bend and was beaten on post by Consequence who came from behind. If anything, jockey was guilty of going into lead too soon  considering that he was carrying 16 kgs more than the filly who had won her five previous starts though she was disqualified in one of them  after double objection. 

Chanakya,

What is your point?  Are you telling that it was not me who pointed out your goof up on Malavika?  

I never said that I am the only person AND first person who caught you lying.  A few punters were amused when you claimed dividend but preferred to stay silent.  

I only said that no bookie will pay place dividend on any horse that has finished third in a field of less than 8.  And of course minimum 4.  

You never corrected it straightaway.  You first tried to argue about the odds.  That you got 1/4th of win odds for place bet.  And then you spoke something about running account with bookies!  

You have won 25,000/- on derby day!  Absolutely no problem whatsoever.  I have succeeded in forcing you to claim winnings in thousands nowadays.  Not in millions.  Actually, I was expecting that your bogus claims nowadays would have inflated to crores.  No body know for real whether you won 25k or lost 50k.  But you claim you have won!  But my point is nowadays you are even afraid to talk about millions.

We are talking about maturity or immaturity.  Your earlier claims of millions gains were damning illustration of your immaturity.  So was your claim of place dividend on Malavika.  So was your claim that you got 1/4th win odds for place bet.  I do not bet with bookies, but know such concessions are allowed only for each way bet.

@ Cruise,

your  maturity  is  evident  from  your  immature remarks.  no  further  comments...

@ Raghvan.,

You are  nothing  but a re-incarnation of  Joseph Goebbels who  kept on  repeating  lies thinking  few germans  may  believe  him...

Someone  else has  pointed out Malvika's mistake -NOT  YOU  and  I've  immediately  corrected it. Don't bloat  over  it. 

You can't  give  a single  tip even when asked  or  challenged  by  more  than a  dozen people  and  gloat  over full  page  blah blah on  these  sites - never posting  a  single  paragraph to enlighten  the  readers.

Yes  I 've  won lakhs  by  rolling  on  5 runners  in April 18 Mumbai  races, even  on  Derby  day  on  2 Februay  my  selections given  in  the tips  thread of  this  forum have won  Rs.  25,000...

I understand  your  bitterness, which  comes  from  your  inability  to  win inspite  of  slogging on  racecourse  for  more  than  4  decades. Your  helplessness  encourages us - the  winners, to win  more and  more  and show that winning  needs  skill which  you  don't  have...   

Cruise Bangalore,

If I want to taunt or criticise Chanakya, I do not need anybody's shoulder/s. 

On one issue, that is place dividend on Malavika (malavika finished 3rd in a 6 horse field), I think I have blasted Chanakya at least 200 times.  On his fake claim of roll bet on favorites, where he claimed that he converted Rs.2000 to one million, I think I have posted 500 letters questioning the veracity of his claims.  On his claim of expertise in applying numerology/astrology to horse racing, I have condemned him with so many posts that he has meekly dropped that subject.

In this post, I only agreed with your view of calling Chanakya's post an essay in immaturity.

This is an interesting discussion. How does one assess if a horse is among the all time greats? I think we would have to consider some parameters - the sheer ability of the horse, the opposition he faced,  consistency, versatality, longevity and ability to accelerate quickly in difficult situations. There can be no dount that War Hammer is a horse of exceptional ability, consistency and versatality. The opposition he faced however has been somewhat modest. Going by the Major's article, despite the presence of all the regional derby winners the average rating of the Indian derby field at 72 was the lowest for ten years. That does enable us to place his derby victory in some perspective because the manner of victory depends on the caliber of the opponents. On the remaining two counts, he has yet to prove himself. He has done everything asked of him so far. He has a good chance of joining the list of all time greats. 

The three horses that have left a lasting impression on me are Squanderer, Royal Tern and Elusive Pimpernel.

I have had the good fortune to be in Melbourne in November on 4 occasions to visit the Flemington Race Course on the Melbourne Cup Day.

As most of you know,24 horses,4 years old and above need to Qualify to be able to run in MC over the previous years and they could be from any part of the world.

While VRC finalises 23 participants 2-3 days before the First Tuesday of November when MC is run,the 24 th slot is decided by the performance of a few horses which have run over 2400 or even 2800 M at other Centers.

Thus,quite a few horses do run over long distance just to be able to qualify for the gruelling Melbourne Cup which is run over 3200M!!.

So,running long distances within a short span of 3-5 Days is not considered a big deal ,elsewhere in the Racing world.

Having seen War Hammers every run at Bangalore and in particular,the Derby on the 26 th January and the ease with which he won,I had no doubt that he will put it across the other 7 Derby winners in the Indian Derby.

so,I was pleasantly surprised to see bookies offering 3 to 1 when they opened and grabbed the opportunity to make some money!

He will most certainly win the Invitation Cup and I expect many older horses to shy away from participating.

We may have no more than 8 horses running in the Invitation!

My take on his success abroad is-- let us not be too optimistic ,considering the poor performances of our earlier horses.

Dr.K.R.Nath

Hi Friends,

     'Comparison is the thief of joy', they say. However, that doesn't apply to horse racing, I believe, as racing itself thrives on wild comparisons and imaginations.

     'War Hammer' has got eight different opportunities - each one tougher than the other - to establish that he is a 'King' in the making. The amount of criticism he had to face even before he could run in the Indian Derby was really too much. Comments like "he has travelled a lot", "he is meeting with better horses", "there are many Derby winners this time" etc were belied in a matter of 2 min and 28 secs by this wonder horse. I am happy that WH put all speculations to rest by winning the Derby in utter disregard of his 19 rivals.

     Now, a section of punters want to again belittle WH's win by lamenting Juliette's late try or his hiding behind a wall of horses for the major part of the race. Whose fault it is? Did WH's trainer instruct Colm O' Donoghue not to hit the front or catch WH's tail from the beginning? These are all mischievous remarks that don't behove of a good expressionist.

     Let any other horse win the Invitation and no one has said it should not. My contention is that WH has made mince meat of all the horses - sans Adjudicate and Star Superior - that are going to compete in Mysuru for the coveted race. Let Adjudicate or Star Superior win. But if WH downs the curtains on both these horses, still this section of punters will have something else to say like 'let WH go abroad and show his credentials".

     These arguments are what keep the racing live and kicking. Let it be as healthy as it can so that all of us can enjoy the exchange of information. I am 100% confident that WH will be offered a price less than evens in the Invitation and he will prove that he is a 'cut above the class' once again. Not 20 or 22, this animal can keep on winning until he is retired. That's my observation though. Thank you

As of now WARHAMMER is the best horse and stands tall among other runners. Whether he will continue his winning streak throughout the carrier is remain to be seen as it all depends upon how she progresses in his physical fitness , track trials, and other aspects. Hence it is too early to adjudge him as best of best. He has justcompleted  8 events so far and has a long way to travel to compare with other champions like, ELUSIVE PIMPERNAL, TRACK LIGHTENING, BUGS BUNNY etc.

The topic seem to have lost its track and heading elsewhere towards analyzing one"s maturity or otherwise. Hence please guys please stick to the topic under discussion.

Thank you.

Hello Chanakya,

As a kid I would hear elders say that with age comes wisdom.
Well, I guess, you have proved them all wrong.

Hello Raghavan,

If SSPS has claimed that War Hammer is better than Elusive Pimpernel; he has given explanations for that. Whether you take it or not is left to you.

I have seen many great horses in my racing career and War Hammer certainly ranks among the top.

I am yet to see an Indian derby field comprising of 7 derby winners and to beat such a lot with ridiculous ease is certainly the hallmark of a champion horse.

I  have seen Elusive Pimpernel cover more than 5l in the final furlong to beat Diablo at Bangalore. That electrifying run is still etched in my mind.

And what I saw last Sunday rivaled that. 

I was forunate to have witnessed both of the mentioned races 'live'.

I was told that Squanderer too did the same but I was not around in racing then.

Only the likes of Glasgow Prince or Chanakya would be able to recant that performance.

Raghavan, just see the video replay of the race ( War Hammer ) once again and do let me know your opinion.

I shall answer further once I hear your take.

regds,
Cruise

PS Raghavan, if you intend to fire at Chanakya using my shoulders then I would like to request you to desist from doing that. Please stick to the topic.

War Hammer is one among the great horse according to me. Back to back Derbies in the span of 7 days and travelling hundreds of kilometres without any rest and banging all the runners by 8 lengths is mark of great horse. No doubt, even I may support him next time.

E. Pimpernal has won 21 out of 22 times ( not sure about the numbers ) but lost once in his entire career.

War Hammer is not even half the way, Bumrah is a good bowler, no doubt, but you can't say he better than Kapil Dev.

Cruise Bangalore,

SSPP has expressed his opinion that War Hammer is even superior to Elusive Pimpernel.  

Five years from now, there may be some other horse that shows superb performance and someone may say that horse is superior to War Hammer.

If anybody does not agree such assessment,  they are welcome to give their views.  To dismiss such opinion itself as immaturity is the height of arrogance.

@ Cruise,

Maturity  does  not  come  with  age or  experience - it  comes with  logic  and correct analysis - Im not  sure  whether  you  have  any  of  the  two...

I've  been  watching races  when Thundestorm was running  in  his  fading  years and  watched  Squanderer  in  his  18  races  as  well  as Elusive  Pimpernel's  runs  including  the  last  one  where  he  carrying  59  or  60 kgs.  was  beaten  by  a  filly  carrying  only  46  or  47  kgs. ONLY   by  a shorthead. Many  punters  blamed  the  rider- perhaps  Aslam Kader,  for  the  LATE challenge...

All thesev greats  have  performed to  the expectations  of  the  punters and  so  did  War Hammer. But  winning  8  or  10 races does  not  put  any  runner in  the  bracket  of  'greats'....

Both  the  abovementione  greats  have  won  18 and  22  races  respectively  and  LOST  only  one  race - even  in  that  race  they  were  on board!

Hope  you  will learn  something 'new'  before  you make  comments  on  maturity...

  Be safe timing 2.27.72 Notgreat timing for him no opposition more dud  horses so he win if Juliette had a clear run I will appreciate this horse         let us see in invitation   fight between adjudicate  Juliette and war hammer on march 1st  but a great riding from inform jockey Suraj narredu 

Guys

There is a valid reason of War Hammer winning Indian Derby without contest which most punters have no clue.  However,  don't expect similar performance from WH in Indian Turf Invitation cup to be held at Mysore.  Hence,  take care. 

Beware guys

Invitation cup is in Mysore

Whr horse like desert god loses to a mediocore feild 

No doubt war hammer is a good horse and should win

But Inn Mysore sorry to say they always have surprise 

Didn't the great expert Ruchi say that Juliette will win both Indian Derby and Invitation?

Where's he now?

Dear SSPP Sir,

While WARHAMMER's win gives all-round joy for those who trusted his potential, your style of writing in the HT gives immense pleasure to everyone who happens to go through it. Such a fantastic writer you are. 

I adjudge you as a human WARHAMMER.  Let your services be continued for the benefit of the racegoers so that they may be alert in their risky investments in future.

I Fully endorse the views of My Guru, Mr Chanakya.Would also like to Add apart from War hammer,the Present lot of 4 year olds looks to be just plain Average horses.When Salazar broke the course record,i was expecting War hammer  also to do the same even though he came close.This performance alone does not allow War hammer to be compared with the Likes of Elusive Pimpernal.

You will see where War hammer stands when he clashes with better 5 yearolds in the invitation cup at Mysore.Irrespective of the merit of horses,Suraj will surely Pick Star Superior in the invitation,that Alone should give us a hint as to who is the better One.

Lets wait for the First week of march for the exitement to Begin.

WAR HAMMER earnings till date is 2,73,61,453

Which horse has the highest earnings in Indian history?

I would like to see this horse running in "DUBAI WORLD CUP"

The Owners already hinted that they will go international.

Great horse and good job by the trainer to keep the horse in pink condition.

ALL THE BEST!

Hello Chanakya,

What would your reaction be if the same is stated of your observations ( being im-mature ).

A horse which won the Bangalore derby last week, travels to Mumbai and then makes the race cease to exist much before the deciding furlong. For your information, the field included 7 derby winners. I am not sure if any such rare instance in the past.

The etchings on the Invitation Cup has already begun. WAR has been etched and he just needs to HAMMER the field to complete the rest. 

Mark my words, baring physical niggles or mishap, the above is a reality.

Time restricts me as I am presently in Mumbai.

regds,
Cruise 

War  Hammer is  a  very  good  horse- no  doubt  about  it.  But  placing  him  in  the category  of  E Pimpenel  and  few  other geats  is  im-maturity. Let  him  run 18 to  20  races and  winsome  good  grade 1 races  then  only we  should  put  him  with  the  older greats. He  has  a  vey  bright  future...

War Hammer undoubtedly undisputed king as of now & continues to be unconquered till he retires to the stud. One of the best in the circuit & has registered its name in the Hall of Fame of Indian racing as one of India's great.

The horse of the season out of( AIR SUPPORT - SOVIET LAKE ) from kunigal stud what a masterpiece he was never a loser from the start with being trained by prasanna kumar it might be his horse of a life time as a trainer to win the Indian derby so happy for him. 

Horse racing is biggest luck game in the world only roomers I'll kill the punters those predictions calculations this all like dumbest thing pedigrees I'll not make anything when horse in form there are no matter if he run 7 days before are  1one day before its just form of horse rider effort and trainer talent punters luck...... Just look at before lady in lace she won one ounce derby she won 1000 gunnies  and now Warhammer if ur in form u have a luck no one not catch you....... Great things will come always in struggle.. 

Suraj used  his experience well and he manage to took war hammer in front  that was main part of the derby where Juilitte 3rd 4th from last, apart from last 4th last possion to first 4th not easy even col o dono used his wip just in last 200M........

Julliatte has class and deffinely she will beat war hammer in invitation...2020

@ Rkshmed

When I said 'War Hammer' is my best horse India has come to see, it's for many reasons like the price for which it was purchased, the mediocre stable where it belonged to and the 'never-say-die' attitude of the horse. Why I wish to replace 'Elusive Pimpernel' with 'War Hammer' is for these reasons and a few more. 'Be Safe', on the other hand, wanted to do big after winning the Indian Derby in record time but faltered. I think 'War Hammer' will go places from here and see to that he remains unconquered till retired. 

Having said that, there cannot be comparisons between horses of different generations. It's like comparing the skills and talent of Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli? But one thing is sure. Like Kohli has started breaking one record after the other, 'War Hammer' will also rewrite each and every record available in Indian racing history, and thereby being labelled as the 'Best of Best Horses' very soon. By doing so, we are not degrading the achievements of 'EP' or 'BS', right?

The Invitation Cup is going to be quite interesting..... to pick the second and third places? All of us will unanimously agree that 'War Hammer' has no worthy opponent among the present timers and it's going to be only a fight-for-places story.

Let's celebrate the authoritative Indian Derby victory of 'War Hammer' for some time from now. Thank you

WAR HAMMER 

The horse of the season out of( AIR SUPPORT - SOVIET LAKE ) from kunigal stud what a masterpiece he was never a loser from the start with being trained by prasanna kumar it might be his horse of a life time as a trainer to win the Indian derby so happy for him. 

SURAJ is concentrating only in classics...  So he will ride WAR Hammer....  Another classic to his records...... 

Hi to all the fans of WAR HAMMER. .He is some specie in  this horse racing as far as indian racing is concerned .. He cud well be the  horse of our hearts to raise the Indian flag high in the  international circuit. .Very  optimistic  about his chance  in the invitation cup. ..suraj will have to decide between  his luved horse star superior n the star WAR HAMMER  for the invitation. .I hope he makes the right call.. coz I think he the hammer should  n will get the job done  in the invitation.. For us the fans of WAR  HANMER  hopefully wins the invitation cup with ease n go further in international circuit n raise indian flag high..He is a freak n much more lourels r waiting...All the best to prasanna ji n his team..A Big heartly congratulations to them all...GSL..

We should  respect  warhammer  performance  its excellent smiling person Prasankumar for his good  efforts to make sure to win good luck feature 

Congratulations WH and it's team for reproducing in no time....All credits to this Wonder horse..

@ SSSP  .But My all time great is still BE SAFE...which was rated not by any of us but by Suraj Narredu himself as the best horse India has ever produced...

Though the field size was good, WH had much weaker opposition....There's no matching horse that Western Indian Trainers could produce to match strides with him.

WH is definitely the best now.....but when it comes to the Best of the best, there's no WH/EP/Jacqueline/DG/ In the Spotlight.......one and only BE SAFE!!!

Margin is not indicative all times, It depends on Jockeys interest .....Let's look at the Gallop....Does any one have that as Be Safe..?  Not even nearer!!

Regards 

Suraj may ride star superior and war hammer ridden by Trevor..

War hammer,s win in the Indian derby is on the expected lines. The best horse has won thanks to the godfathers of the game not playing any hide and seek tricks.

However one cannot forget the questionable riding of the foreign jockey LEIGH ROCHE on the derby week end espicioully on VALEGRO who has played the roll of spoilsport.

Isn't it?

Suraj might choose War Hammer in the invitation...and in case he chooses Stat Appearance...Srinath will ride War Hammer

Hi Aravind

Dont make haste

The Invitation is between War Hammer n Juliette.

Star Superior doesn't stand a chance unless the Poonawalas engage a good jockey like Egan.

Suraj is with War Hammer n watch Juliettes run today n ill know why I'm saying this.

Dont forget Adjudicate too, who I think will finish ahead of Star Superior.

Cheers

The Joker 

Hi

War Hammer is a champ.

Ws at 3.5/1 in win and 70 p in place.

I fully endorse each and every word of smart  still poor punter .

Congratulations to owners trainer and Suraj Narredu. Brilliant win. Now it's hetween Star Supreme and War Hamner in Invitation. Suraj will be on War Hammer and owner of Star Supreme has to look for another jockey.

We Hammmer what a champion horse,

He Hammer all the champion.

I played @ 3.30/-