Hello Chanakya,

Good and valid suggestions with regard to taxation but the problem is, will they have any talers?
The GST council met recently but not a word was spoken about reducing GST slabs to get our economy back in shape.
I do hope atleast in future they do consider that for the good of all.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Buddy,

Am I discussing the ills of horse racing or what ails it in our country?
I fail to understand what the points raised by you has to do with high taxation levied on horse racing.

regds,
Cruise

Buddy,

You were a hard core gambler.  And you were doing all the betting with the bookies.

Well.  Cruise_B'lore is a tote player!  So, why are you engaging Cruise B'lore in a long conversation?  If he is betting with bookies, he would not have cared to start this topic at all!  He is a tote loyalist.  Like me!  

Do not get carried away by his statement that he wants to save industry.  He will understand the harsh practical & realistic things if and when he engeas himself in that direction.  In this google era, he asked for contact numbers / address of GST authorities.  Earlier, he was fully confident that the Government will reduce the GST.  Nowadays he is only hoping for such a move by the Government!

Cruise - i was a hard core gambler connected with people working in the course so I know how the system works - let me tell you when longer odds horse win its the bookie who benefits because in their books they lose on first and second favourite - In most cases longer odds win because of malpractice with the favourite........

You like long odds i know but there are many long odds in one race - and they win mostly because favourite is not in.-not on job-sometimes both first and second fav.

Cruise - you are missing my point -  High tax is one reason agreed but for racing to florish malpractice have to be looked into - let me tell you the Indian NRI does not trust Indian horse Racing- they gamble but avoid indian racing -

Even our own people here dont trust - look the number of people in [negative] percentage wise is too much/huge - all because of malpractice - so to florish malpractice need to be tackled - we need more percentage of punter's winning

Hello Buddy,

You seem to have gone off the track. What has the points ( negative ones ) raised by you got to do with high level of taxation?

I am only hoping for a reduction of the high taxation ( 28% ) on horse racing so that it gets back to its previous thriving one.

regds,
Cruise

This industry has got a bad name because majority lost money -some heavily  -  even those who are level money wise have wasted their time energy in futile chase of money and are actually losers .very few have won.

Why majority lose in a game of skill its only because of the Trainers Malpractice - Punters need bookies where else will they go -tote is not an option - low tax /bookie combo along with proper CCTV on runners 24 hrs before start of race is required - the malpractice by trainers will get diluted or disappear in that 24 hrs. 

Cruise_B'lore,

Don't  forecast  doomsday for  horseracing 'in' India. It  will  not  happen in our lifetime...

Perhaps  it  may  never  happen  even afterwards, till Indiand  find  another source  of  gambling...

Requesting/cribbing/crying/protesting  to  reduce  betting  tax will  not help nor  will  be listened  to  by authorities.

These  clubs  have  represented and  failed many  times because  they  do  not  have  any 'promising' or 'beneficial' offer for  the  govt.

Current  situation will  affect the revenue  collection  of  the state as well as  the  central  govt.

Presuming , racing  may  start from  August- earlier  or  later; thes  clubs  have  2  options:

1) continue with same tax regime and  keep pleading...

2) promise& declare that they  will 'PAY' same (or 10% more?)  tax to  govt. and reimburse the  shortfall if  any, during  this  financial  year - IF the  govt  reduces  the  tax rate  on  racing  between 5 to 10%...

Will they  do that? perhaps  not...

Then status  quo  will  be  maintained...

Buddy,

What you said is 100% correct.  People visit race course only with the intention of betting.  

I am amused whenever anybody speeks about their love for horses, horse owners, horse breeders or horse racing industry.  If they really love horses, then at least they should narrate one or two things done by them in favor of the horses.  I love horses, cats, dogs, donkeys etc.  But at the maximum, I may give two or three biscuits to dogs. 

Kolramsri,

Right.  Your friend is a man who knows his limits and bets to the extent of his income.  I do not think that horse racing is closed for ever; so there is every chance that he will resume his betting once races re-start.  Of course, if he gives up race betting, it shall be rather good for his financial health.  My best wishes to him.

Anyway, there are many punters who used to take unlimited loans  debts to fund their racing habits.  For them the last three months are blessing in disguise.  

BVS Prasad,

One should explain all the problems of a punter to the authorities who have power/authority to reduce the GST!  Your argument may be reasonable.  But, I do not have even 1% expectation from the GST council.  It is nearly 3 years since GST is implemented.  We should be happy if and when the races are resumed, the Government does not think of some additional cess on race betting.

Race joker,

Racing will not survive even one day if the betting is removed.   You are right. The perfect proof of that is the mock race.  If there are 5000 bettors inside the race course for the last race of the day, there will not be even 100 people who will stay back to watch the mock race. 

Cruise_B'lore,

Your passion for horse racing industry may be enormous.  But, always be realistic.  Do not shed any crocodile tears if horse racing stops completely.  In any case, it is only the bookies, rogue trainers/jockeys and corrupt, shameless turf club management who are being benefited at the cost of hapless punters.   If racing stops, then do only one thing.  Goli maro!

Hello Race Lover,

You have yourself vouched for what I seek - a reduction of GST.
that will benefit the punter community as dividends would be much higher. Present rate of GST is literally driving the punters away from the sport because of poor payouts. Only solution is what I seek.

Punters too are an integral part of the sport along with the owners. Both play an integral role. The owners by investing on horse enabling punters to have a go on them. Not just the punters but many owners too love to take a punt. 

Hello Buddy,

No one forcing anyone to develop any love or passion for the sport. It is left to the individuals ( punters ). All I seek is some concern for the sport that is going through troubled time due to high taxation ( 28% GST ). We owe that much considering our involvement with this thrilling sport.
That's it!

regds,
Cruise 

90% people who buy a ticket and enter the course are in because of betting the other 10% are the Trainers ,Jockeys Syces Breeders and staff- this10% get free entry and are earning in the industry .

The owners atleast 70% are in for gambling only gambling -take out the gamblers/bettors and see what you have got . I gambled all my life never had any love for horses - it was all about money -  small percentage of people/ punters do have a genuine love for horses .

Any one can take initiative step to explain the government about GST problem. If we discuss in this forum about GST who cares. One should explain all the problems regarding GST to government officials & political leaders, it may be useful.

Raghavan. A friend of mine who gets a monthly income of 1,70,000, by way of high-level pension and rent from his House, never had his bank account shown more than Four figure balance after Tenth of every month. After staying with his son in the U.S., he returned by the tenth of last  March. His expenses around 5,000 for the Airtel Landline bill and medical expenses around 5,300 for the past four months. More than him His wife is so happy to see the balance in their joint account swelled to 6,60,000. I don't think my friend will be indulging in Race betting, in the future, because there will be no horse racing.

Cruise blore says:

"Here I am imploring for reduction of GST for the very survival of our racing industry and we have one here only harping about 'betting' in horse racing as though horse racing is all about that."

I like your sense of humor Cruise blore.

Do you mean racing can survive without betting? Among all sports in the world Horse Racing is the only one which will collapse the very next day if betting is removed.

Kolramsri,

Not only you!  Nearly 90% of horse punters are happy because of this virus scare. 

Today is day no 91 without racing.  Entry fees 50.  Race book/paper 40.  Auto charges to & fro race course 120. If the situation is normal, there would have been 55 to 60 days racing during 13/3/2020 to 11/6/2020.  

So, an average punter who bets 2200/- per race has saved a minimum of 75,000/- beause of his nil betting.  Another 12,000/- towards entry fee/book/auto.

It is a pity that many race punters are not aware of this gift from the Government courtesy Coronavirus. 

Cruise B'lore,

So you are interested in saving the industry.  Breeders, horse owners, employees etc can definitely prosper if the GST is reduced to reasonable levels.  My advance hearty congratulations in your noble venture.

Whereas I am having strong fixation in betting.

Well.  Carry out your mission.  Do not care if Raghavan attempts to lay speed breakers in your path. 

At the same time, I also request you to save Tobacco industry.  Because of high GST, there are too many non smokers.  Economy will prosper if more and more people develop the habit of smoking.  There are many labourers employed in tobacco industry.

I also request you to save liquor industry.  Because of high GST, too many people are not drinking.  If those tee totallers also join the mainstream and consume liquor liberally, than the liquor industry will also flourish.

I have a strong fixation against bookies.  I will be speaking only about the 10% tax that they collecting.  They cheat the club, Government.  So, certainly your attempt is several thousand times better.  Let the Almighty bless you.

Imp: Kindly discard the previous posting sent by me.
Thank you

Hello folks,

I kinda believed in the phrase - " The vulture is a patient bird".
Now it certainly rings true with the flocking in of one.

regds,
Cruise

I am happy, there is no racing since the middle of March. I will be happiest if the racing stopped forever. Why I should worry about the people connected with the running of races when nothing is free, and they are not doing any charity.One way or other all of them after our money only, whether it is Tote or Bookmaker. How I wish now, the Coronavirus should have surfaced in the 1970s.

Hello folks,

Here I am imploring for reduction of GST for the very survival of our racing industry and we have one here only harping about 'betting' in horse racing as though horse racing is all about that. I guess it is difficult to change a punter's mindset for it all about only gambling for them. They cannot fathom horse racing which includes stud farms, suppliers of fodder, the thousands of jobs both in and as support of our sport.

The high GST will certainly deter the medium and small owners from making investments. They are the ones who actually make our industry run ( financially ). How can the sport thrive without them? 

Purchases are generally made as yearlings and the owners have take care till they are eligible to race i.e. when they attain 2yr of age. Imagine having to pay 28% GST at every step of the way right from the time of purchase, making entries and while collecting the prize money ( if fortunate ).It is mainly because of them that our sport continues to survive.

Punters come into the picture only when the horses are eligible to run and play a pivotal role thereafter.

Many lack the passion and vision to understand the ills that has stricken our sport and are only focused on the 'gambling' aspect.

All that one can say to these individuals is to change their mindset and to become aware of the real troubles that face our racing industry due to high taxation ( 28% GST ).

regds,
Cruise

My Goodness 28% tax, here people mostly the youth are without jobs as most IT companies hv closed,  the employees  are requested  to go on leave without pay or are payed half their salaries,  so the case of most BPO's , half of all central government and private undertakings are cut by 50% of their workforce , major companies closed , and the list goes on and as this is disrupting the economic of our country , with these difficulties the government is taxing higher GST in most entities , and admist all these problems do you expect the poor or the middle class punter racing fans to give out their hard earned money during this lock down , and do you think they are so knive to play online or at the course with all these difficulties, impossible, to me it's over , I feel unless there is total eradication of this virus and the uplifment of the economy and opening  up of jobs it's not possible , even the most  entertaining sport like cricket the BCCI is speculating to phospone all major cricket games till 2021, no point of pressing the government to bring downn the taxes , it's a waste of time , just have to wait and watch when the races start , I feel this year it's highly impossible, but you never know , expect the unexpected 

The last line of your post,SIR this industry has in fact COLLAPSED and there is absolutely no chance of revival

All punters desire that GST should be barest minimum.  The current slabs are 5%, 12%, 18% & 28%.  Every punter is aware that 28% is the highest slab.  And then there is club commission (4% or 5%),

It is almost impossible for any punter to bet on favorites.  If one desires to bet 3000, he has to cough up another 1000 by way of tax only.  Suppose he wins, at odds 75ps, he will get returns 5250/- , a profit of 1250.  On the other hand, if the horse does not win, the 4,000 is gone!

So, betting on favorites is not at all viable.  One need not be Ramanujan or Shakunthala to know that race betting is a sure road to profit for bookies & Government.

So, it is time the punters stop betting.  That is the only way the punters can protest and hope the Government takes pity on them and reduce the tax.

However, we should speak realistically. 

Race betting is a sin according to Government.  So also cigarette smoking, consumption of liquor among other things.  It is absolutely hopeless for any public to plead for reduction of tax rates on these items.  

In spite of such a high taxation, there is no scarcity of punters.  Granted, the current punter count may be just 50% of what it was during 1990s and 2000s.  The punters may be less in number.  But, the turnover at race course is several times hgher.  In 1990s, it may be a luxury to bet even 100/- or 200/-.  But, now 5500/- bets are dime a dozen.  

But, what is happening?  Every punter bets paying only 10% more.  Revenue to the Government is pittance despite the high gst. 

I can not understand why Cruise_B'lore is coming up with such ideas.  I presume that he is also a tote loyalist like me!  So, for those punters who deal with bookies the high GST is not at all a problem!  They will not care even if the Government increases the sin tax to 50%.   But, for tote punters it is back breaking.

What is the remedy?  Simple.  Do not bet!  Not one rupee will be charged against you. 

Or, if you must bet, then consider a very small investment on forecast/trinella.  I have no problem with the current rates of GST.  I bet only on forecast.  And my strike rate is less than 15%.  I may lose some amount.  O K.  Goli maro!  All punters are sailing in the same boat.  

If you want to bet, then bet without pointing fingers at the GST.  The GST council has fixed the rate only after hearing from the turf club management. .

Sun may rise in the West.  The Government will not reduce the GST on race betting.