Hello Kolramsri,

1947 Indian derby?
How do you expect me to answer any of that?

regds,
Cruise

Cruise My post regarding Indian Derby 1947 was directed towards to you.for the simple reason, my Friend Indian _Turf _ Record will be nice enough to answer, but will direct me to get it confirmed by you. So some relief to my friend Indian_ Turf _ Record.

Cruise. There are two different reports in respect of  1947 Indian Derby

Wiki says, On Eighth Feb 1947 (Derby Race), Her Majesty (W.T. Evans) had a dramatic fall after the start of the race, but both the rider and the Horse were brave enough to get back on their feet and ran the race only to finish Second to BUCEPHALUS by a Nose.

 Second one. BUSEPHALUS was ridden by T.BURN won the race.

The total number of runners 10.

Won by 2, 3 1/2  3 1/2

What is the winning margin in the above race.?,

@ CHANAKYA,

             Dear Sir,

              Congrats for attracting more than double centum view points for your topic under "Betting strategies" which is further heading towards triple century.

     Like me,  everyone shared their views. May be I am wrong in some of my view points which got irritated you for which I take an apology.

        But you must know that you won't have a great debate if everyone agrees too much for a particular point.. There may be dissents whose opinions may enliven the debate further.  In this HT,  everyone is an equal participant and we should respect every view point even if you disagree .  we must have intellectual humanity or willingness to respect other view points also. This is my humble request and don't be got irritated once again.  After all we are all esteemed friends in one aspect that is punters.

 @ EINSTIEN,

        Though you won't concur with me in my view points, yet you honoured me as a man of gentleman conduct for which I convey my sincere thanks.

     Cheers with Glenfiddich whisky.

Hello Glasgow Prince,

Recall the famous plot which took place in 1979 Invitation Cup in which Karl Umrigar was outwitted by the trio of Ramu's jockeys.

He rode Aristocrat in the 1980 Indian derby, in which, he was paid back in the same coin. He and Vasant Shinde, astride Everynsky, got outwitted by Wally Swinburn.

Therafter, he was seen mainly riding in southern India racing circuit for MAM and trainer Zareer Darashah.

regds,
Cruise 

ITR,

A small elaboration to my post about jockey Jagdish. He was not in the twilight of his career in those days. We in western India however lost the previledge of watching him ride sometime around the mid seventies as he shifted his base to Bangalore. He was astride Squanderer when that horse won the Indian Derby as well as the RWITC Invitational, so that would make it 1977. 

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

your 8/7  9.32am,

There  is  a difference  between  me and many  other posters on this  forum.Most  of  them  have  not  seen or  touched  a  pistol  or  a rifle. forget  about  looking  at  a  live missile being  fired.Most  of  them, perhaps  all  of them have  also  not  seen disfigured  and  dismembered  human  bodies in  their  life...

IN '65 and  '71 I've  seen  all  that. All these politicians and  others  who DESIST and RESIST  in  sending  their children to become  a 'fauji'  are  cowards and enabled  ad  allowed  this  country  to  be  ruled  by  invadores  for 600 to  700 years. No other  country  had/has  been enslaved  for  so  many  years - world  history  says  so...

A person  whose  contribution  is  'zero' to  the subject of  racing  can not  demand  but  should realise that he is  a position to  do  that.

Yes, we  should  decide  our  rules  of  engagement. you  have  asked  me  to  give details  of  my  'open'  races . I spent  time  and  posted  it .Any  sensible  man  asks  for  any  detail -I'll  give it. Demand  it -I'll not give  any  help....

However, In  my  Betting  strategy- part II I may  give abbreviated details...

ITR,

M K Jadhav. Good idea. Let me see what I can do with it.

Printed records do offer an advantage for posterity but that very fact has nudged you into erasing them from your memory. I think that act has deprived you of the intense joy of stretching one's memory and recollecting those glorious moments vividly, moments that do not come again and again. That is my personal feeling. No offense meant. At the same time, I am glad that we have someone like you with us who can correct or corroborate what we remember. It allows us to relive those moments in their entirety and with authenticity. 

I have quoted the Fairmont race in connection with Umeed Inse and not as related to the RK jackpot. I guess you have missed that sentence in my posting. 

I have very high regard for jockey Jagdish as I have for some other jockeys of that era. Highly capable did not imply less than legendary. When I started racing, Jagdish, Shammu Chavan and Pandu Khade were more or less in the twilight of their careers. Even then race goers like me could not help being impressed with their prowess. When it comes to power packed riding I think there are very few if any who can hold their own against Shammu Chavan. He was perhaps the only rider that I remember having watched who appeared stronger than the horse he was riding and gave an impression of literally dragging the horse across the finish line. Jagdish never made you feel that he was punishing the horse but  nursed his mounts with dexterity and managed to tame some of the harder riders like Eric Eldin.  However, the rider I was most impressed with was undoubtedly Pandu Khade. There was nobody to beat him for sheer wizardry. I was fortunate to watch him win the Indian Derby on Mansoor. The way he outwitted Shammu Chavan on Bade Miya was simply magical. 

Raghu- I have given you each and every answer -this is probably the fifth time you are sayimg  'in the end you lost a lot of cash'  fifth time i'll tell You lost a lot of cash it was from my winnings - when I win I invest keep some cash for settlement - so last big cash component I lost - but investments are still with me - you keep saying the same thing delibrately -  crazy

C- after typing I don't read the post before sending it- plus its dim light at night watching TV - so I miss a alphabet or word hee n there - that's ok with me -no drinks now- totally into fitness .

If racing starts will post my selection once a week -mumbai only -class is permanant.

Cruise - I talk logically  - you said crass should have been better 'mannered'  you should know me by now will repomd in kind- but honestly I never feel any malice towards you - nice guy. guess you are 55 now.

Mumbai R.....

For you  https://youtu.be/2Q_ZzBGPdqE

SK.VK- same guy who was desperate to meet and learn racing from me -said so number of times till I got annoyed and had to tell him NO -  look man I can smell a RAT from miles away - if you say you cannot get along with your father -  too scared to tip here scared to fail ,no confidence  - talk rubbish on racing matters - its understood where you are going to end up.

'The world makes way for people who know where they are going' and also 'closes the door for confused people'. fact of life.

Hello ITR,

Much thanks for your confirmation.

regds,
Cruise

 

Hi Buddy,

A friendly advice: Desist grom voicing your thoughts when you have had one too many.

Also, I have not made any remarks regarding your racing and I expect you to extend the same courtesy.

Remember the good old saying we were taught as kids - 'Manners maketh a man'.

regds,
Cruise 

Here comes SK.VK- with his foul mouth - he himself has said 'his father does not like him ' seems more frustated then before- who would want a son like him- only gambling ...and losing.

@ Glasgow Prince

      A thought occured to me.

      LOVELY LADY, who won the first leg of the Big Jackpot on 19 Dec 1971, was trained by M.K. Jadhav. I am sure that M.K. Jadhav is more likely to know who won that Big Jackpot than all of us looking for the elusive black cat in a dark room. Jadhav still holds a trainer's license and his stables are in Wanowrie. He is a friendly, very approachable person and I am sure he can enlighten you.

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

winning  big  money  with  small  investment  is  only  possible at  tote, depending  on  punter's expertise and  not on  his decades of  experience and  knowledge. I'll give  my  own  experience( system  is  behaving  erratically).

While  tote  will  never or  rarely  if  ever, pay more  than  a  bookie on  a  favorite, even  on  2nd.  or  3rd. favorite it  almost  ALWAYS PAYS  MORE  THAN  A  BOOKIE ON  A  FLUKE. 

Bookies  normally  offer  10/1  to  20/1  on  outsiders. Tote  has  no  such  restriction. I'l  explain from  my  own  experience.

D Netto had  just  become  a  trainer  from  a  jockey at  Hyderabad. Maybe  his  first  year  or  second  year  as  a  trainer. At mumbai there  was IV betting  for H'bad with  Mumbai  as  main .I was  using  speed  rating  those  days  and   found  that in  a  race  Netto  had  2  runners - one  was  on money  favorite  and  other  was 20/1 but bothe  were giving  same  speed  value  - rather  the  outsider was  giving  slightly  better value. I placed Rs.  50  on  win & place  each on  the  outsider  of  Netto at tote to safeguard  my  bet with  the  bookie on  the  favorite. The  fluke won  start  to  finish and  paid more  than  Rs. 6000 for win&lace.I've  to  pay  tax  for win  above  Rs. 5000...

I do  bet on  tote  but  only  wheb the  return  is  more  than 10/1 or  more and  also  in tens  or  hundreds and  not  more  than  that...

Cruise_B'lore,

Your  advice is correct. No  need  to  argue with  someone  who  is  beyond  redemption. I've already  stopped  responding regularly to  few, even  I've removed  many  from the  response  circuit- to  me  they  don't  exist: they  are  nonexistent. Manish,Munesh etc.had  no  relevance and  will  have  no in  future.

coming  back to  subject.

It  is  true and accepted by  all that  Jackpot(JP) was  a  craze with Bombay(now  Mumbai) punters in 70's & 80's. Other  centers  I've  no idea. I also used to  use  a  major  part  of  my  cash betting  for  JP and  rest  for  win or  place- perhaps  in  ratio of  70/30. I have  won  about  100  to  150 JP's but  must  have lost 500  to  600 during  those 20 or  22 years. Gradually  I realised that  I'm at  a loss though  small  and slowly  I  shifted  to win &place  regimen.

Now  I'm  doing  fine with  only  win betting  and  discarding  all these exotic alternatives  which deduct  30  to  55% before  paying  a punter a  pittance from  the  tote...

Nowadays  I do  bet  occasionally  on  JP but  only  when  there  is  a  carried  forward  amount and  restrict  my  bet  to  few hundred  to  few  thousands...

.

Einstein,

The smooth flow of exchanges should not meet any kind of speed breakers.  Even I also endorse that view.

However, you should voice your objection in the right thread.  This topic has generated more than 200 replies.  Yet you feel that smooth flow of views is blocked.  I do not want to sound combatant.  But, I feel that you could have chosen a different thread to voice your opinion.

If you have time/patience, go through the various threads in this site and find out whether any topic has got so many replies.

SSPP, Vijaykumar, some others worthies and myself are pulling up those who brag they have won big amount in this horse betting.  You are also welcome to join our team.  Alternately you are free to join the team of the so called winners.  Absolutely no problem.  But, as far as possible, avoid being childish in what you tweet!

Cruise_B'lore,

your 6/7/20 9.27pm,

Yes, I think RK's  JP matter  is settled.

@ adjucatewar,

your  query  is  incomplete, without  the name of  center you  want  to claim  high  payment. In Mumbai I've  seen  many  bookmakers  making  payments in  bundles  of  Rs.2000 notes...

@vijaykumar,

you  are  wrong. Entirely..Buddy might  have  used harsh  words but it  was  on  instigation. Repeatedly making  baseless accusaions or  rmarks do  irritate sometimes.Threshold  of  decency  and  tolerance  varies  from  person  to  person...

@ Glasgow Prince

     People like you and Cruise_B'lore have excellent memories. However, when talking about events that took place many, many years ago, the memory wires tend to get crossed. I have records for 50 years and what is in those records, I have erased from my memory since I can always refer to the printed word. I know it is an unfair advantage but I use it to help those who want to get their wires unravelled. Cruise reached his Rubik nirvana via Mucho, Macho, Dazzler etc. and if I helped him to do so, I am happy.

     Before coming to your latest, do allow me to back track a little. You had earlier mentioned that Sobranie( or Sobriety) and Lerwah were part of your memory. Though I have do not have Fonn's for the 1960s, I have stud books. From their perusal, I can say that no horse called Sobriety or Lerwah was born in India between 1960 and 1969 nor was it imported. My personal feeling is that you are mixing Le Roi (French pronunciation is somewhat like 'Lerwah') with Lerwah.

     I am also aware that records themselves are not perfect. Afterall, they are compiled by human beings. Change of names are not always recorded in earlier volumes of Stud Books. My Fonn's has Saddle Up as the winner of 1999 Indian Derby but we all know the subsequent events which awarded the race to Supervite  

     Coming to your latest. Most of the details mentioned by you are correct. However, do remember that the Big Jackpot we are talking about was of 19 December 1971. Some observations:-

      1. You have termed Jagdish as "highly capable"; in my books, he was "legendary". You are entitled to your opinion.

       2. The Fairmont episode you have narrated is mostly correct; except that Umeed Inse was ridden by McGrath and not Yusuf Khan. That race was run on 26 January 1972 -- after the Big Jackpot -- and has no direct connection with the Jackpot.

       Umeed Inse triggers a lot of memories -- none from my records -- but I am afraid that post is already too long.

C- you remind me of Dev Anand he used to do stupid things on screen [just like your tipping] and still people loved him- I too like you that will remain - both my opinion on your racing ideas and like for you is consistent not going anywhere.

Cruise- your latest gem- 'yes you can win on the tote provided you know your racing well'  One you can never win on tote ,everybody knows that - two you have no clue on how to zoom in on the winning horse - your selections run down the field - but I guess you bet small on tote and have sme income coming to fund your passion-  you get only truth from me - Np hard feelings you asked for it - no malice towards - you are likeable.

Chanakya,

Your 06.07.2020 06.56 pm.

I fully agree that posts that are personal and patronizing are irritating but replying them in the same tone often leads to a brick wall that makes it self defeating for the intended purpose. The other person also thinks the same way and it becomes an unending and painlful exchange not only for the two persons involved but also for the forum at large. Take this particular case. This war has been going on for perhaps two years but has anything changed or has anything been achieved? It's a bottomless pit. Somebody has to rise above and move on. We have the liberty to decide our 'rules of engagement'. 

As far as providing proof is concerned, it stands to reason that whoever wishes to prove something carries the onus of providing the proof. It follows that it is in the interest of the claimant to provide it. We can direct our proof towards the audience at large in our own interest. In fact what appears to be a 'demand' is in fact an 'opportunity'. We have the supreme choice to address everybody but the heckler.

Sometimes it becomes difficult to fathom whether this portal is intended for promoting horse racing or demoting it.

Cruise - crass?  its about perception - you spent your life in racing from school but your views on racing matters is crass and I mean it ,you have no clue - I expect a science student spending years in a field to at-least improve little over the years.  In the same breath you are castigating BOTH of us - who do you think you are.

ITR,

Here are my further recollections about this race. Victorious was ridden by the unassuming but highly capable Jagdish. Billionnaire was steered by the irrepressible lighweight Yusuf Khan. Victorious was an Oaks winner. Dick Mink was most probably trained by the legend S M Shah.

I will stick my neck out and stretch my memory further to quote another race of those times since it is related Ummeed Inse. Ummeed Inse was toted as a classic prospect as a three year old. Consequently, he was the odds on favourite when he was entered for a 2400 (or 2000?) meters race. The field consisted of only five runners and Ummeed Inse was probably entrusted to Yusuf Khan. The most neglected runner in the race was Fairmont (who was the top weight?). Vikram (or Bhagat?) took Fairmont to the front as they broke off from the gates and led a merry dance all through to emerge an upset winner. The win dividend on Fairmont paid more than Rs 100/- for a fiver. 

The bracketed information with question marks indicate doubtful recollections. You are most welcome to correct / corroborate.

Some more bits to help strain the reported information about RK's jackpot to follow. 

@Vijayakumar

Though I don't subscribe to your views on the going-ons between Buddy and Raghavan, as also the views of your esteemed friend SSPP, I do like your gentlemanly conduct. In view of that, I shall not retort but would like to voice the opinion that the conduct of a few in here leave much to be desired.
Disrupting the flow of narration without any positive inputs acts as a hinderance. I am sure you will agree to that.
I rest my case with that.

Mumbai Retiree and Class, High hopes, He's a Foul mouthed Sloth,who Refuses to Stay put in Retirement Just Bragging his Long forgotten High-stakes Rollercoaster life Garbling out Rubbish and Nothing Useful For anyone including Himself

Hello Buddy,

You claim to be of south Mumbai origin. Expected some class from you but what I get to see is all crass. Desist from arguing from the unyielding one. He is beyond redemption. 

regds,
Cruise

@EINSTEIN,

Dear sir,

         In a battle of wits, its common where two people or two groups use their intelligence and ability to think quickly to try to defeat each other.  It should not be construed as a disruption for smooth flow of exchanges.  Many heads, many minds. Everyone has different point of views in a topic and also have the liberty to express them subject to the conditions stipulated. We should try to understand one's real feelings or intentions from what they say or write.

         THE MORE THE INPUT, THE BETTER THE CONVERSATION..

          Let every one contribute freely so that the ongoing debate would crosse the double century mark and create a history in the HT for the first time.

Guys help me with the bookies who can pay huge amounts?

Buddy,

"No sensible punter will try those pools".  O K.  You do not play at tote. 

So do not worry about what pools I bet and what pools I do not bet.  

I also feel that no sensible punter will bet in the range of 10k, 20k, 70k, petis and more.  

All race punters are sailing in the same boat.  Many will surrender their cash to bookies; and the rest will surrender their cash to the totes.  So, do not try to place those punters who bet with bookies on a high pedestal.  You have confessed that you lost a sizeable cash and in bargain got mental peace and happiness.  Well.  I do not want that mental happiness.  I can not afford such a high price for mental happiness.  

So carry on your business with bookies and buy all the mental happiness that the bookies will grant you.  Bookies are generous in this aspect.  They bring in truck loads of mental happiness and exchange the same for truck loads of cash. Good and sensible bargain from you in this regard.  My best wishes.

@Buddy

The exchanges between you two are jarring and rather disruptive. My humble request to stop it. Trust you will do so in the interest of the tantalising details of racing being echanged. Newcomers like us find that interesting as the corpnavirus has rendered us 'free'. It feels good to know about the history of horse racing.

SHP-THP -TRI - tote man those are very low level gambling in acing - ask ak any moderate level player - no sensible punter venture there -only the very desperate looking for big money with small bet that is where the tote makes good money from the poor punters-  worst kind of gambling all in totes favor-average punters don't even think or know about those trash bets.

@ Cruise_B'lore

     Details of Lovely Lady, Victorious, Billionnair and Umeed Inse as given are correct as per the record book.

Einstein,

"spoiling the smooth flow of exchanges".

The reply count is reaching 200.  All and sundry have contributed.  Still if you feel that the smooth flow of exchanges has been spoiled/disrupted! 

O K.  Interfere in future also when such smooth flow of exchanges are threatened because of one or two members.

In any case, 95% of my posts are only by way of reply to X, Y or Z. 

Some queries that are addressed to me are reasonable.  Some display the arrogance of that member.  And some are rank stupid.  I am only answering those questions.  Of course you are right in addressing that question to Buddy.  It is only members like Buddy, Chanakya who puts some question and get the reply those posts deserve.

Hello ITR, Chanakya and Glasgow Prince,

Before I proceed I would like to inform the details being given ahead are sourced from an elderly gentleman, running close to 80. He has been associated with racing since 1965, His memory is still sharp as ever and was able to recall certain details of the said J/p because he had failed it in one of the initial leg.

He recalls the following:

1- Lovely Lady as being owned by cine actor Mehmood.
2- Victorious being owned by the Dagas ( He racalls of Shivlal Daga )
3- Billionnaire as trained by Dady Adenwala
4- Ummed Inse as owned by M.D. Mehta, trained by S.M.Shah

He is unable to gather from memory the details of Dick Mink.
I would request ITR to check on that if the above is true or not ( details regarding the horses given ).

He has confirmed the said J/p stated by ITR to be right one.

Would continue further once confirmation comes in from ITR.

regds,
Cruise

Many registered card club says the card man- whom are you fooling - those registered club are not for gambling -license is given for entertainment -but then used for gambling - over the last dacade or more cops have gone after them arrests made , clubs closed .....stop pretending all card gamblers know it all - so stop ....lying.

Buddy,

"card games were never legal with cash betting".  At Bangalore city institute, there was rummy game.  Of various stakes.  Rs. 16 book to Rs. 8000 book.  If you do not know about them, better remain silent.  Do not display your ignorance.  And stakes are in Cash only.  

"Card games are illegal.  All gamblers know that.  An open secret".  Applicable to the clubs that you might have visited.

There are many clubs where cards game is legal.  Of course there are many clubs where such card games are illegal.  Perhaps you are aware of only illegal clubs.

*****

Next, you only said that you have account/credit line with many bookies who were allowing carry forward of liabilities upto one lakh.  At least you owed them that much may be for a limited period.   Totes will not give one paisa credit.

"It is a do or die situation in gambling world"!  I am happy that I never slipped into that kind of  critical situation.  I was betting to the extent purse permitted me.  

You talk of lay betting as an additional attraction.  You know only about win, place or eat.   Really you are fish in small pond.  There are rivers, seas, oceans.

There are many pools in tote.   If there is lay betting with bookies, at tote there are. SHP, THP, Trinella, forecast, exacta etc.  It is not only the bookies pay out high amount.  There are massive payments at totes too.  At a relatively small investment.  ITR spoke of huge huge jackpot of 48+ lakhs.  The amount that was sufficient to buy 243 kgs of gold during December 1971.  

Do not praise bookies sky high.  At Bangalore they are trapped by Commercial Tax officers and were not to be seen for the three months.

Einstein -  can you imagine a gambler ,race /card etc giving moral advice on paying full tax while gambling- when a accepted option is in place - if it was not a known and accepted option why in the history of horse racing a single punter betting at half tax with bookies not arrested -  He is just trying to present himself as a holier than thou person -  even 10000 like him screaming will not change anything -  Tote player preaching how to bet ...crazy.

But I am okay tackling him -my track is solid -all who can afford bet at half tax..

@CK

A Fool and His Money are soon parted is most apt to describe his act.

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

Your 4/7/20   10.13pm,

Yes, jackpot(JP) will  not  be  same as it  was during  RK's  time because  now the  clubs  use  it  as  a  milch cow deducting  45% or  more from  the gross  collection  and  then  deducting  30% tax  on  winnings  of  over  Rs. 10,000. Sometime  back when RWITC  added  a  C/F amount  of  Rs. 50 lakhs it  swelled  to  2.3 crore but  the payout was not  worh mentioning...

I agree that playing  every  race may work  out beneficial  to  me  and  will  not  be  so  for  another punter, but  it  id  doing  well  for  me - details given  elsewhere  in the  thread  is  a  proof. I too  leave 1 or 2 races  where I'm not  sure, like  the  3rd.  race  of  2/1/20. I do  'pass' the  posts  which are useless or 'logicless' but  some  become  more  personal andd must  be  replied  in  the  'tone' the  writer understands. Providing proof is  OK but the  audience  must  ask, request for  it. It  should  not  'demand' and use  stupid  ways  to  demand  it.  By  the  way  the  proof  is available  in  the  forum  itself because all  my claims  are  based  on  the  selections  posted  on this  forum and  can  be  accessed by  anyone to  prove  me  wrong  or  right...

Cruise_B'lore,

Jackpot  was  a  craze  in  70's, no  doubt. Even  today  one  of  my  friend plays  only jackpot and leaves the course  the  moment  it is washed  out - in 3rd. or 4th.leg...

Winning 2  lakhs  in  a  day  and losing  it  next  day  does not  make  a punter smart ; it  makes  him  poor...

HP

BTW How is yr Red Maruti 800?' 

NOSTALGIC

@Buddy

This disruptor is back spoiling the smooth flow of exchanges. Why are you giving grounds to him? He does the same in almost every topic, repeating the same old talk over and over again.

Card games were never legal with cash betting - only cashless- its an open lie what you say- all card gamblers know that -not a secret .

As for your other accusation 'you probably owe bookies money that is why you are promoting them'  another silly arguement from you -  even if I owe -no one writes of the money by sweet talks ,you should know that - I care a hang about bookies -  gambling world 'its a do or die situation' so only odds matter if tote was better i would advocate tote - nothing against tote or tote players - its only odds that matter , plus flexbility for lay bets and settlements- also big volume cannot be done on tote.

@ Vijayakumar

     Thank you so much for the compliments. Many of my friends challenged me, some of them even placed a 10/1 bet, when I said I have quit. It's true that initially it was a bit 'suffocating', particularly on Sundays, but soon I managed to live without it. As a result, I am well off today. My wife, a govt school teacher in Kerala, got a promotion as HM but posted in Kollam dist since June 1. Children are excellent in studies and I am saving a lot of money to enable them select the course they want. 

     One point I wish to place here is earlier I used to get agitated whenever someone tries to throw brickbats at me but later I thought of it, seriously. I decided I should ignore them because they have very little sense and why should I upset the Admin of this beautiful website by engaging in a war of words?

     As I always used to say, my preachings are only for those who are already in knee-deep troubles. Please don't allow that to raise to neck-deep and get perished. If I can rebuild myself so quickly and again start to lead a life of dignity, why not others who prefer such a return to normal life?

     Let those who claim to be making money continue to do so and my best wishes to them too. Inside their heart, they must be feeling guilty. I know that, as much as you do. Thank you so much. 

Buddy,

Regarding cards games;  There are many registered clubs in Bangalore.  (And  almost all other cities of the country too).   Perhaps you do not know about them.  Winners are taxed there too.  Of course you may only be knowing about such joints where police raids are frequent.  A fish in river does not know that there exists sea, ocean etc.

Regarding my admitting that there many be some winners:  The turf clubs are paying big big jackpot, exacta amounts.  Payments to the tune of 40 lakhs/50 lakhs or above may just 4/5 times in a century.  But 5 lakhs/10 lakhs etc are too frequent.   In exacta also, where you have to nominate top 4 finishers in right order, there are payments well above 2 lakhs, 3 lakhs etc.  And the punters who cashed such amount were in my mind when I said there may be some winners.  

As to the bets with the bookies.   Horses that flopped at odds of 50ps, 60ps, 70ps are too many.   I do not touch such horses with barge pole.  But, you seem to think otherwise.  No wonder, you lost your cash balance in toto.  Anyway, in bargain you got lot of mental happiness & peace.  

Racing is a game of skill.  Told so by Supreme Court also.  But it is also gambling.  So, luck also matters. 

You are fiercely defending  bookies.   Perhaps you  owe them big and as such do not have any other option.   But, I  know that bookies cheated the punters, club, Government.  If you are are disturbed by my tweets on bookies, you chant Bhagavat Geetha.

P S (1): I have asked you what you make out of three different amounts of profits claimed by Chanakya during 29/12/19 to 12/3/20.  And there is deafening silence from you.  

P S (2): I never thought that you will make an issue of my playing cards.  A clear indication that you have completely lost on all other arguments.  Cards games are perfectly legal in registered clubs.

       Generally ,an Intelligent who is able to think and understand quickly in difficult situation is termed as a smart person. According to this theory,  Shri SSPPji is smart enough since he has realised the ground reality on time and gave up racing six years back.  Now he is leading a contended life with his family and also acquiring immovable properties for his children's future through his hard earned money.

    Whereas we punters keep on wagering regardless of the consequences even if we know that the odds are against us and can't afford to lose. We find it very difficult to overcome this racing habit and majority of us (baring few experts) accumulating debts rather than assets.

       Hope I presented my point in the right perception.

        Good day to all.

{ what does ++ stand for}
GPrince  Its stands fr I am double positive in what I say
BTW How is yr Red Maruti 800

Oh, my! The 'Hunter' and the 'Hound' copy-paste from the same article. Great teamwork!

Raghu the tote- SSPP says he lost all lose as you say ,same song - which I believe is true because the percentage is in favor - you used to say no one has ever won expect Rk now your song is 'there are few lucky ones' - mr tote luck is not important in the long run- [short run yes] you have no understanding of luck -luck has a short life -luck cannot sustain - only skill ,planning, right circle matters.

Hello ITR,

My memory served me as there being more than one Virwani as owners. The trainer being Raghunath. Like I have said, it is all faint recollections.

Yes, Natural Craze is the dam of The Pelican. Would do good to do a check-up of a horse's profile instead of relying on my memory which seems to be slipping if late.

regds,
Cruise

Raghu- Its obvious you read everything written about you - card gambling no tax paid by anyone to the govt - you indulged =on what basis are you questioning punters who play at 10% - you have spent your entire life on tote 40yr[ your claim ] readers can understand your mindset knowledge of racing matters - look most here are small frys -not seen or been around the winners big bettors - you can say I am bluffing and its perfect - but 40yrs on tote.......... wow -its an achievement .

raghu- you have taken bluff master to task - you a river fish how will you know what happens in the ocean-  answer the question of being a hypocrite - doing card gambling where no one pays tax -not even the owner - plus police even takes the punter in lock-up sometimes - how many times have you been locked -up.  Look there is nobody here you can take me to task on racing matters - done bussiness with best - Trainer /jockey / bookie.-how can guy like you take me to task .

@Foolish-But-Still-Around-Punter

First learn money management before preaching. That will do you a world of good.

@ Cruise_B'lore

        Trust I have some credit with you to point out acouple of small inaccuracies.

         Industrialist Mr. N Virwani's first winner Natural Power in 1976 was trained by N.V. Patange. His main trainer therafter was K. Raghunath though some of his winner were also trained by Himmat Singh, Altaf Hussain and B. Puttana (in south). I could not locate a winner trained by Nana Raghunath for Mr. N. Virwani.

           Natural Craze won her first race in ownership of Mr. N. Virwani but her next was in ownership of "Mr. Deepak N. and Anil N. Virwani representing the Estate of the Late Mr. N. Virwani." Natural Craze is the DAM  of The Pelican; not the grandam.

@ Vijayakumar -  You must have gone through a scientist's remark here in response to my accepting a total loss on Day 2 of the profit made by me on Day1. More than being smart, I wanted to be honest and that's why I showed the guts to accept my loss, isn't it? Otherwise how others are going to know about that loss? I could have also joined the mysterious group of 'always winners' by claiming that I made twenty lakh rupees the next day,I isn't it? I am just trying to state the facts of racing life. Even if I had not lost the entire profit on the next day, I am sure that it would have not taken a few more days. Then, I would have lost more of my fresh investments too. So weren't I smart in realising the ground reality and giving up racing then and there itself? Some people keep pretending all through their lives that they don't lose in racing at all but I don't complain against them. Thank you

Indian Turf Record,

Thanks.  

The Gold price during 1971 was 193 per 10 gms and during 1972 it  was 202 per 10 gms.

Let us say, the cost of gold during Dec 1971 is Rs. 200/- per 10 gms.  48,73,000/- means  lakh means 243 kgs of gold.  And the cost of 243 kgs of gold today is well over 110 crores.  

I thought all the five legs, (at least 4 legs) are won by rank flukes (20/1) and that resulted in such a massive payout.  But, the odds of  5 horses were 8/1,  10/1,  18/1,  evens,  & 1.50/1.  The winner is really lucky.  Purely going by odds, there should have been at least three winning jackpot tickets.

And another thing.  I think, the Inter venue betting started later than 1972 and the concept of  Combined jackpot pool was much much later.  So, the huge jackpot payout is the collection of just one center!  Nowadays, even with 6+ centers combining, the jackpot pool hardly crosses 15 lakhs. And of course, there is 30% TDS.  

SSPP,

You have stopped betting six years ago.  That is remarkable.

"Yeh sharab and juye ki aadat kisine chod diya aaj tak".    Mousee asks Amitabh bachchan in Sholay!

Einstein, 

SSPP may be or may not be smart when he loses 2 lakhs in a day.  But, he is 100 times smarter than the present day horse race bettors.  He has stopped betting 6 years ago; the one thing 99% punters consider impossible.  

Vijayakumar,

Thanks for remembering SSPP in your post.  In his reply he has spoken the universal truth.  As per him, it is an ultra bogus claim if anyone boast that he has won by betting on horses.  

O K.  I know that the punters who brag that they are winners are actually cheating themselves.  And, there are some people who indulge in rank buffoonery when they pretend that they believe such brag masters.

Whether there is not even a single winner?  There may be a small number of smart and lucky punters who might have won.  But, those who claim every fortnight that they are winners are actually bigger losers than myself.

I have taken to task such bluff masters.  And they are in red hot rage.

Glasgow prince;

Rajinder Krishna is in heaven.  The other lucky punter also might have joined him in heaven.  (the matter is more than 48 years old).  It is very difficult, almost impossible to locate the winners of massive jackpot during 1970, 71, 72 etc.  

Hello ITR, Chanakya and GP,

The taxation on racing ( for winning ) came about because of RK's huge J/p dividend but the reason for that is not what has been stated by a few in here.

We have to bring in the 1971 war which saw the formation of Bangladesh. This war ended on 16th of Dec'71.
RK passed the said J/p on 19th of dec of the same year.
Post the war, RK went personally to Delhi to contribute to PM's relief fund. Smt. Indira Gandhi was then the PM of our country. The big amount donated, now, here there is a dispute with regards to the figure. Some say it was Rs 2 lakhs and others quote a higher figure of 5 lakhs.
Be that as it may be, whether 2 lakhs or 5 lakhs, the point to note was that it raised many eyebrows as the mentioned figures were considered very high for a normal person to contribute.
It was this act of his that attracted the atttention of the IT dept and the rest is known to all - race winnings started getting taxed.

The above gleaned from very reliable sources.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Chanakya,

You are absolutely right. Jackpot had become a craze during the period mentioned by you ( 1972-73 ) because of RK's massive J/p win.

What ITR has stated is factually the correct one. Proof of that will follow soon.

regds,
Cruise

Hello folks,

Sardar Chandulal Shah, a wealthy film financier who founded Ranjit Studios, was among the earliest lovers of horses and racing from the film world. He owned a horse named Balam, who won the seventh edition of the Indian Derby in 1949.

Balam was trained by ALJ Talib and ridden by Kheem Singh. Incidentally, the first six editions of the Derby were all won by English riders, so in a way, Kheem Singh opened the Derby account for Indian jockeys. Actor Motilal, who worked in many films produced by Chandulal Shah, was also a racing buff, and an apocryphal story credits the financier to have settled Motilal's betting account with a bookmaker by paying Rs 75,000 in cash on the sets of his film when he sensed the actor was under some stress in front of the camera and inquired about the reason.

Tragically, Shah suffered huge losses due to the box office disaster of Paapi (starring Raj Kapoor & Nargis, 1953), and took to gambling in a big way. Soon the man, who once owned a fleet of swanky cars, was reduced to traveling in buses, and finally, died penniless in 1975.

Showman Raj Kapoor was also a great horse racing fan, and rarely missed the Indian Derby. Comedian Mehmood, who owned many horses both in Mumbai and Bangalore had his own private box in the members' stand at the Mahalaxmi Racecourse from where he would watch the Indian Derby with family and friends.

The late Feroz Khan was another regular at the races and owned a number of horses, some of which raced in the India Derby, but never won it. However, his younger brother Sanjay Khan, whose daughter Suzanne was married to actor Hrithik Roshan, became the first film star to lead in an Rashid Byramji-trained and W Swinburn-ridden Prince Khartoum won the Indian Derby i n 1972 Indian Derby by a hair's breadth.

Industrialist Anil Virwani, who once owned many horses, married actress Rati Agnihotri, and made her lead in a winner owned by him when she was only days away from delivering their first child. The horse trained by Himmat Singh, was aptly named 'First Born'.

Sorced from: Mid-day
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/articles/horses-indian-derby--bollywoods-racing-connection/15947196

regds,
Cruise

Hello ITR,

Once again, thanks for the prompt update on Rubik. Now I can concentrate on other aspects of this topic.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Kolramsri,

Sorry for responding late. Just that I was held up trying to unravel the horse of trainer Padmanabhan that paid Rs1400/- at the tote.

With regard to Virwanis ( there was more than one - perhaps brothers ), I do recall many of their runners sometime during the 80s of previous millenium. If my memory serves me right, then, I think, they did have their wards under the care of trainer N.Raghunath.

I do recall one of their good horse, possibly the best, NATURAL CRAZE. She happens to be the grand-dam of THE PELICAN.

I do have faint remembrance of few others but they aren't solid enough to put them into print.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Glasgow Prince,

ITR is perfectly right. The stated 1971 jackpot was the one that was solved by Rajendra Krishan.

regds,
Cruise



 

Chanakya,

Your 03-07-2020 03:57 pm

True. RK's jackpot is unlikely to be surpassed. There are several reasons for this I think.  The change in rules brought about by the club with regard to carried over jackpots, introduction of consolation jackpots, the waning interest of the putners because of heavy taxation and the resultant drop in collections have all contributed to lower dividents and the charm of the jackpot has been effectively killed. RK did not have to pay tax on it because race winnings were not taxable at that time.

As far as bad blood is concerned, I think the strategy of playing all the races which works well for you in racing will not work here on HT. Here it is better to attempt only those races  which are in harmony with your system (engage with such people who are at least in your spectrum if not your wavelength). In other cases, you can excercise your option to leave the race. (You have the option to 'pass' posts which get personal or are patronizing.) Providing proof to the audience at large will only prove your point and in fact it is an opportunity to silence the critics.  

ITR,

A majority of the reports that I read talked of Rs 46 lakhs. I am pretty much convinced that he RK did not win the 19.12.71 jackpot. As I had mentioned earlier, it could be Sobranie or Sobriety and as such Sobranie can't be an integral part. It may be neither of the two but I am reasonably sure of Lerwa and Taras Bulba. If I remember correctly, one of the races was won by V Mitke. I wish Major Nargolkar was reading this. I think he may have been able to shed more light and even give the names of the winners of the five legs. 

@ Raghavan

         I am aware that there are various contradictory reports regarding Rajendra Krishan's Jackpot. 

          What I definitely know from published records is that the Jackpot on 19 Dec 1971 paid Rs. 48,73,533 (no consolation jackpot) on a single ticket. It was the biggest amount paid in Western India untill then. I also know that that the Jackpot on 2 Feb 2003 paid Rs. 64,08,171 (Consolation 1 paid Rs. 4,3439 on 42 tickets and Consolation 2 paid Rs. 9,15,453). I believe that these are the two biggest Jackpot dividends. I say 'believe' because though I have all the records since 1971-72 (except 1983-84 Vol. II), I have not made a list of every Jackpot dividend.

         Coming to Jackpot of 19 Dec 1971. You are right that the Tote dividend declared was on Rs. 5. The details you wanted:-

          Lovely Lady (8/1) Paid Rs. 43.50 on Tote

          Victorious (10/1) Paid Rs. 48

          Billionnaire (18/1) Paid Rs. 103

          Umeed Inse (Even Money favourite) Paid Rs. 11.50

          Dick Mink (6/4 favourite) Paid Rs. 19

           I always respond to any requests for information if I have it and if I see the request. Because of the lockdown and having fully isolated myself, these days I have time to see most postings. In normal times, it may not be so.  

@Vijayakumar

Any person who makes 2 lakhs only to lose it in the very next day cannot be deemed as smart. Be sure to use the right words.

@ SSPP,

Really I'm astonished with your flawless writing skill. With a good command of the language , you have communicated the message with clarity.  As these skills don't come overnight, I wonder how smart and hard you might have worked to acquire them. You seem to be a gifted writer.

You get a lot of attention and credit in this HT and always steal the show with your excellant write-ups.

Hats off SSPP Sir.

SSPP  -   since percentage wise there are more losers your point of view is correct - but there are winners BIG winners they have a different kind of exposure/experience from other punters -just as tote players are different from bookie player -

@ Cruise_B'lore

           5 Jun 2005

            Badami Cup. Won by RUBIK (gr g 2000 Placerville - I'm A Nine Plus), ridden by R. Biramne, trained by S. Padmanabhan and owned by Capt Jamshed Appoo. Tote Dividend -  Rs. 1417 (win) and Rs. 93 (place).

Indian Turf Record,

I request you one thing.  Of course, whether to answer that or not is entirely your decision.

You said 48 lakhs+ was paid as jackpot on a single ticket during dec 1971.  You seem to believe that this is the amount won by Rajinder Krishna,  However, wikipedia mentions that Rajinder Krishna won 46 lakhs.  Of course I am not very much interested to know whether it was Rajinder Krishna who won 48 lakhs or Rajinder krishna won only 46 lakhs only some other time.

What I want to know is the Win/place dividends paid on the 5 horses that constituted the Jackpot legs on Dec. 1971.  I think tote ticket for win/place those days at Mumbai was Rs. 5/- only.  

Cheers.  

GLASGOW PRINCE,

Your  3/7/20  10.26pm

RK has  won this  bumper  jackpot  between 1965 to  1971 - most  probably  between 1968 to  '71.. He  did  not win it after '71. I became  interested in racing when posted to  Bombay in  '73 and  I had  old records from 70 onwards and  as  far  as  I  recall I've  not  seen this high  value jackpot  dividend . I could  be  wrong  because in  early 90's when I  moved  out  from  Govt.  accomation to  a  2BHK  cubicles  of  Bombay I  was  forced  to  dispose  off  lot  of  my  collections  and  it  included  100 kgs.  of  raceboks and  result  books...

But one  thing  I'm  sure. In  1972/73   when I became  regular at  RWITC , jackpot  was  a  rage, perhaps  because  of  RK's  win. I also  use  to  divide  my  betting  money into  2  parts - 70% for  jackpot  and  30%  for wins which  continued  for  several  yearsand  in  80's  I  reversed the  order. From 90's  onward i rejected jackpot  and only  occasioally invested 20  to  30 % on  it and  concentrated only  on  win and  started  improving  my ROI which  became  even  in  mid  90's  and PLUS  in  late  90's.I might  have  lost  about  10lakhs and  won  8 to  8 1/2 lakhs during  these 30  years. Although I've  recovered 30  to  40 times of my  earlir  loss  but  it  is  in  notional  terms  and  in  real  terms  it  may  be  only  30  to  40%  at  today's  prices. I've  yet  to  recover a  major  part which  I'll  do  in  next  2  to  3  years...

There  are  many  who  live  in  dreamworld , i don't. I follow and  analyse  facts and  has  no  qualms  in  accepting my  failures or  mistakes...   

Hello ITR,

I really do appreciate updating and informing on the said request. Thanks a lot.

Now the question arises as to how the figure of Rs1400/- still arises with regard to a payout by a Padmanabhan-trained horse. Perhaps that could be RUBIK, ridden by Ravi Biramne.

I did look up at SBAC website and found it to have won during BSM of 2005. Unfortunately, the dividends are not given. Please check on that when time permits. Sorry for the regular bother.

regds,
Cruise 

@ Vijayakumar

     I am quite overwhelmed by your attachment to my writing and, therefore, wish to express my views on the long-running topic of "Betting Strategy"

     No amount of strategy helps to make money in any kind of gambling. The less said about horse racing, the better. Honestly, you and I - and all others here - had tried innumerable options, but please tell me what is the end result? LOSS

     That's why many seasoned punters don't hesitate to say here that certain strategies had helped them to contain their losses, that's all. No strategy helps you to make profits. That has to be clearly understood first.

     During my racing days, I had only one strategy : Play the favourite if it satisfies you in all manners, including its previous runs, jockey, odds and betting. Play longer-odds for place but for different reasons like recent 'hidden' runs, mediocre rider, healthy odds and no noticeable betting.

     It's true that I was making money for years together but at the end of the year, I found my profits were negligible compared to the losses. One Saturday, I made a profit of two lakh rupees with just 10,000. However, the very next day I lost the entire profit. It was not greediness but the temptation to make a fast buck when you are in plus. 

    Horse racing can only lower a person's standards - be it social, economical or emotional. I am dead sure about it. And that's what precisely made to quit racing six years before, and discourage medium-class people from venturing into it whenever I get an opportunity.

    According to me, all those who keep claiming here that with little bit of patience and a concrete strategy, one can make money is an "ultra bogus" claim. I don't want to go further deep into it. Wishing you all the best Shri Vijayakumar for remembering me.

@ Glasgow Prince

         Though all sources differ on when Rajendra Krishan won the Big Jackpot, most mention Rs. 48 lakhs as the amount. That is what the Jackpot of 19 Dec 1971 paid. Hence my belief though as mentioned earlier there is no authentic printed proof.

         If Sobranie is integral in your memory, remember she started racing in 1969-70. There was no big Jackpot at Bombay that year.

         Stud Book Library in Pune has all the Results Book and Racing Calendars of 1960s. Anyone can have access to it with prior appointment. Jackpot was introduced, I think, around the mid-1960s so a perusal of about 5 to 6 Racing Calendars should suffice to satisfy your query. 

@ Cruise_B'lore

DAZZLER (ch g 1991 Hadeer - Stage)

         Won Richelieu Plate, Bangalore, Sunday, 23 June 1996.  Trained by S. Padmanabhan. Ridden by N.W. Bird. Owned by Mr. Firoz Khan, Mr. Shahrooq Khan, Miss S. Dhanraj Gir and Mrs. Bina Khan. Book odds 20/1. Tote dividend Win Rs. 1085, Place Rs. 165

PRINCE KADEEZ (b c 1987 Czarinsky - High Ground)

       9 wins, Rs. 11,15,855 incl. South India 2000 Guineas, Gr.2 and placed third in South India Derby, Gr.1, fourth in Black Label Bangalore Colts' Trial Stakes, Gr.1, etc. Owned by Mr. Firoz Khan, Miss S. Dhanraj Gir, Mrs. Tikka A.S. Bedi and Mrs. B.H. Moses. Trained by S. Moses.

Hello folks,

Got it now!

Feroz Khan owned Prince Kadeez won The South India 2000gn, Add that as one more classic won by him.

Hello ITR,

If you haven't then don't bother about Prince Kadeez but certainly do check on Dazzler with regards to the payout at the tote when ridden by Nicky Bird.
Would appreciate it a lot.

regds,
Cruise

https://www.pressreader.com/india/mid-day/20190131/281595241763711

Hello folks,

Thanks to Dr Bashaar for pointing out that Macho was trained by Sidney Moses. That got me thinking and whacked my brains to get the correct pne.

The horse, owned by late Feroz Khan, was DAZZLER. This horse paid in excess of Rs 1400/- at the B'lore tote.

I would request ITR to confirm the same. The above took place during Bangalore summer season during mid-nineties.
Feroz Khan also owned a horse going by the name Prince Kadeez. Some part of my memory says it may have won or placed in some classic(s).
Thanks in advance.

regds,
Cruise

PS..

 

HP++

GG doesn't mean what you think, it means GoogleGuru. :) TDS is only a means of collection of tax by the Govt. The winnings became liable to tax from 1.4.1972. Btw, what does ++ stand for?

ITR,

You have not given the reasons why you believe that the 1971 jackpot that you have cited is the one that was won by RK and hence I could not take them into consideration. However, I feel he won the jackpot in the late sixties and not on 19.12.1971. These are the reasons for my inference.

- According to various old reports / articles, RK won the jackpot in  the late sixties, early seventies or even late seventies. 

- Only a report in Midday was very emphatic about the year 1971. It further went on to say that it became a national headline the next day and soon a law was passed to slap a 30 % tax deduction on winning from horse racing. This can't be true because winnings from horse racing, lottery, etc. were made liable to tax w.e.f. 1.4.1972. The time gap between 19.12.71 and 1.4.72 (less than three and a half months) is far too short for that to have happened.

- My recollection of the winners of the jackpot races which RK won, although faint,  is entirely different.

As luck would have it, you don't have the records of the sixties and would not be able to varify. Do you have any other sources who might have the records?

Hello HP++,

Thanks for pointing out. In fact, both Arjun Hingorani and Sunil Hingorani, are producers and directore. Though they have the same surname, they aren't related.

It is Sunil Hingorani who is married to Anita Raj.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Dr Bashaar,

Yes, indeed, it was Macho, not Mucho.

regds,
Cruise

@ Cruise_B'lore

       That book was published by SBAI around 2003. You will have to check up with Stud Book regarding its availibility. I thought, from  your communication with Anilxk that you are a subscriber to Indian Stud Book. The subscriber's section has access to Indian Classic winners though I am not sure if the name of the owner's name is included.

@ Kolramsri

      I had done a cut and paste of the reply received from my lawyer friend. However, it do admit that I am no expert of whiskies or their spellings. I only drink wine and that, too, occasionally.

This topic seem to be heading towards double century as almost all the HT members have contributed their valuable suggestions  except one smart person whom everyone of us knows. He is non other than our beloved SSPP. 

      Without his contribution the topic wouldn't be considered as complete. I earnestly request him to offer his considered opinion in his usual stylish writing skill.

         Please sir .

Arjun was born in 1925

The 'Hunter' and the 'Hound' are on the prowl again looking for a prey.

GLASGOW PRINCE,

He  started  it  let  him  pull  back...

Why  there  is  bad  blood on any  thread  started  by  me. Look closely. A loser  who  can't  give  a  SINGLE  WINNING TIP and does  clerical  work  of  counting plus  or  minus  points in  a contest only during  last  few  years demands  unashamedly me  to   give  details  of  my  winnings. Why  can't  he  use his expertise  used  in adding and  subtracting  points  in  a  contest to  do  the  same in  picking  up my  wins  and  losses  from  the forum. He  picks  up  similar  data from  the  forum posted  on  various  dates  for  the virtual  contests and  sometimes sends cc's  to  others.

I don't  follow dual  standards, if others  follow they have to  explain with  reasons.

Regarding  RK's  jackpot  win ,I think it  was  between 1968  to  1970. Ofcourse  it  was  tax free at  source and  how  he, i.e., RK managed  to  save  tax on  this and other income I don't  know. At  that  time  he  was  the  highest  paid  lyricist in  Hindi  film  industry. Anarkali, Nagin  had grossed  close or  may  be  little  more, to  a  crore rupees which  in  today's valuation  will  cross  a  billion...

Regarding, jackpots. RK's  record still  stands since  last  50  years because though  few  years back a  jackpot at  RWITC  paid  more  than  73 lakhs and  the  net  culd  not  beat RK's  JP. It  may exceed in  future in numerical  figures but will  it  ever  beat  RK's JP?

NEVER?

50 LAKHS  OF  60'S  AND  70'S ARE EQUAL  TO  50 CRORE  OR  MORE considering the inflation and  other  factors  of  economy (which have  no  place  in racing).

Therefore, Rajinder Krishan 's  win  can  never  be  surpassed  in current  monetary  terms...

       Mucho (b g 2003 Tirol - Pyjama Samba) won only one race in his career though he raced till 2011. That was the Dandeli Plate on 10 Nov 2006. He was the favourite on books at 6/4 and paid Rs. 25 for win and Rs, 13 for place. Ridden by B. Paswan, he was trained by I. Ghatala and owned by M/s. Sunil Damani, Jawad Ayaz and Pankaj V. Gupta.

      No other Mucho was found though the possibility of a change of name always exists.

Mr.Cruise_B'lore,

Regarding horses owned by Feroz Khan, if I am right - he owned a horse by name "Macho" ( I dont know about Mucho ) - that was trained by S.Moses.

                                                      Dr.Bashaar

Dear Cruise. Industrialist  Anil Virwani, who once owned many horses married actress Rati Agnihotri and made her lead in a winner owned by him when she was only days away from delivering their first child. The horse trained by Himmat Singh was aptly named FIRSTBORN. For me, participation here, just to spend my time. Except  God nothing is sacrosanct. Yes, we inadvertently give some not correct information. So what. Heaven will not fall ( Raghavan used to say) I am an easy-going Guy with malice towards none.

Indian _Turf_ Record_ The information regarding CHAKORI was obtained by me from the other site. When Poonawala Stud can give wrong information about their own achievements, I don't know whom to believe. Regarding Chakori, all the connected people are dead.

I appreciate the promptness in responding. But you did not feel it fit to verify my posting no itching after drinking GLENFIDDICH Whiskey. You have referred the concerned whiskey as G L E N F I D D I T C H. I don't mind, by whatever name you call it, But  William Grant & Sons may not like.

Hello ITR,

I have never seen a copy of INDIAN CLASSICS, In fact, I would be keen to procure a copy if available, Is it possible to source it?

regds,
Cruise

Hello folks,

Acorrection to be made.
Late Sudhir was the paternal uncle of present RWITC committee member Milan Luthria.I gave it as the the other way around.
Apologies for the lapse.

regds,
Cruise


 

@ Glasgow Prince

       The winners of the Jackpot on 19 Dec 1971 were Lovely Lady, Victorious, Billionaire, Umeed Inse and Dick Mink. It paid Rs. 48,73,533 on one ticket. (No consolation Jackpot). Records, of course, don't mention the name of the person winning the Jackpot. I believe that this is the Jackpot Rajendra Krishan won but  have no printed proof.

       I have all the results annuals since 1971-72 but only one (1960-70) before that. That annual has one result which caught the eye. On Monday, 23 Mar 1970, the Jackpot winners were Hard Held, Le Roi (your Lerwah ?), Milano, Sobranie and Gavrooche. There were 130 winning tickets and the dividend was only Rs.4,879. Can't be the RK Jackpot. Eight year-old Taras Bulba did race four times that Bombay season but did not win.

        I am afraid I cannot check anything else of the '60s.

         On another note. Bindu, who was seven times nominated for the Best Supporting Actress award but did not win any, has lead in several winners. Nina Ricci was one of her earlier ones that I remember. Actress Rati Agnihotri married into the Virwani family. The Virwani horses usually had names starting with "Natural". RWITC Committee member Mr. Milan Luthria has close connection with the film industry. He directed the film Kachche Dhaage.

@ Kolramsri

      The book -- INDIAN CLASSICS - Diamond Jubilee Volume -- published by Stud Book Authority of India shows that Chakori, winner of Indian Oaks, Gr.1, Indian Derby, Gr.1 and Indian St. Leger, Gr.1 was owned by Mr. Chandulal J. Shah.

    I am sure your friend Cruise will confirm it.

GLASGOW PRINCE 

Who is this GG yu are referring to.

Yes there was no tax on race winnings those days .TDS came only in the  90's

Hello folks,

Late Feroz Khan's best horse was Winning Pretty. She won the Indian 1000gn(Gr.1), Bangalore Fillies Trial Stakes(Gr.2) and the Poonawalla Breeder's Million(Gr.2).
Another classic winning horse of his was Striker (won the Hyderabad Colts Stakes).
The horse of Feroz Khan that paid the maximum dividend at the tote( in excess of Rs 1400/- ) was Mucho. It was ridden by Nicky Bird and trained by S.Padmanabhan. 

Producer G.P.Sippy of Sholay fame too did own a few horses.

Film actress Anita Raaj, married to producer Arjun Hingorani, was seen frequently at Mahalakshmi race course. Her husband owned a couple of horses.

Present RWITC committee member Milan Luthria is paternal uncle of late actor Sudhir ( real name Bhagwan Moolchand Luthria ). Sudhir was a regulat at Mahalaksmi race course and known for making big bets. He was one of the very few to have made money at the races. A real lucky punter!
But, sadly,life was cruel to him. He died a lonely death leaving behind huge properties. His addiction to cigarettes and liquor cost him dear.

The few that I could recall of.

regds,
Cruise

Chanakya,

Thanks to GG, I just read that there was no tax on winnings from horse races in those days and RK did not have to pay an;y tax. However, it made front page newsa which attracted the attention of the tax guys who slapped a 30 % tax from the subsequent year. Lucky RK!

ITR,

Thanks for those interesting tidbits.

Dhanno does indeed strike a cord, obviously named after Dhanno ( the name of the character played by Vyjayanthimala) of Ganga Jamna fame. I also remember that Intaqam was jointly owned by Sanjay and Sadhana and was in fact named after their hit film by the same name. 

Coming to the jackpot won by Rajendra Krishan, I think it was in the late sixties. As far as my memory goes (faint though) , the first leg was won by Lerwa and the last by Taras Bulba. One of the other winners was Sobranie or Sobriety. You might be able to verify.

Another aside that I had heard of is absolutely incredible. Ranjit Bhat was undoubtedly the luckiest horse owner ever. Although he did not own a large string of horses, he won four Indian Derbies, three of them in a row with Commanche, Squanderer and Manitou. He was so passionate about racing that according to his wish, after his death, a part of his ashes were sprinkled on the Mahalaxmi track. What love for horses and racing!

The record book says.

CHAKORI won the Indian Derby on 2.2.1946.

Jockey W.T.Evans. Trainer A L J  TALIB

Owned by Mr. K .K. PREMANAND.

Guys some do win and few are from pune the biggest bettors they control the odds because of their money flow their success - then there are average winners[like me] and some very small winners on top there are people who in the long run are level -no loss or profit= all those will fit in 6% of the racing public -atleast 94% do end up losing -some beyond repair .

G.P is fro pune he will even know the names of the big bettors who control the odds -and are big winners . Ask him the question, see what he has to say.

@ Glasgow Prince

      Only because of your gracious 'invitation'.

       If Rajendra Krishan (his name is spelt differently at places) did win the big Jackpot of 19 Decc 1971, the last leg winner was Dick Mink trained by S.M. Shah.

      Dilip Kumar did own a share in one race horse that I am aware of. A filly/mare called Dhanno (should strike a chord) which ran in the colours of comedian Aga. She was trained by Rashid Byramji.

      I know you have mentioned a few names of Bollywood celebrities at random only. Trust you will enjoy a few -- not all -- additional names. The biggest race horse owner from the film industry was the Movie Mogul Mr. Chandulal Shah who owned Indian Derby winners Chakori and Balam. He was also a big bettor (race course, stock exchange and cotton figures) who trained with Talib. He lost all  and was later travelling by locals.

      Another Indian Derby which went to Bollywood was Nijinsky owned by Mary Wadia. She was none other than the iconic "Hunterwali". You have mentioned Intaqaam owned by Sanjay Khan. He owned that horse in partnership with his co-star Mrs. R.K. Nayyar (Sadhana of Woh Kaun Thi fame).

     It is said that Talib had bought a colt for Raj Kapoor. For unknown reasons, Raj Kapoor did not want the horse so it raced in the ownership of K.P. Singhania and his wife. He was named Loyal Manzar and won the Indian Triple Crown. Rak Kapoor had earlier owned Raj Dulari with Mr. Chandulal Shah and was later to race Sangam and Triveni in his own colours. 

     Marathi actress Hansa Wadkar was a regular at Mahalakshmi. So was the peerless music direcor Madan Mohan Kohli. Rajendra Krishan and Madan Mohan used to attend races together and are associated in innumerable hit songs which are in all-time great category. Madan Mohan, in presence of singer Talat Mehmood and actress Mala Sinha, gave the first public glimpse of the tune he had composed for the Mala Sinha starrer "Anpadh" in the small Members Stand at Bombay. The song was "Aap ki nazaron ne sahjha pyar ke quabil mujhe".  Mala Sinha's father Albert Sinha, Talat Mehmood, Madan Mohan and Rajendra Krishan used to attend races together and Mala Sinha used to often drive them to Mahalakshmi.

       Rajendra Krishan immortalised the Indian Derby winning trainer Baba Khan in a song he is said to have scribbled on the inside back-page of Motee race card -- "Oh Mr. John, oh Baba Khan ---". The song from "Baarish".

      Most of this is not in my fifty years collection of records and this is all I could remember off-hand.

Chanakya,

 01-07-2020 01:51 pm

I missed addressing your first para.

The three criteria that I mentioned were with regard to indirect taxes. As we know the considerations for direct and indirect taxes are different. Hence tax on income and tax on betting service are not comparable. While an income  of Rs 25000 pm may not appear imposing today, in the sixties and seventies it represented a very very substantial amount. Rate of Income tax (direct tax) as we know, is related to the quantum of income and hence there are slab rates. A quick powwow with GoogleGuru told me that the peak rate in 1970-74 was 93.5% which no doubt was a very high rate but it will have to be viewed in the economic context of those times in order to evaluate its propriety. I am therefore unable to comment on it. On the other hand, a tax of 15% while betting with the bookmaker was a service tax one had to pay irrespective of winning or losing. If the punter happened to win, he was supposed to include those winnings in his total income and pay the applicable income tax.

Incidentally, Mehmood was a relatively big time horse owner followed by Sanjay Khan, Feroz Khan and Mukri. Mehmood owned many good horses like Hard Held, Gold Giver, Rock Witness, Babbanio's Baby, etc, while Sanjay Khan owned the Derby and Invitation winner Prince Khartoum, Intqam and Princess Saiqa. If I remember correctly, Feroz Khan's Winning Pretty won the Poonawalla Million. Being horse owners it was natural for these celebrities to visit the race course. I don't remember Dilip Kumar owning any horses. According to one of the reports I had read, Rajendra Kishan was playing cards at another location when his jackpot ticket fructified with the last leg winner Taras Bulba, if I remember correctly. (ITR is welcome to confirm.)

Einstein,

Nice metophor , E = (1/2) mC*C !

A real good  one from the  Einstein which enabled  US to  make  Atom  bomb... 

The  headpost and lateron  my  detailed explanation  of my  winning  more  than 25+ points gives  the importance of  betting  strategy and  proves  its  success  over  normal betting  used  by  a  punter.

There  are  few  self-confessed  losers who  rarely  win  and  lose  most  of  the  time and  therefore myopically  think  that  every punter  is  a  loser.

Their thinking and  efforts  of  belittling  winners will put  a  corrupt  journalist  to  shame who picks up  partial parts of  a speaker to  prove  his  biased  opinion. For  example, a loser  has  picked up  my  losses  on  1/320 and  5/3/20  but fails to  mention  my subsequent wins  on  8/3/20 & 12/3/20(on  my  blog). Look  at  his  audacity. He  asks me to  give  details  of  my  wins from  29/12/19  to  12/3/20. He  is a jobless retired  man  and  claims 35 + years  of  racing  experience and  a  confirmed  loser  even  now! How  much  money  he  must  have  lost,  is  unimaginable - the  money  on which  his  family had every  right which  was denied  to  them.

This  site  does  not  belong  to  him but  he asserts  his  puerile behaviour. He came  to  this  forum few  years  back, perhaps  4 to 6 years ago  I'm writing on this  forum  for  more  than  20  years.

The  level  of  his  IQ is  proved by by  his  corrupt  journalistic  approach. From 2/1/20  he jumps  to 1/3/20 ignoring the  10  to  12 racing  days  where  I won by  winning  varying  units. 

Glasgow  Prince  adked  me  for  details about  my  performance in  'open ' races in  a  genuine  way . I  posted  it. This  man does  not  requst but  has  the  puerile gumption to  demand it !

@ all,

A playing  card  gambler who  could  be  arrested  by  police and  put  in  a  lockup for  several days is  teaching  morality  to racegoers who  bet with  bookies. This  is  the  height of  hypocrisy...

Kolramsri,

Strategy  is  used  in  every successful  activity, be it  in  sports shadowing  the  best  player  in  hockey & football, or  business  or  in  war on  the battlefield. Without it success  or  winning is very  difficult...

My last post is addressed to ITR and Chanakya.

My sincere request to both of you. Let us put forth our views objectively and without getting personal.   A protracted and bitter war of words will not only take a toll on both of you but also on this forum which can be a boon to all race enthusiasts. There is already enough bad blood without adding anything further to it. Please take a step back and introspect. Is that really what we are here for? Please shake hands and move on.

Chanakya,

I very much agree with your contention that racing is not of primary importance for many of those who manage the game. In fact this was one of my observations that I did not articulate in my last post. That is also the main reason as to why they are not inclined to take a serious long term view about the future of the industry.

As far as the taxation part is concerned, alcohol and tobacco are heavyweights for the Govt. Racing is just a fly on the wall. Consequently, it gets proportionate attention (cold shoulder) from the Govt. 

If Rajendra Kishan encashed a ticket without paying any tax, I suppose that would be so because there was no TDS on race winnings at that time. He would have had to include it in his total income and pay tax accordingly. As you have rightly said, the premium on high value tote tickets was very much in existence and it was offered for the purpose of money laundering.

@Raghavan

Losers abound in plenty in here and you sir, are one among them. Pray, tell me, my dear sir, should I heed your words then?
Thou, a self-confessed loser, has gotten no business to poke in the matters of a winning person. Lay off him would be a good option.

@ ITR,

There  is  a  English  proverb - 'fools  jump  in  where  angels  fear  to  tread'.

Why  did  you  jump  in  with  your  Malvika 'gem'?

I've  never  seen  a  so  called  'Record holder'  behaving like  a  novice. Every  now  and  then  you keep  on  asking  this  proof  or  that  information indicating  that  with  '50 years  of  experience'  alongwith 50  years  of  record  books  you  are  still in  the  primary 'school'

Some frustrated bloke has  brought  out  Malvika and  though  I don't  care NOW,  I got  irritated  and  said

 'I did  not  bet  on  Malvika'

that  is  no  reason to prove that  you  are/were right. 

I CHALLENGE  YOU - IF  YOU  ARE  A  HUMAN  AND  NOT  A  ROBOT TO  POST YOUR  TIPS , for  a  month  or  a  season or  a year   and  COMPARE the  ROI with  my  ROI - ANY  CENTER - Mumbai/Pune, Bangalore, Mysore, Hyderabad - EVEN KOLKATA...

cLERICAL  JOBS  DON'T  'EARN'  MONEY. They help  to  sustain  a  punter/person  to live  further...

Einstein,

"Chanakya is trying to guide punters something.  Either take it or leave it".

What he is trying to guide?  He is actually boasting that he has a perfect strategy and as proof is offering his heroics on a particular day.

He says in this site that he won 90k.  On an earlier occasion he claimed to have won 60k and 160k during the same period.  Let him  give datewise profit and loss statement.  I will demolish his silly claims.  He says  that on 2/1/20 he won 28 points.  But, on 1/3/20 and on 5/3/20, he lost close to 25 points.  He should also explain why he lost that much on those two days.  One should not simply keep on boasting about  his win bets.  He should also explain why he picked up 20/1 horse on 2/1/20 and at the same time why his choices on 1/3/20 and 5/3/20 failed miserably.  Only then, his post carries some credibility. 

Every punter has his day of profit.  And every punter will have his days of losses.  In my assessment the ratio is 1 day profit : 4 day losses.  That is the reason so many punters have gone bankrupt.  So many punters have lost their house, wet lands, family jewels, insurance amount, gratuity amount and are presently virtually care of platform.  

Once I won forecast bet  9,600 on a bet of 400/-.   Can I state that and say to you all that I am having a perfect strategy in betting.  (Thereafter  my 11 bets proved losers)!  Chanakya is precisely doing that only.

So, let this site be not used by anyone for self glorification.  Any useful matter by any person is welcome by each and everybody.   Even trivia most welcome.  But, not profit claim, every fortnight, from persons with truck loads of superiority complex!

@Kolramsri,

           Thank you so much sir for responding to my queries.  I'm only an occationsl drinker and  very eager to taste the original GLENFIDDICH whisky. Kindly inform the shop from where I could procure it . I also convey my gratitude to MR.INDIAN TURF RECORD for giving the English version of the saying in Hindi quoted by him in his earlier postings.

        Good day to all punters.

There is one Caan Berry, has identified some successful winning strategy in betting. He is a professional Betfair Trader. He pulls in over 1,00,000 British Pounds a year. These earnings claim has been privately verified by Beating Betting. If approached, Betfair will be in a position to confirm this.

Buddy,

You believe me when I say I am a loser!  Very kind of you.  I was wondering how to reply you in case you disbelieved me and start asking pointed questions.  Thank God, I am saved that much of trouble.

I have mentioned 3 different profit claims by Chanakya.  60k, 160k and 90k.  In respect of his betting during 29/12/19 to 12/3/20.   And I asked you to give comment about this variation, inconsistency.  It seems, I should not have asked you.   It is too much on my part to expect you speak something which Chanakya does not like!  Answer that query and I will answer why I am asking punters not to brag in this site about their so called profits!

Raghu - you have said over here you were a regular card gambler and I had even reminded you of it - card clubs were/are illegal owners never paid tax on their earnings -over there even punters used to get arrested- you indulged in that - racing is not illegal and 10% is accepted no punter arrested - hypocrite.

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

YOUR  29/6 7.15 PM

Agreed  that  3  criteria  are  used  by  tax  authorities, but  was  it  ever  appplied  by  Indian authorities., in  the past. I  presume, not. In  60's  and  70's  highest  tax  rate  on salaried  and  business was hovering  between  93 to  97%. Now  consider. You  earn Rs. 1 crore in  a year  and 'give' 97lakhs  to  Govt. and save  only 3 lakhs which  makes you   live  on  Rs.25,000 per  month. In  a  total  contrast, during  that  period, in races  we  were  paying  on  a  minimum bet  of Rs. 80 a  total  of  Rs.96 (Rs. 12 tax and  Rs 4 commissin) - all  in  white, with  a  betting card from  the  bookie. This  means while tax  on public  and  business  could reach  97+ % on  a white  income  in  salary  or  business it  was  only  15% while  betting  on  racing with  bookmakers at  Bombay  in 70's India.

Everyone  knows Rajinder  Krishan encashed  a  jackpot  ticket  of  more  than  50 lakhs without  paying  any  tax and  all  in  white. There  was  an unconfirmed  rumour  that  he  bought  that  ticket from  somebody  else. I don't  believe it  because  he  used  to  visit  Bombay  racecourse which  many  filmy  personality  used  to  do. I've  seen Dilip kumar, Mukri, Mehmood, Feroz khan and  many  others in those  times. However, buying  and  paying  a  premium  for  a  high  value ticket was  a fact at  that  time. The  going  rates  were5 to  10% for 5k to  10k.10 to 15 % for 10k+ to  50k and  negotiable for above  that value ticket. I used  to  play  jackpot  thoe  days  and  was  offered these premiums on several  occasions.

Slowly  the  Govt. realised  its mistake  and started imposing  tax on this industry. THe  so  called  reps  of  industry argued for lowering  the  tax on  this  'game  of'skill' but  do  you  think  they  really  tried. One  of  a  rep  of  RWITC  is  a  billionaire who  earns  millions (??) from a serum made from  horses. Most  of  these  reps are millionaires  and  billionaires  and  racing  is  a  pastime  for  them and  not  a  fulltime subject. A industry  flourishes and  expands when people 'controlling' it are 'severely affected' by  its improvement  or  downfall and  it  will  never  improve  if  they  are  not...

Raghu- if you were morally all correct ,man of high princple you would be far away from the tote - when all bettors who can afford to bet with bookies bet there openly how can it be wrong - club accepts govt official knows  -no arrest of any punter - your law and few like minded like you apply only to youself - something which is accepted by the majority can't call it illegal- even my friends who play on tote used to go to the bookies for half tax when they could afford bookies minimum bet on one grand.

Small time tote bettors are on the tote because they never had a long winning streak otherwise they too would have moved to the bookies.

@ Einstein,

You  are  not  aware  of  many  things  related  to the subject. I'm not  discussing  the  past  results after the  race. I've  posted  these  selections on  this  forum, BEFORE the  races  were run and  not AFTER the  races  are  over so  that  noboy can  say  that  I'm  trying  tp  provemy  point from  hindsight. The  theme is  how  betting  strategy can  IMPROVE  the  ROI and  the example has  to  be  given  from  the  data published before  the  races and  not  after they  are  run.

Kolramsri,

You  are right, another  suitor  has  just  appeared...

Sun,

What  do  you  mean  that  by  QED raghvan  becomes  right?

@ all,

The  topic  is 'betting  strategy' and  how  its  use  can  improve  ROI. Any theory, theme,topic is  usually  explained  and elaborated  by  examples, without  which  it  may  look shallow. If  I  give  an  example  which  has  no published  proof naysayers  will comment  that  it  is  fictitious. Therefore  example,  in  this  game, in  which  naysayers  far  exceed  the other  group, has  to  be  picked  up from  PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED data to  disable  their disbelief ! If  it appears bragging or  scoring  brownie  points - let  it  be, I don'care..

Vijay Kumar. I think you will not mind me informing it is G L E N F I D D I C H, a product of William Grant & Sons. I am also from Chennai.  When the market opens I will definitely inform you, where to buy Original Stuff.

Raghu- winners should be discreet and maintain studied silence another of your silly thought process ,why dhould they be silent - are you saying only losers should keep singing 'I am a loser' like you do - people would like to know more about winners -not losers 

Let me tell you enen though I won and survived in racing in my group there were plenty of guys who did not gamble and made a fortune -so its not that I am proud of my journey here but it was my only option and I did ok . But why can't winners talk about their winning - strange arguement if you don't believe your problem - we believe you - you are a loser.

@ Chanakya

     The Malvika matter was definitely a closed affair as far I was concerned with your statement of 26 Apr 2018 admitting your mistake. As far as I can remember (corrections welcome), I have never referred to it again.

     It was re-opened by your statement in this thread -- "I.. I've  NEVER bet on Malvika ...." which contradicted your own earlier posting.

@ Vijayakumar

     "Boond se gayi woh haud se nahi aati" is a Hindi saying. I think, it refers to integrity, reputation, esteem, etc. Roughly translated, it means, "What is lost by a drop cannot be recovered by a tank full of water."

@ glasgow Prince,

I normally slam bookies for their acceptng bets at 10% tax, that too without issuing them the official card.

The act of bookies is illegal!  But, you feel that the act of punters is not illegal.  

I do not know which jurisprudence you follow!  The act of is punters also illegal.  They can be bookied as accessary.  

The bookies are doing an economic offence.  The punters happily agree.  In this country, where just one or two raids has been conducted against bookies in 12 years, such charges from myself appear somewhat funny. But I am stating the actual position as per law.  See the ITR's post addressed to you.  

Then why not a single punter arrested?  Everybody who is not charge sheeted is not a saint.  Many criminals do evade the Law successfully.  

Buddy, Chanakya etc are peddling wholly unacceptable theories.   And in arrogant manner.  You are also joining that team.  Good Luck.

@All

I feel it is highly unfair to target Chanakya for a past mistake, which. as per his admission, has acknowledged and accepted. Why backdate to something that happened in 2018? Just because one gets caught on the wrong foot does not mean he has to go back to some mistake of the past to target him.
Here he is trying to give some suggestions which, he claims, has proven to be very successful.
Take him at face value or just ignore him if you do not agree to his suggestions to be in the plus.

E..courage = M..aster (C..hanakya)2
Unable to type square root, hence bracketed x 2.

Trying to slight or humiliate is just not acceptable. I strongly object to that.
 

Indian turf record,

In current days, some youngsters & middle aged people definitely show their impatience to the seniors; but many people by and large extend their courtesies due to them.

The said senior in question has admitted that he had no bets on Malavika.  

Now, that is a serious damage to his credibility.  Is he really playing all the horses that he has tipped that too standard 2000/-?  

Inside the race course, there is no distinction between a fresher & senior, a high school drop out and a phd holder, a senior class I officer and a junior clerk.  All are same.  All are under the mercy of bookies.  

I maintain that all are not winner  If there are any winners, they should be discreet about that & maintain a studied silence.  Should not be bragging about that.  

@ITR,

  I thought that topic of Malavika is a forgotten topic.By QED you have proved Raghavan is right.However, he has already mentioned that Age is catching up (in another post).So let us leave it at that

Thanks.

Here is another one enamoured after Malavika. I don't know how many suitors will follow.. ( I can safely eliminate my friend Cruise)

he is absolutely right because in those days there was no chanakya to fool punters

Buddy,

True, a punter  loses bigger  amount  with  bookie but  due  to  wins also  lasts  longer. My  point  is  by  using  a  correct  strategy he  can  remain  a  winner  forever...

@ ITR,

 You have  yourself  proved my  point  about  seniors, that  today's lot  does  not  believe in truth unless a  proof is  given. Various  postings of Glasgow  Prince  is  a  proof of  my statement. 

Look at  your latest  posting. Is  claiming  a  win  or place 'wrongly' a crime? you  and  your  friend/(s) never  get  tired  of  Malvika which  shows the  pervert pleasure you people  derive every  now  and  then.

I did  play  Malvika  and  claimed place  but  immediately when  pointed  out  I accepted my  mistake as is evident  from  the  extract  you  have  posted. The  matter  should  have  ended then  and  there.

I feel inability  of  making money  from  racing  is  making  many frustrated  losers to  target  those  who  claim  and prove  that  they  are  winners...

     Many HT members have enthusiasticalhly participated and expressed their valuable opinions in the topic under "Betting Strategies.  It is likely to cross the hundred mark very soon.

       I do not want to interfere in the ongoing debate as I don't have that much knowledge in punting such as bar-betting(favourite to loose),  ghoda khaneka (eating the favourite) etc. Now I am  learning  new betting strategies in this game of skill by going through these articles thanks to all the members.

 @ INDIAN TURF RECORD. 

   There are many south Indians in this HT who don't know Hindi at all. Please give English version for the following.

       "BOOND SE GAYA WOH HOUD SE NAHI AATI".

   @KOLRAMSRI.

   Kindly inform where the GLENFIDDISH Whisky is available and its cost as in tamilnadu we are fed up with tasmac brands which are very inferior in quality comparing to other state brands.

      Happy betting.

       CHEERS.

Chanakya,

In the old days, things were different. There were hardly any other avenues of information apart from senior punters. Today, the younger guys are much more informed - sometimes misinformed or inadequately informed also - in comparison. I don't mind anybody asking for proof. If one wants to learn anything new he needs to ask questions. It is much better to say 'I don't know' than to say 'I know all'.  As Sadhguru says "'I do not know' is not a negative state of mind. Every discovery has come from this realization."

Einstein,

Thank you for your appreciation.

@GP

Highly impressed with your knowledge of the subject,sir.

@CK

There you again by taking into account past results. Sir, do it before a race day to check the veracity of your claims. Patience is a noble virtue sir and I am sure you too are blessed in plenty of that. Come November and you shall have all your chances, of which, I am sure, you are likely to come ahead. I look forward to that day of reckoning.

@ Chanakya

     In olden times, 'seniors'  were respected because they were gentlemen who were willing to accept their actions.

    In this thread, in your posting 26-06-2020 2.37 pm, you have said:-

    "Lastly, I've NEVER bet on Malvika, If you have proof, I am sure you must have saved it from archives --SHOW IT .... "

     If you go back to page 78 in HORSETALK, your posting 22-4-2018 03.45 pm (it is in the thread 21-04-2018 Mumbai Race selection (22/4/2018) SUNDAY started by S. GOVINDARAJAN (Chennai) )  you have said:-

     "Admo win, Harrier - each way, Malvika and Art of War - place ....If money comes Malvika should win; "

     Then on page 79 in your own thread "A good handicapping system ...." iyour postings of 26-04-2018 2.37 pm says:-

     "@ ITR,

      My selections on 22/4/18

      there was mistake in my calculations,,,

      Malvika places 3rd. which was not a paying place and though place odds were 7/10 it did materialize in payout ....."

      So you did play Malvika and claimed to have been paid on a horse which finished third in a seven horse race.

     Q.E.D.

     In the past, when cornered, you have attacked personally and I am fully prepared for a vitriolic repartee. In one of your recent posts you have mentioned something wriiten by Kabir. I am no expert on Kabir but I do know a simple Hindi saying, "Jo boond se gayi woh haud se nahi aati."   

Chanakya, ITR, Buddy and all others

Here is my take on various points being discussed.

The tax structure globally takes into account three criteria viz. affordability, essentiality and desirability. If something is taxed heavily it does not necessarily mean that the Govt does not want people to buy it.

As far as the present state of the Horse Racing Industry is concerned, I believe that the primary reason why the industry is not able to cope up with the changed business environment is its own lack of vision. It is a given that competition will increase within and outside any industry and the players have to come up with innovative ideas to keep ahead of the pack. Sadly, I strongly suspect that the horse racing industry looks at itself as a gambling industry instead of entertainment industry. The visual spectacle and the associated thrill that it provides has remained largely unexploited despite a favourable Supreme Court ruling that it is a game of skill. Taking into account the stigma that the activity carries, the industry has to make extra efforts to keep plugging away to manage a shift of perception. It will take time but there is no reason to believe that it can't be done. For example, the gaming industry is making headway in this direction. Take the case of consuming beer or even something as simple as eating out and look at the amazing perceptional shift these activities have undergone over the years. Another stumbling block is the administration of the sport which is managed by an esoteric circle. The myopic vision and the resultant infighting has prevented the key players from taking a pragmatic, innovative and long term view that will catapult the industry to greater heights.

I had  given  only  one  example  to  explain  the importance  of  betting  strategy. Let  me  be  more  explicit  this time. On 2/1/20 I posted  following  selections  in  the  tips  thread  of  this  forum:

1) Nicolini

2)  (54) jodi

3)   1 5 10 ??

4)  8  7P  2

5)   (365) open race  favorite  will  lose

6)546

7(582)

I bet  on  my  first  choice of  the  race  but  if  I  put  them  in  bracket  or  write open  race I'll bet on  all  the  3 runners.

Now, a novice or safe  player  will  bet  on first race  only and  run  away...

A fairly  experienced  but  prudent handicapper-punter will bet  on  non controvercial  choices  and  they  are 1,2,4&6 races which  will  give a return  of  1,+4-1, 0, 3/4 + 1, 0, -1, 0 and  will give  a  ROI of  + 4 3/4 units.

But an experienced  and  intelligent punter  who has faith  and  believes  in  his handicapping  will  get  areturn by  BETTING  ON  ALL 7  RACES as  follows:

1)    +1

2)   4-1

3)    0 because  of  ??

4)    3/4 (win) + 1 (place)

5)    +1 (laying)  +20(win) -1 (no.5)

6)    -1

7)    6 1/4 -2

adding  plus  and  minus  we  get  + 33 3/4 and  - 5 units It  gives  us  a profit  or ROI of  28 3/4 or  to  be  conservative  let  us  say  it  is  28.

This PROVES the importance  of  betting  strategy  over ALL handicapping systems ROI which  use PLAIN BETTING  METHODS....

Chanakya, Buddy and all others,

I wanted to correct once and for all this impression being brandished around that punters betting with the bookies at a reduced prince are committing an illegal act.

Kolramsri,

Glenfiddich is  smooth  but  sometime it  gives  goosebumps to  few...

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

Very  nice  repartee. It  may  go  unanswered or un-noticed.

When  I took  retirement in  early  90's,I had  to  move  out  from  lavish  Govt.  accomodation  to  a  2BHK flat at  Bombay(now  Mumbai) I was  forced  to  dispose  off  many  items  which  included almost  100 kgs.  of Cole,Original Vel, Fonns' result booksand  race related  material. I do  have 90's  onward data and  books but  I don't  refer  them since  many  years.

In late 90's  and  early  art  of  this century  we used  to  have discussions and  rarely  used  to disbelieve  much  senior  punters  of  the  group. Present  lot  of punters  is  entirely  different. They  want  proof  of  everything and  when  it  is  given  they  still  have  doubts!.We  have learnt  many  things  from  our  seniors, current  lot does'nt  want to  learn because they  want  proof  of  every  statement...

Punters with bookies end up losing more then those on tote - but its about capacity and the better odds mean money of the losers goes longer - the main thing is that low percentage win/won - some othes have broken even -all in the long run and with bookies -  

ITR,

No Sir! The fee was for 'establishing the facts correctly' and not for a 'prompt but speculative' response. Anyway, I am presenting below another extract from another site entirely free of charge.

Bar Bet – This new form of horse racing betting wager, introduced by RWITC, is a bet that any horse other than the favourite will win. In other words, it is a bet on the favourite to lose. Any other horse winning the race will pay a dividend.

This incident also shows that the most seemingly authentic sources can be unreliable at times and can not be depended upon entirely to establish the facts for posterity. Something to bear in mind for future reference.

Ramji -that whiskey is smooth as silk and you you end up drinking more also it starts kicking in a bit late chances of getting drunk on that is more.

Chanakya - losing is secondary to getting conned by lower odds then what one can get - getting conned and losing is worse then just losing even if the amount is same .

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

your 27/6 , 11.35a.m.,

Very  nice - objective approach  and elaborate explanation.

Tobacco, alcohol, gambling and  few  more vices will  never  have the  good  fortune  of lower  taxation. Inspite  of population  increase , tobaco  consumption  has  come  down - no chance  of  decrease in  tax. Same is  the  case  with  racing. while  in  50's  and  60's  and  even  in  70's  the  average number  of  punters  at  Mahalaxmi  used  to  be  10 to  20K  and  one  day when  they  crossed  more  than  50K  on  a  Derby  day  in 60's no  printed  tickets  were  availble  and  late comers  were  admitted  free!  Today  on  ordinary  days  not  more  than  1000 to  1500 and  on  derby  day they  don't  even  go beyond  15,000...

Therev are  2  reasons  for  this  decrease. In  60's & 70's  the  means  of  entertainment  were  limited. Radio and  TV were operating  only  for  few  hours. Games, sports and  other  activities  was also  for  specific  period  and  hours...

Today,radio,TV blare  out  24  hours  and  other  entertainment  avenues, cricket and other  games  are  played  round  the  year, This  has forced funor  adventure  seeking  person move  away  from  raacing - leaving  only  'hardened souls' behind...

Another  point, as  you  have  mentioned that  it  is  the  bookie  who  is  offering 10% and  the  punter is  in  no  position  to force  him to  do  that. Why  not  these toteplayers  catch hold  of  these  bookies  and  produce  them  before  law...

They  know that  if  they  try  they  will  not  be  able  to  walk forever  in  future because  the  betting  mafia  will  trace  them and  deal with  them. However,  they  can  always  and  forever express  their misfortune due  to  heavy  taxation  on  these  forums...

I wish  them  good  health  and  good  future because  due  to  them  only  few  of  us are making  money  by  forcing  bookies to  pay for  our  bets...   

Buddy,

More  than  90% of  punters lose  and  their  families  suffer. Even  many  10 percenter  also  onthe  losing  side which  becomes  evident  at  the  payment  counter where  much  less  nummber wait  in Q than  those  who  were fighting  to  place  their  bets.

Tote  players  have no chance to  make  money  and  must  be  thankful  if  they  can  break-even...

@adjudicatewar,

If  your  strategy has no  connection  with  racing  than  it  has  no  relevance here...

Indian_Turf_Record 

I can bet my life on it ,Bar betting was prevalent at RWITC in 2009.

GLASGOW PRINCE,

sorry,  my  mistake. looks  age  is  catching  up....

@ Glasgow Prince

      The 'fee' was for prompt response ! However, I like think that I am a  good sport. If you can let me know the address, it will be delivered. The 'fee' will be determined, unfortunately, by what is now in stock.

I never felt any itching after drinking G L E N F I D D I C H Whiskey.

Countries like singapore liquor is very expensive -Cars are very expensive -govt wants people to avoid them- even then you want it pay a heavy price .

India case in racing matter seems similar want to bet pay a heavy tax .

When I started racing there was no half tax in cash only the credit bettors got half tax officially -but now there are less credit bettors/bookies don't trust and bookies need a turnover so cash at half tax is accepted - otherwise in the old days a cash punter had to play in full tax they had no option. 

ITR,

BY THE WAY, WHERE IS MY FEE?

ITR,

Since  you had said that you would be finding out on your own I thought that you would get there anyway. However, I can very confidently say that Bar Betting did exist at RWITC during 2009-2010. I myself had availed of it. I am shocked that all your sources including the club secretary of all the people have denied it. You could have saved yourself much of the effort if you had taken the help of GoogleGuru. Here is an extract from one of sites. 

Since Saturday (4-4-2009) the "Tote Fixed odds" have created a "Bar Betting" based on the same "Eating Horses formula" where the tote odds are given to bet on a "Favourite Losing". This has made horse-racing in Mumbai a less corrupt sport since betting on a "Favourite to lose" is available to all punters! This form of "Betting" is common in all "Sports Betting" on "International betting sites" and gives punters a better chance in betting as an investment speculation, hence the "R.W.I.T.C" of Mahalaxmi race-course has been a trendsetter in India for introducing "LEGAL" Betting permutations and combination's to the punters.Congratulations "R.W.I.T.C" for being an innovator in Indian horse-racing.Strangely in 2010 racing season, the "R.W.I.T.C' has abolished the "Bar-Betting" system on totes although it is flourishing "Illegally" amongst the "Bookies", code word being "Ghoda Khaneka(Eating the favourite)".

Chanakya,

I thought you would have guessed it from the wording of my post. My suggestion was meant to be facilitating rather than challenging.

@ Glasgow Prince @ HP++

         I had requested you to provide more details about BAR BETTING. Perhaps, you have been busy. I had also said that I would explore other sources.

        I wrote to Secretary, R.W.I.T.C., Ltd and he has replied:-

       "Coming to the point, we never started BAR BETTING at R.W.I.T.C., Ltd".  That clinches everything.

         I had also written to someone who has been close to the RWITC. Ltd. administration either as a Committe Member, a Steward of the Meeting or a Member of one of the Sub-Committees and he has replied, "Not to the best of my knowledge. Also it would not have been legal for the Club to do in my opinion.

           Another person to whom I wrote was a very long time friend who is a practising lawyer and whose family has had a share in an odd horse for the last sixty years. His reply:-

           "RWITC conducts racing on the authority of the license granted to it by the State Government under Maharashtra Race-Course Licensing Act, 1912. The conditions of the license stipulate various conditions that the Club has to abide by. One of the conditions is that any changes, innovations, etc. that it makes to Totalisator Rules, have to have a prior approval of the Government. I am not aware of BAR BETTING as you call it but it is my considered opinion that Government would never have permitted it.

           As to your question, "What is a legal bet ?", I would say that a legal bet is one for which the Tote operator gives you a computer acknowledgement or a Bookmaker gives you an official card. A Tote operator cannot refuse to accept a legal bet. Similarly, a Bookmaker cannot refuse to accept a bet at the odds shown on his board. The exception is that a Bookmaker can refuse to accept a bet which lower than the minimum bet limit. There is also a maximum limit which most punters are not aware of.

          Evasion of tax is illegal; moreover, it is a criminal offence.

          Your last point about the Bookmaker making up the full tax from his pocket makes me laugh. I know you are old and getting older but you are not yet senile !

          Thanks for sending the "fee" along with the note. The Glenfidditch will be opened when the situation improves and you can drop in for a bit of pot-luck"

@ HP++

        So it appears that I was right. The question is not about who is right and who is wrong. It is about establishing what is right.

        I don't challenge anyone's knowledge but we all are human and so liable to make mistakes. Mistakes have to be corrected and correct facts established. 

GLASGOW  PRINCE,

No  response  after  I  gave  details  of  'open' races?

@IIMBLUE,

your  reply  amuses  me. A  gambler  playing  on  tote  becmes  law  abiding  and  another  playing  with bookies is  a  law-breaker!

The  heading  is  'betting  strategy' which explains  maximising  ROI. Which  rule  is  broken  by  maimising  the  ROI? 

Laying (eating) the  favorite - which  rulebook  says  it  is  illegal? Even  RWITC  tried it  under 'bar  betting'  the  favorite ,many years  ago  but  failed. Was  the  club  breaking  the  law?

Nowhere  in  head  topic  or  later  on  discussion I've  said to  bet  without  tax  or below  tax. The  strategy  takes  care  of  all factors and  give  better  returns than normal  betting  done  by  most  of  the  punters.

you  quit  betting  because  you  lost  and  could'nt  make  it. Ii's  is  OK but  don't  preach and  try  to  be  'holier  than  thou'...

Tax on gambling is considered a sin tax because it is perceived to be harmful to the society. Applicable products also include tobacco and alcohol. If they are perceived harmful why doesn't the government ban them outright? Simple. The quantum of tax revenue that they generate makes it prohibitive for the governments to do so. The Supreme Court has allowed the states to ban lotteries but thirteen stated have not done so. Therefore it is not just a question of moral perception but economic fall out for the governments as well. The demand for alcohol and tobacco are largely inelastic. With increase in price, consumers might only migrate to cheaper brands. The sale of liquor keeps growing irrespective of the tax rate. The demand for race betting however has proved itself to be elastic. Here lies the difference between the other products such as alcohol and tobacco and this fact inter alia  needs to be emphasized by the industry in its representations to the Govt.

In view of the foregoing, it is clear that as far as the governments are concerned, they choose a trade-off between controlling what is largely perceived as a sin on the one hand and maximising their financial benefit to the themselves on the other.  If one looks at it carefully, the sins are in fact being utilised nay exploited to generate maxinun tax revenue. If preventing sins was a non negotieable priority, they would have been banned outright. So, that fact overrides any notion of social obligation under the given circumstances. Obviously, if the Govt was flush with funds, it would be able to ban the undesirable products and services outright.

Now coming to the betting at reduced tax. As far as my knowledge goes, the GST act makes it mandatory for the product or service provider to collect GST on the product or service he sells or provides and pass it on to the Govt. An offence is said to have been committed if he does not do so. Hence the onus of the lagality lies with the service provider - in this case the bookie. If he is providing his service at a lower price there is no illegality in the punter availing of it. We have already seen that even the Govt is forced to give priority to its financial gains through tax collection over its so called moral or social obligations as a result of the prevailing circumstances. Hence it would be grossly inconsistent to blame a punter of the same omission.

I rest my case!

Law abiding tote player wow  - most more then 90% of family suffers when one of the member takes the gambling route - Have you ever heard of any punters being arrested for betting at 10% -not even one in the history of racing - it is accepted everyone knows -not hidden -  people hide the fact they are gamblers - but no one hides and plays at 10% = get real man -anyway tote players have no option otherwise they too would take it - gambler with misplaced morals - best left alone.

My point is very simple. 

How can illegal betting and cheating on tax can be presented as a betting strategy with a call to others to follow it  ?

Chanakya,

How many hours I sleep and how many hours I am awake is something which you will better avoid.  There are times when I had played rummy non stop  24 hours.  You just restrict your replies to the questions that come across.  

You never had a bet on Malavika!  Great.  Anyway, let me remind you of what you said in thread "mumbai race selections 22/4/18 sunday".  The said thread opened on date 21/4/18".

Chanakya said 22/4/18, 3.45pm....

Admo win; Harrier each way; R F run win; Malavika & Art of war place;

If money comes on Malavika, should win.

And, today you are saying that you had no bet on Malavika.  Invent some other excuses; that you had fever on that day and did not attend the race course.

***********

And I will be happy if I had a  strike rate of 15 out of 100.  Normally it is difficult to achieve that much strike rate.  You claim strike rate of 35%.  Quite possible.  You try forecast bets; let me see whether you can achieve 15%.  In any case, my losses are minimum.  Because my bets are small.  And I am happy about that.  A person in the habit of betting will be happy to cut losses.  I normally bet only 3 races in a day.

Whereas you are betting 15 to 18 horses in a card of 7/8 races.  God save such punters!

In any case, you are avoiding a clear cut reply to my query.  You have claimed 60k, 90k and 160k profit on your bets during the period 29/12/19 to 12/3/2020.  This inconsistency has not been explained by you.

And let me mention one thing.  I am never jealous of any winner.  A winner today loses at least double of that amount in the next  6/7 days.  

In entire indiarace.com and other site, there are hundreds who convey their selections.  No one bombards this site every fortnight about their winnings.

I am only telling that you are not a winner.  And, I stand by what I said.  If you are winner, then enjoy the won amount.  Do not brag in this site.  All your posts is nothing but pack of non sense.

@Chanakya, 

I do not have to prove to anyone  that I am a law abiding citizen.                          

I always bet at BTC tote and question of cheating the government of taxes never arose. When the risk --reward ratio became unfavorable with the advent of GST,  I simply quit betting. 

You have already declared that you have no respect for law nor for tax authorities  and I believe in you. 

I donot wish to change anyone. 

You and your followers have your own way. I follow my own way,  even if I am alone. 

@chanakya,

My strategy no where related to horse racing science which is handicapping and bla bla 

      In the past  many mathematicians  have tried and failed to create a perfect betting strategy.  Each betting system has its shortcomings no matter how strongly they try to convince others that their strategy is guaranteed.  Betting strategies should never be viewed as a way to make a guaranteed profit.

          Some participants in the HT are telling others how good or successful they are in their betting strategies by blowing their own trumpet.

         I totally concur with the views of Mr. Raghavan who is always speaking truth even if it is unpleasant calling a spade always a spade. Try to understand his real feelings and intentions from what he tries to say or write by reading his inputs between the lines.

         Have a nice day.

raghvan,

I KNOW  YOU  HAVE  NOT  BEEN  SLEEPING  PEACEFULLY,  LAST  POST  AT  11 PM AND  NEXT  POST  IN THE  MORNING  AT  6.22AM  MEANS AT  THIS  AGE  YOU  HAVE  DISTURBED  SLEEP...

Take  it  easy...

You  are a  confirmed loser - as  per  your  admission and  acceptance hundreds  of  times  here  and  everywhere...

I am  a  confirmed  winner  as  per  the  postings on  this  and  other  forum...

The  twains  can NEVER meet...

Your  remarks,postings, emnate  from  the  frustration and  inability  to win  from  races; while  my  confidence  grows  from  the winnings I make.

We  are  poles  apart and  can  never  have  the  same plateform...

Your win  percentage as  per  your OWN admission  is  12% and  mine  is  35% indicating a TOTALLY   different  approach to making  money  from  racing...

Final  call : live  your  life  you  want  to and  don't  be  jelous  os  of  others  who  are successful  more  than  you...

Lastly, I've  NEVER    bet  on  Malvika , If  you  have  proof ; I'm  sure  you  must  have  saved  it  from  archieves - SHOW  IT...

@ buddy,

Losers  will  ALWAYS  OUTNUMBER   winners... 

Useless  to  waste  time  in   TRYING    to  EDUCATE  them...

But  time  pass  with  them  them is OK...

@ all ,

iiiiiimblue tries to  show  or  prove  to  be  a  law  abiding  citizen.

good  posture - but  it  needs  proof...

 can  he  prove  he  has  never  cheated  during  his school, after  that during  his interaction  with people during  the  job/(s???). Before  pointing  a  finger  -show  your  crendials; I'll  not  ask  like  a  stupid( known to  all)  that  3  fingers  are  pointing  at  you. where  is  your betting  list  or betting  tips...

In  fauji  parlance  we  say : PROVE  YOUR  GUN...

If  you  can't  prove then  keep shut...

.

@ adjucate....

Don't  make wrong (stupid)  statements. 

follow  Andy  Beyer. He  made  his  pile and the  sold  his  formula. Today  DRF  and  many  other  US racepapers/books use  it  - no one (serious  punter) gives  it a  damn importance...

If  you  REALLY   have  one -  make  a  pile  and run away(disappear)...

@ kolramsri,

Well said. He can't  find  an  answer; may  repeat same words like a  worn out  record  which  moves  in  the  same  grooves again  and  again...

@ HP ++,

Yes ,  notebandi  did  not  prove its  worth  It  could  not  bring  out  the  black  money...

@ adjudicatewat,

I did  not  ask  you  to  share  your  formula  . Just  share  the  'end  result' like  I'm  sharing   the  end result  of  my  system  and  not  sharing  the  system  at  all...  

Chanakya,

The world will not come to a standstill if you do not answer my questions.

I pointed out the inconsistencies in your narration.  Whether you consider them worth answering or not is for you only to decide.  

You speak something.  There are people who accept that line, hook and sinker.  There are people who notice the obvious error/s but pretend to ignore.  There are people who expose your lie.    

You may abuse, insult those who expose your lie.  That shall only expose your arrogance.  Do not use this site for self glorification.

You claim that you are a winner by betting on horses.  Keep all the cash that you win to yourself.  If you are inclined, contribute a small portion to charity.  But, do not bombard this site with your win claims too often.  Anyway, if you can not put on hold your temptation to brag, at least maintain some consistency.  Your claim of place dividend on Malavika deserves a Nobel Prize for lies and bluffs.

I have verified my formula on March 7th was at Malakpet race course watching don't dilly dally winning at 20/1 and I was very happy that I made a source to earn money to achieve my big dreams and all of sudden COVID19 came and said wait for some more time because you got the big thing very early as all the punters from decades still unable to find the path and it is very hard to digest that for 2 years I was just on indiarace.com and bolrace and studied about racing and finally got it but I need to wait for some more time to acheive which is not achieved by a normal punter and on YouTube mahendra singh rathore is the one with me ????

Glasgow Prince:

Will the Government reduces GST.  It is possible if and when  Sun raises in the West.   However, for argument sake, let us assume that the Government reduces the tax.

I have already mentioned how the bookies will react in such scenarios.  But, no harm in my repeating that.

If the tax is reduced to 18%, the bookies will volunteer to take bets at 8%.  If the tax is reduced to 12%, then bookies will charge 6%.  And, if the tax is reduced to 5%, then bookies will charge 3%.

The bookies will never conduct their business as per Law. 

Your objection seems to be that the current GST is too high.  Yes.  100% correct statement.  If the total amount of bet from punters is 2 crore per day, then 70 lakhs will go towards GST/Club commission.  

So, some people point out the draconian gst slab and try to justify their betting at half tax.  I only say that the GST is the legislation passed by the Central Government and everyone must oblige that Law.  If you do not want to pay up the GST, then you should not bet. That is all.

Members in this site are objecting to my statement for obvious reasons!

Can anyone tell me maximum amount accepted by bookies and maximum amount they can pay us???

Chanakya 

If I share this formula then there will be no horse racing in india am sure about it because if everyone implements it bookies will go into loss and people loose interest and will not play in totes. Let this formula only work for me let me earn some money and I want this sport run asusual????

Einstein and Moses,

You compliments are much appreciated.

Chanakya, 

Tax on gambling is considered a sin tax because it is perceived to be harmful to the society. Applicable products also include tobacco and alcohol. If they are perceived harmful why doesn't the government ban them outright? Simple. The quantum of tax revenue that they generate makes it prohibitive for the governments to do so. The Supreme Court has allowed the states to ban lotteries but thirteen stated have not done so. Therefore it is not just a question of moral perception but economic fall out for the governments as well. The demand for alcohol and tobacco are largely inelastic. With increase in price, consumers might only migrate to cheaper brands. The demand for race betting however has proved itself to be elastic. 

(to be continued)

Good suggestions Just too good..

GLASGOW PRINCE,

Your  24/6, 6.30pm

Government  will  not  reduce tax, rest  assured. After  GST the tax revenue from  betting  has  come  down  to less  than  200 crore  from much  more  than  350 crores. Under  present  economic  slowdown  it  is  impossible to reduce the  GST.The major  problem  is  none  of  the  clubs  can  give guarantee  to  sustain  the present revenue income  from  racing and  gradual  increase in  future. These  suited booted  people called  members live  in  their  own  cocoon.

All  over  the  racing  world the average  return  to  punter varies. Where  it  is  more  racing  is  flourishing, say  Honkong. In  Honkong 84 rupees  are  returned  to  punters out  of  100 - the  club  & Govt.  takes  only  16%  The  rate  of  return  varies  from  84%  to  40% in  some  countries while  in  India  it  is  perhaps  67% - one  third  goes  to  govt. & club and  punter  gets  two third  only...

Many  years  ago  in  70's and  begining  of  80's the  minimum betting  unit  at  Bombay was  Rs. 80. I remember we  used  to  give  100 rupee  note  and  receive  Rs. 4 alongwith  the  betting card. The  govt. & club's  take  was Rs16.There were  more  than  30  bookstalls and  more  than  20  bookies  were  in  waiting  list. Today  we  have  only  17  or  18 ...

Times  have  changed , punters  also  must change...  

@ all,

I don't  respond  to morbid  questions  and  morbid  persons. Whenever I mention  my  winnings or  returns they  are  in  response  to  specific questions to  reasonable persons and  may  not  include all returns  as  well  as  losses. For  example in  response  to  GP's  query  I've  given  my returns  for  Mumbai only which are  actual  from bookies  of  that  day...

@adjudicatewar,

Good. you  have  a  formula. Will you  share  your  2  years  hard  work  just  to  prove  that  you  hav  it?

I don't  think...

Raghavan. Bookmakers demand only 10% as tax on the bet placed by the punters. Then the punters leave the counter, trusting the Bookies without insisting Card confirmation, maybe helping the Bookies to save on stationery. Who knows the bookmakers may pay 18+5 % from their pocket to make good the difference. Do you have any material evidence to disprove, what i have written here?

GLASGOW PRINCE,

You  have  asked  me  to  give performance details of  'open' races. Here  they  are  for  Mummbai  season  from  29/12/19 to 12/3/20. 

29/12 - race  no3 & 5 -return(net  win) - + 6 1/4, 

2/1/20 - race  no 5  - rerturn                     + 18 

5/1/2-   race  no  6      return                     + 4 1/4

18/1/20 -  races  no 5,7,8,9 (loss)             - 2 1/2

24/1      -race  no  7    return                     +3

23/2/20 -       races  no  3 & 4   return          +3

26/2-       races  no  2 & 3   return(loss)     - 6

5/3/20 - race  no  3 -   retuen(loss)            -3

8/3-   races no 1&2      return(loss)           -1/4

12/3 -   races  no 5&7  - return( on  my  blog)  + 12 1/2

FINAL  RESULT:

  GAIN - + 47 UNITS .    LOSS 11 3/4 (=12)   UNITS

NET  GAIN  35  UNITS - only  from  Mumbai...

Raghu- Its painful tedious to keep track of who said what and where - if anyone is doing bogus talk their wrong thought process will take care of them - wrong track will mostly- 90% of the time have a unfavourable end - its no use use dragging the same issue for long period - move on . Live and Let live.

'some desire to be in good books of chanakya' says raghuravan errr ram - look its a silly statement there is exatly zero benefit in being in his good books and logically only if benefit is involved people try that - I'll answer your question - frankly since I don't believe in chanakya'a racing gyan/technique I don't read that part of 'how racing should be done' - its taxing to go thru that. I am hee just for fun -mental stimulation.

Buddy,

You have no friends or enemies among horsetalk members.  Well said.

"Have said it many times I do not support what Chanakya says on racing matters".

Of course whether you support or not support on Chanakya is not at all relevant.  My understanding is you fiercely defend him whenever somebody questions his views.  Anyway slightly pleased to hear from you that you do not support what he says on racing matters.

It would have been better if you had stated whether you agree with my post regarding what I said about Chanakya or his system.  In this site he has mentioned three different amounts (60k, 160k and 90k) as his profit from 29/12/19 to 13/3/20.   Obviously, at least two figures he has mentioned are lies.  I state that all the three figures are lies. 

In such controversial matters, it is always better if people take a definite position.  Of course,  some people desire to be in good books of Chanakya.  Hope you are not one among them.

IIMBLUE,

Even I do not know whether it is legal to eat.  As far as I can see, the betting rule book is totally silent on this.  

All those who bet with bookies pay only 10% tax; and mention that with pride.  Buddy says that it is the responsibility of bookies to charge full tax and remit it to Govt/club.  If he is given an option to bet at half tax he will grab that opportunity.   

We can not argue with such people.  At least BNG bookies are caught by the commercial tax officers.  The bookies should be thrown behind bars for 2 years.  Then only they will learn the lesson.  The half tax bet is in operation for the past 12 years!  We should be happy that at least they are now made to run from pillar to post and are not permitted to run their business at the racecourse.

Glasgow Prince:

I have stated 100s of times that the Government considers racing as sin and demand appropriate tax.  At BNG for win/shp/plc, the tax was 12.5% earlier.  For other pools, the BTC was charging 30%, 40%, 44% etc.

HP++,

"Race course will be empty if there is no half tax"!  Absolutely no problem if there are no punters in the race course.  Bookie has no business to collect half tax and deprive the Govt/club its revenue.  

Today is day no. 105 without racing.  So, people will not die if there were no races.  Let that be closed permanently because of high GST.  Absolutely no problem.  In fact, it will be a biggest gift from the bookies or Government to the punters.  

But, when there is racing, bookies should necessarily collect the tax and commission.  That is the Law of the Land.  No escape! 

BNG employs high number of tote clerks.  During this 105 days of without racing they have not been paid one phootee kowdee.  

If they were strict, and bookies were forced to collect tax & club commission with every bet, they would have had sufficient reserve and paid all the tote clerks 5000 or 6000 per month interest free loan.  They are men, in middle age, with wife and one/two children.  

But then No. 3 was favorite at 18/10 & second choice 6 was at 20/1 and third choice no.5 was at 10/1.

@Glasgow Prince

Much impressed, sir, with your observations.

Guys I have formula as punter by choice said there is no formula no it's wrong I worked around 2 years to make a formula by understanding racing.

Chanakya,

The normal understanding of the term 'open race' is that any horse can win. A race confined to three horses can hardly be called open. Be that as it may.  All such assessments are subjective. Unless these assessments turn out to be correct on a majority of occasions, the punter is doomed because there is always the possibility that a horse outside the three will win. You will be able to demostrate your strategy forcefully if you take all those races which you had categorized as 'open' and show that the winner indeed emerged from the selected three horses. What is your opinion? 

The hike in tax rate  and the resultant drop in revenue of the clubs has clearly demonstrated in no uncertain terms that the demand for race betting is substantially elastic. 

For a punter, he has the following choices

- Continue betting with miserable returns with no hope of making any money or even breaking even

- Quit betting

- Accept the bookie's offer to play at reduced tax

- Revolt against the high betting tax

The Govt has the following choices

- Rationalize the betting tax to an optimal rate  which will stimulate revenues of the clubs and generate higher tax for the Govt.

- Maintain status quo, keep raiding the bookies and allow the industry to get destroyed

- Ban racing altogether on moral grounds

The racing clubs have the following options

- Continue to convince the Govt to reduce betting tax

- Continue to take a neutral stand vis a vis the bookmakers because the clubs at least get licence fees from them

- Continue the status quo and wither away

Now let everybody make their own judgment as to what he should do and who is encouraging half tax betting.

- 

Raghu- immblue questioning chanakya is not my concern that's between them -  I just put my views across - did most of my betting outside where bookies dont pay a single dime to club or govt - It is not my concern - cops raid them they deal with it - I wanted to bet where i got a fair deal - otherwise why bet why get involved in unfair deal , unfair deal,long term regular basis is suicidal 

Some punters want the races to start because they have to compulsorily bet.! Then,  they think betting at half tax is their birthright and laying horses is their bounden duty !!

Now the question arises,  why the government should be eager to start races to please these punters who don't want to pay tax. By the action of this class of punters,  owners and other professionals,,  the tax collection figures are so miniscule that it is almost laughable  ! The government is not losing significant sum of money because racing activities have come to a standstill  !! It does not care for this sector anymore!!! Online betting too is not going to happen anytime soon. 

What brought things to this state? Cheating on payment of legitimate tax has been happening for a long time. The raided bookmakers are goners. Only some punters are left to defend this system. They had the choice of migrating to the totes but paying legitimate taxes is not their cup of tea  !

BAR BETTING NOT BER BETTING. 

REGRET THE TYPO

I  do  not know your town but in Delhi NCR  very clear instructions that no person above 65 yrs  can go to  open gatherings.

The golf courses now open here   are following  these guide lines

@chanakya koushik

Sir, 

You asked me why stick to racing? You also suggested there are other way of enjoyment & entertainment.

You are right sir I have other way of enjoyment like spending time with my family, playing with my children, irritating my wife for small things, taking my parents to pilgrimage etc with all of this I participate in racing and that by choice of myself with my hard earned money which I can effort.

Is this OK sir?

Waiting for your reply. 

Raghu-  Your perceptions are mostly silly and even worse in racing matters - I don't speak for anyone -Chanakya is more then capable of taclking issues that come his way - No one is my friend or enemy here - I just happen to know more on racing matters and like to share my experience .Your fixation with chanakya is of morbid level - He probably haunts you in your dreams too- 

Have said it many times I don' support what chanakya says on racing matters .

Very very true ..some amount of black money is also required to keep the economy running..in India the impact of "notebandi"is there for everyone to see.High taxation is just not a solution to keep an economy running

@ Glasgow Prince & @ HP++

        Thank you for your response. In my post of 22 June, I had clearly stated "to best of my knowledge" and invited old time RWITC punters to "throw more light". So your response is appreciated.

       Can you indicate roughly when this "Bar Betting" took place ?

        Now that I have a name "Bar Betting", I will also try and explore other sources. 

A man who speaks truth need not remember any thing that he has said in the past.  But, a man who lies should necessarily have a sharp memory.

Otherwise he will make himself a laughing stock.

A case in point.  Refer to the post by Chanakya himself on 15/3/2020 titled "winning money from races..is it possible"?  In that thread he has given two different figures.  80 points won and 30 points won.  As Chanakya bets 2000 per race, his winnings are either 1,60,000 or just 60,000.

In the thread that I have mentioned, there appears the following two posts:

Chanakya said on 16/3/2020:

"As per the closing odds of BOL, COLE, VEL etc I have won more than 55 units from 29/12/19 to 29/2/20 and lost about 25 units from 1/3/20 to 13/3/20 giving me a winning advantage of roughly 30 units!

Chanakya said on 19/3/2020.

In the same thread, he also mentions that he won a net (accounting for losers also ) 60 plus units at Mumbai, and 20 plus units at Bangalore; adding to more than 80 plus units.

I had pointed out the said variation in that thread itself.  But, there was no explanation from Chanakya.

In this thread he has mentioned that he has won net 45 units during the same period.  

There was no racing since 13/3/2020. 

Buddy,

IIMBlue is questioning Chanakya.  Defend him by all means.  Your loyalty and friendship with Chanakya reminds me of a similar bond that existed between Krishna & Arjuna in Mahabharata.

But, I feel it is better if you  follow the policy of "wait and watch".  No need to act like a mouthpiece of Chanakya.

As I have mentioned above, Chanakya repeatedly changes his statements.

ITR,

If I remember correctly, some years back, RWITC had introduced 'Ber betting' wherein a punter could win by nominating a horse to lose.

Chinese goods ? why not -whole world was into it - but with issues cropping up its different now -  If you come into gambling for entertainment your point of view is correct immblue - if you are in a do or die situation [make money or lose money] my point of view is correct - the fact that punters lose even with half tax is another story - fact is without half tax racecourse will be empty -half tax keep the wheels turning in the course -  Frankly I don't care about racing anymore - just giving my perspective.

Yu are wrong this time ,Rwitc had introduced lay betting and called it bar betting.The bookies/club cud not run it profitably in a tote system..

Yu cannot challenge race knowledge with Chanakya

1.  TO SELECT HIGHER CLASS.

2.  TO TAKE  CLASS RATING. /  WINNING RATE.

3. TO COMPARE WITH OTHER HORSES.

4. TO SELECT GOOD HORSE.

THIS IS ONLY THE WAY IN HORSE RACING TO BET.

BETFAIR- online legal gambling all punters can be bookie and have lay bets - each and very steward/commitee member play and know about half tax -  only a retard who can play at 10% will request the bookie to take full tax - some here dont even bet enough for bookies to accept their bet -  they pretend to have a high moral ground - if they had they would not be in the course gambling.

I have totally understood what chanakya wants to say . Actually, he earned a million that day too but was too humble to disclose it. Congratulations.

And secondly, why dont you directly give your betting strategy with your selections instead of opting for cryptography?????

Buddy,

THe  'degeneration'  sets  in  the  mind  of  a  punter-writer who  after many  attempts  over  a  period ( days,weeks,months,years or  decades) fails to win  from betting  on racing.The  resentment at los, inability to succeed and  the  periodic  claim of few  successful punters create a permanent scar on  the thought  process which  manifests  in  the  writings. Leave  them  to  their fate...

Can  a  punter 'force' a  bookie to accept his  bet  at  0% or  10%  or  less or  more  than  the  prevailing tax and club's  commission  rates? 

NEVER. Then  why  all  this blah blah against punters?

@ ramanujan,

A nice and  logically  phrased  post, I'm  reading  after  a  long  time.

But  I  feel you  have  not  understood  my point. My point  is  to  'maximise' ROI by  taking  'reasonable' risk if  my  system confirms and gives  me  an  edge over others to get  a  much  better  ROI. I use speed,pace,current  form and  few  other  parameters to prepare  a  numerical rating of  runners of  a  race. Very  rarely  i get a single  outstanding  runner like  Nicollini in first  race. most  of  the  time  I get  2 or3 runners who  have very close to  close  ratings. I also use  astrological 'predictions'  which SOMETIMES , OVERIDE the ratings. 'Favorite  will  lose'  was  astrologically  obtained. Leaving  the  race  and  going  for  a  cup  of  tea would indicate that  I've wasted  my  time  and  effort of  few  hours  of  that  day and  few  decades of  my  life. Not  acceptable. 

'Blood vessel break' is  a  ploy used  by connections. Ask any  vet - about  60  to  80% runners  some  'blood vessel break' after  a 'hard' race; they  may  have  it  during  a  mock race!

One  point  you  must  understand. Betting  on  racing  was  NEVER   a punter-friendly  scenario in the past, at  present and  will be  in  future...

Devise  a  system  backed  by  a  strategy to remain 'alive' in  the  current or  'future ( ?)' scenario...

@ Punterbychoice,

YOu belie a  part  of  your  name -'.... by choice'. If  choice  is  available and  you  have  'discovered' that  no  system or  formula in racing can  make  you  a winner then  leave  it. There  are  hundreds  of  other  means (I'll not  elaborate)  for  enjoyment - why  stick  to  racing...

I've  NOT  built  a  system  here, I'm  giving  the  'end  results' of  a  system  built  by  me. Hindi or any  language  cinema  is  not  my field - therefore, no  comments...  

@Buddy, 

Your logic is well taken. 

You are doing half tax betting because all others are doing it and it is the job of the government to stop it. 

You are doing illegal lay betting because all others are doing it and it is the job of the club to stop it. 

I heard a corrupt person telling :

I am corrupt because the entire system is corrupt and it is the job of the anti corruption bureau to stop it. 

A shopper was yelling :

I buy Chinese goods because they are available and it is the job of government to stop them from coming. 

It is easy to become dishonest , find reasons to defend it announce it from the rooftops too! 

Those who decide that racing is gambling can go to any extent to defend all their actions  !

@ all,

Some  of  the  posts  neither have  any  logic nor  sense; therefore, I'll not rspond  to  them...

IIMBLUE,

Do bot  sermonise  in  this  game and  try  to  be  'holier  than  thou' in  the game  called  gambling, I don't  bet  at  tote at RWITC. Don't call  punters degenerate because  you  are  also  one of them and  self  abuse  is  the worst  kind  of  abuse...

@ ITR,

RWITC has  published  30  ,40  pages  of  rulebook. You  can  buy  an  official  copy  from  their  office or  better  still download  it  free  from  the net. Show the  readers  where  it  is  written  that  laying  is  illegal...

you may  call  'laying'  or  eating at  tote  as  ' discard' - underlying  meaning  remain  the  same; you  are  bettting ( eating  or  laying) on  tote under the  garb of  'discarding'...

golden viper,

Attending  races  have  no  relationship with age  of  punter. I've  seen 80+ close  to  90 punters even  wheelchair  bound gamblers  at  RWITC...

My initials  are  no SS nor  my  initials  have  any  S in it...

It's a game of enjoyment ..take is as a game of excitement of  a sport. 

Wonder how this great man mints money by playing all races and that too with 4 option

bet at full tax and don't lay horses or you are a degenarate punter - Moronic ides and values have no place in gambling - whatever is offered to get a better deal while betting should be taken - How idiotic is to tell the bookie 'I wont play in half tax please take full tax'  if the bookie is cheating let the authorities take action its not the punters fault in racing it is WISE to play at half tax and 100% of the big bettors do that- these small time punters can keep cribbing no one will care.

Lay bets are good when you are confused - when you lay a horse its as good as playing all the other horses in that race -same as when you play a horse its as good as laying all the horses in that race - simple logic.

Well said..... there is no system or hit formula in horse racing or gambling  incld  Hindi cinema or any cinema.A race club will call a punter a patron and not a gambler as much as an old man is called a senior citizen or a blind man a visually impaired..

@CK

Appreciate you taking time to explain in detail. Much obliged but still do have some lingering doubts which could be cleared once racing re-commences.

Would be glad and much obliged if you could do the same with any race in forthcoming days.

Thanks a million!

Even the actual great Chanakya will be confused with  this strategy..

Only a gambler plays all races

@chanakya

Sir with due respect I want to inform you that there is no system or hit formula in horse racing and Hindi cinema. So please don't try to build a system here. If any system is there in 150 years some one would creacked it before you. Please try to understand.

It's a game of enjoyment take is as a game of excitement not as a sport. 

Generally, the so-called ‘open race’  caused either by the ‘favorite will lose’ deduction or otherwise is best avoided for betting and time reserved for harmless tea time. For the hardcore, the same can be used for pools and taken advantage of.  One is smart enough to analyze and conclude that the favorite is going to lose for reasons one’s own. It does not automatically follow that the connections of the qualitatively next best contestants share the wisdom to go all out and take advantage of the situation and hoist winning flag. The realistic limitation of the favorite other than the ‘blood vessel’ broke scenario is a well-guarded secret and often reserved for the benefit other than the punter community.  An unfancied, enjoying access to such classified information under nexus often ridden by a smart in-form rider is often seen to be delivering goods more so when the favorite is associated with the high-end profile. This is hardly a punter-friendly scenario to indulge in unless critically evaluated and handled..

Cheers

Ramanujan

First  all persons above 65  yrs.  are barred  from attending  such gatherings in the open. Second my family will not allow even if okayed.

I am sure C  is above 70 so how  will      you go ?  hence it does not matter how you bet.

I will opt for online  betting  if and but agreed. racing not before 01 sep. 

C a personal question   are your intials SS?

Mr. Amazonite,

 Betting  is impulsive - no  doubt  for  most ( but  not  all) puntersi but  it  is  no  excuse. A person  works  for  30  days and  earns  his  pay - can  he  become  impulsive in  his  work place. His  days  will  be  numbered  if  he  tries that! Same  is  the  case  in  racing- impulsive  punter  will  not  last  long...

All those  who  have  used  numerology, astrology, etc  without deep and  correct understanding will  fail but  not  those who have  mastered  these.

For example in  my  choice - 3 6 5 open race, FAVORITE  WILL  FAIL the  prediction   that ' favorite  will  fail ' was  done only  on  ASTROLOGICAL ASPECTS...

I advise  not  to  pass judgement  on  systems or methods or approches about  which  you  do  not  have  deep understanding  or  knowledge...

@ Venkat,

you  amazes  me, I've  no  other  words  to  say.

What  is  strategy in  racing for  a punter- it  is  not  same  as  that  used  by  connections  or  jockey  during  race. It  is a method  to  IMPROVE  OR  INCRESE ROI  for  a  punter.

Open ness of  arace  does not  depend on  odds. It  depends  on  the  perception  of  the  person betting  or  tipping on  that  race

The  favorite(18/10) lost  the  race because  he  broke  a  blood  vessel,third  favorite(17/2) also  broke blood vessel and  second  favorite(46/10) was  no  where. Who  has  given  the odds  as  sacrosant  standard  for  betting...

you  may  follow the odds  and  their  movement - I don't do  that....

@badboys,

Read  my  posting on  2/1/20 reproduced  here. I never  said  that  in  an  OPEN race  favorite  will  lose. In  race  no  7  I said  open  race but NOT  said  favorite  will  lose. In  5th race I said OPEN  RACE  FAVORITE  WILL  LOSE.

Try  to  differentiate  between  2  reamarks...

   "Laying the favourite" ('eating' in our language) is ILLEGAL. To say that RWITC had introduced it sometime ago is to best of my knowledge incorrect. There are many old time punters of RWITC who can throw more light.

   What RWITC had definitely done was introduce DISCARD POOL. In this, favourite was discarded and you could nominate any horse. To collect, your nominated horse had to win. If favourite won, your horse had to finish second. This was not popular and soon discontinued. But it cannot be called "eating" favourite. SHP and THP are variations of same theme.

@ Einstein,

following was  my  posting in  tips  thread:

race 1)  Nicollini

2)  5 4 jodi

3) 1 5 10 ???

4) 8 7place 2

5)  3 6 5 open, favorite  will lose

6) 5 4 6

7) 5 8 2 open race.

Due  to  convention I also  give  3  choice but  bet  only  on  first  choice  if  there  is  no  suffix like  jodi, open race etc. With suffix jodi I'll  bet  on  both and  in  open  race I'll  bet  on  all 3 and  with? or ??? I'll leave  that  race. By suffix  jodi  or  open I mean  that in  my  calculations  both (jodi) and  all  3 (open race) runners  are very  close in  rating  and  I'm  not able  to decide  which  one  has  better or  more  chance to  win. Therefore  I'll  bet  on  both  or  all 3 in  hese  cases. In  case  of jodi 4(winner)  was at  4/1 & 5 was even If  4  wins  I get 3 units and  if  5  wins I come out  with  no  loss/profit.

Betting  at  tote is  a  losing preposition  and  I do  bet  with bookmakers. Mumbai  bookies  accept 1000 as a unit  bet  and  one  of  them even accepts  500 as  the  minimum unit. Other  centers  I  do  not  know  but  on  Invitation  day  at  Bangalore  I did  bet 1000 on  few races and  made  a  roll  on  some races - but  that  is  past...

JOdi  betting  and  betting  on  all 3  runners  is  NOT    done  in  EVERY race but  only  on  selected  ones  and I proclaim that  I've  not  lost on these'deviations'  in  the  past  and  will NOT lose  in  future also...

Betting strategy for......like us?

1) develope a handicapping  system

2) check its performance by  dry  runs,

3) improve till  it  gives  positive  ROI

4) compare the  returns  on  minimum,low and  maximum of  days and  analyse

5) make corrections, deletions,additions based  on  findings

6) carry  on  till  you  get 80%+ ROI

It  took  me  years because  i  was  not  computer  savvy. It  may  take  you  few  days  or  few  weeks if  you  use  computer  

@Chanakya, 

Any betting on which you don't pay full tax is illegal ---PLAIN AND SIMPLE. 

RWITC does not have a window to bet on "eating the favourite " --so your strategy is illegal. 

I visited BTC in the past. Eating the favourite has no sanctity here in the eyes of the Club and the tax officials. Some degenerate punters may be doing it all the time among themselves. 

Dear sir,

Sorry to tell you who said in open race fav will going to loose. And as per your explanation if fav won the race you loose 4 units they you feel next will cover then at the end your pocket will be empty. Dont tell these type of wrong caliculation.Every one Has understand the race card then spent 4-6 hours on that and select 2-3 horse for the day then back your 3 horses only. just observe one month then you will get the result. Dont feel negative if loose one two days. You will get positive Result.

I agree wih punterbychoice.

Coming back to Shri Chanakya's post, with due respect, I cannot see the strategy. 1st of all this race is not an open race as I understand an open race. Infact, on the same day, Race # 3 was more open with the favourite at above 3/1. In the said race Agrami which was at 18/10 lost the race as it broke a blood vessel! Secondly, if you look at the odds in the said race, Odessa(1) was at 46/10 & Strong Suit at 15/2; who also broke a blood vessel. In this strategy, a horse breaking its blood vessel is also part of the strategy?

I request Shri Chankya to clarify please. Many Thanks

Mr. ayyarnet,

I agree that  what  works  for  one person  may  not  work  for  other.and  everybody  must  devise  his  own  methodology.  My  handicapping  and  betting strategy  gives  me  a handle  to  bet on  all races  of  the  day and  still  come  out  a  good winner at  the end  of  a  month or  a  season. My  main  centers  are  Mumbai/Pune and  Bangalore/Mysore (monsoon).

Agreed - everyone  does  not  make money  as  it  is  very  difficult but  it is  also true  that  some  of  us  do  win; maybe  5  to  10%.I consider  myself lucky  to  belong  to  that  group because  of  the  strategy I  use. Proof  is  scattered  in  this  forum's tips  thread where  I've  posted  my  selections for  all  races  from 29/12 19  to 8/3/20 for  Mumbai  and  Bangalore  races. Adding  my earning on  12/3/20  tips  posted  on  my  blog  and deducting  -13  units  loss  on  Invitation  day  at  Mysore my  winnings  come  to  45  units for  2 1/2  months. It is  a  decent  earning by  any  standard.

@ IIMBLUE,

where  do  you  go  for  racing - I don't know?. For  your  information I go  to  RWITC. Furthermore,  you  may  enquire; if  you  do  not  belong  to  Mumbai that  many  years  ago  RWITC had started this  practice  of  'eating'  the  favorite at  tote but  stopped  it  after  one or 2 months as  it  failed  miserably because  while, win  collection  was more  than  a  lakh and  place  cllections  were  in  thousands - this idea  did  not  catch  up  the  fancy  of  tote-punters and  the  collections rarely  gone to  3  figures..If  this  was  illegal  how  and  why  RWITC start  it- ask  them?

@ punterbychoice,

Wrong strategy has  failed  in  the  past  and  will  fail  in  future too. The  failure is  of  the  individual  who  designed  it and  not  of  the  system...   

Mr chanakya

 Betting is impulsive it can't be strategized  nor does it have a template. Numerology,occult and any form of clairvoyance doesn't work in racing.people have tried all these with little or no success.whether he is a veteran with years of racing behind him or a novice,what beckons them is the odds which entices them to bet.this is what I have experienced in my long racing career.

@CK

What is this jodi? Do we bet on two horses for that? Isn't that a losing proposition if followed for long? I am told that you have to bet big with the bookmakers to be eligible? How can a normal punter who bets 1K or 2K do that? 

Suggest a betting strategy for small punters like us. Not the undesirable one of having to bet on multiple horses.

Appreciate your response to my first quandry.

Those who advocate betting in all races, and 2 or even 3 horses per race, for winning consistently, are not only fooling others but also themselves.   Such people live in a make-believe world far away from reality.

No racing so no strategy. All strategy failed in past and will fail in future. 

Forget indian racing. Management have no interest so why we punter will think About racing. The day coming when local bookmaker will take betting of international horse racing. 

@ Einstein,

I'll try to explain.

Betting  strategy  is  to  maximise ROI(return  on  investment).

Most  of  the time and  most  of  the experienced punters bet a  uniform  unit  on  their  choices -whether  they win  or  lose. End  of  the  day they  find that  their  ROI  is 'positive' but small. Betting  strategy helps  them  to  'improve' or  increase the  ROI.

on 2/1/20 I posted  my  selections  in  the  tips  threa  of  this  forum. To improve  my  ROI I've  devised  a  method - I call  it  my  betting  strategy; to  bet  on  my  first  choice  or first  2 (jodi) or  all  the  3 choices( I call it -open race).

To enjoy  racing  and  also  to  make  money from  my efforts I normally  bet  on  all  races  of  the  day except those which  are  suffixed  by ? or ???.

To understand  the methodology of  my  betting  you  have  to  go  to  the  thread on  2/1/20. 

R1- one  choice - I won, race  2 - jodi( I  won 4-1). Leaving  race  5 (the  bone  of  contention)  my  ROI from  6 races  was more than  6  units - a good and  reasonable ROI. But  by  betting  with  my 'strategy' - adding  the winnings  of  race  5  it  increased  to  more  than 26 plus units. 

This  is  the benefit  of  a betting  strategy.

@Chanakya Kaushik, 

What do you mean by eating the favourite? 

How it can be an option for a law abiding racegoer? 

For some degenerate punters betting at half tax is a way of life. This practice silently watched by some crook officials has brought the clubs to this pitiable state. 

Explain how the Clubs and Punters have to go about , this idea of "eating the favourite " !

Of course,  some bent owners and trainers are patronising this strategy all the time with the help of cooperative bookies. Afterall,  it is easier to make the lose than make it win.! Without doubt,  it is a cruel joke played on unsuspecting punters.!! Now it appears you want to join them and play games with tax authorities!!!

No. 3 was favorite at 18/10 & second choice 6 was at 20/1 and third choice no.5 was at 10/1.

And this seasoned punter calls it an open race

Lord ... let me have some cool breeze

Shri.Chanakya ji:

What works for one person may not work for others. One must make his own effort to plan a strategy out of his own experience in Racing.

Playing one thing but making money i entirely different thing. Very few people make it in Racing. Most of us do doubt make it for a while and then lose it in one day and come to the starting point again.  You need to control your impulse betting attintude and playing at all Races at all centres etc

Majority of us blame Racing without understanding the concept and managing Racing Program by the Club.

With bst regards to all

Ayyarnet

@CK

I am having trouble understanding your explanations. Can you simplify them further. A bit toughto comprehend for blokes like us.