Dabcing Dynamite,

"Bookies are cheats;  others are saints"!

I am afraid you got it wrong. 

I say "Bookies are cheats".  The City crime Branch, GST, Commercial tax office etc raided on the bookies during Nov, Dec 2019 & Jan 2020.  And I am speaking on that.

There are many other group also cheating in various ways.  You should not expect Raghavan alone to raise hs voice against them.  You could have done that yourself.

ya.  raghavan should not comment on that.  because raghavan knows only that bookies are cheating, everybody else is saint. If you are not conerned with club, then you are also not concerned with bookies.

BTC did that JHOL w.e.f starting of GST (june 20..) will january of next year.

Dancing Dynamite,

Tell the period during which the BTC swallowed the GST without remitting it to the Government.  Such minimum information is absolute necessary when you are expecting a reply.  

The second thing, if the BTC had played mischief, why should you expect Raghavan to comment on that?  You yourself could have posted a letter on that.  Perhaps I also might have posted one or two replies.

Provided I am having some worthwhile reply.  I do not believe in speaking without having any knowledge of the subject.

The point is, the stewards of almost all club are hand in glove with the bookies.  They do not deserve any kind of lenience.  But, they seem to get away with all such dubious actions.  

I am mostly commenting on bookies and two or three punters who claim to have won big in horse races.  That too only on matters where I have strong doubt about the veracity of their claims.  

Raghavan,

Do you know that BTC did not deposit all the tax (GST) that it collected, from punters.  Why have you not blamed BTC for this money gulping?

Buddy,

If you feel DD has given the right reason, then upvote his post.  Matter closed.  Also search any posts from me in other threads and upvote all replies addressed to me which you consider is right..

****

"It is right vs wrong argument".  "People do not bother what I say".  "No one will want to stop me"!  O K.  If no one wants to stop what I want to say, then there should be no replies to my post.  You see in other site and also in this site how many replies YOU have given to my post.   Forget about others.  

I will react to posts which I consider worthwhile.  Some replies will be hard hitting, some agreeing and some disagreeing.  That is entirely my choice.

Dance naked and scream bookies are dealing in 10% please stop them - even  if you do that it wont mattter -was said because -you said 'people want to close your mouth on this issue' in short who will bother what you say -why would anyone want to stop you - its just a case of right vs wrong perception .arguement.

Raghu the tote - on the next page right on top your post ' when will racing commence' D.D says you have sadist mentality - he ha given the right reasons  too , read it .

Kolramsri,

BTC has employed high number of temporary employees.  And, their condition is pathetic.

They get salary (I think around 500+ per day) only if there is live races or IVB.  There are many middle aged employees, married, withj one or two child among those employees. 

The BTC is literally having no obligation towards them in any way if there is no racing.  These employees have not got any help from the BTC.  They are without job for nearly 4 months.  How they are surviving is really a mystery to me.  What you or I can do about that?  God only should help them.

I have not seen any financial statement of the club.  So, it is only my guess that BTC is not having reserves to pay these employees even nominal subsistence (or even interest free loan) of five thousand rupees per month.  

Which, leads me to my pet argument.  If the BTC had been strict in forcing the bookies to strictly collect the club commission & gst as per rules, then the club would have healthy reserve and could have paid 5000 per month as interest free advance to its temporary staff.

*****

I do not think that it will take long time for BTC to develop reliable software to handle online betting.  There are good number of masters in software in reputed companies.  Anyway, will there be racing in near future?  We can only wait and watch.

Dancing Dynamite,

I desire level playing field.  But, I know that bookies will not oblige me.  

What I am saying is bookies should respect/obey Law passed by the Government.  That is all. 

"Bookies as well as punters suffer losses if full tax is implemented".   Let them.  Only because they did not followed the law, the Commercial Tax Department slapped some charges against them.  They are not seen in action for nearly 3 months.  

Anyway, I am blaming only bookies.  Why are you objecting to this.  Are you worried that bookies may turn Harishchandra, Sriramachandra etc on seeing this post?  Be cool.  Bookies will not turn honest overnight to please Raghavan.  

Buddy,

"There will not be even 0.00000001 percent  change".  Then why are you shouting hysterically.  I am vocal/critical not from today.  For the past 8 years I am singing the same song.  If I may borrow words from your pet friend, Chanakya, I am repeating the same thing like a worn out gramophone recorder!  In the same manner, you are also praising the bookies like a worn out gramophone recorder.

"It is a do or die situation in gambling".  

It may be do or die situation to you who bet lakhs.  I never had that much of tension.  Of course, there was relatively less tension, proportionate to my stakes.  

Not only you.  I have seen so many bettors desperately staking very high amount and praying God.  They will be literally like dancing on a burning coal.  I really pity them.  The horse Be-safe, an odds on favorite in invitation cup must have drowned a huge number of punters.  I have seen two bets of 5 lakhs each.  The tax that they paid on that (50k) would have hurt them much more.

You have said in another thread "losing is secondary to getting conned by lower odds than what one can get....getting conned and losing is worse than just losing  even if the amount is same"!

I do not know in what context you penned such a statement.  But, the same is applicable to any bet where the punter bets on UNBEATABLE horse at cramped odds and will be looking sheepish when results are declared.

Anyway, I am happy that I do not touch such horse/s with barge pole.

"If another tote window opens up promissing better returns, you will be in queue in front of that window".    What a brilliant imagination.  Anyway, I know that such a situation does not arise.  So, your theory can never be put to test.

Everything O K.  But can't you maintain decorum, decency while speaking in public site?  What is this  "dance naked"?  

Raghavan. Sometime back all and sundry worried about the fate of BTC  employees at the tote. When online betting materializes will the club retain all of them? Definitely Not. There is one way out for the BTC, they will put the blame on the Govt's insistence to maintain Social Distancing. It is not that easy to develop software in double-quick time, with all the inbuilt protective mechanisms.

Online betting readymade Software available so clubs won't spend any time to find software developers. The moment race is going to start clubs can install readymade Software for online betting. So probably Bsnfalire and Hydrabad Race club must be planning to start by end of this month.

Raghavan,

You want level playing field with punters betting with bookies. its because tote is down and bookies are up. So, why should bookie punter grant you level playing field??  Secondly, not only bookies but punters will also be sufferers, if full tax is implemented/

'they say I should not be so vocal or critical of bookies' says the toteman- really how does it matter if you are vocal or critical will it change anything by even ..00000001 percentage - grow up raghu ...be vocal/crtical dance naked -its just a battle of perception -   its do or die while betting/gambling - if one tote window says we will give better deal then the other windows with no repercussions everyone will Q up there ...including you.

Kolramsri,

The btc has got approval.  It may develop necessary app in about 2 months.  And, then they will accept bets.

What about other turf clubs?  It is too early to think about those clubs.  Perhaps they may also apply for online betting and get the necessary permission.  We do not know.

Now the question comes.  What if the other clubs ask for permission, but the Government is not inclined to grant their request?  Then nobody could do anything.   Then, as you said it will be a local affair.

This virus menace had cut the bookies to size.  Every bookie must be feeling restive because of absolutely no business for the past 116 days.  An unintended, but a big boon to punters.  The punters are used to get beaten black and blue when the racing is on.  A good number among those punters are ready to bet even if some gymkhana races are held at Lucknow, Meerut etc.  But, the coronavirus has kept them away from the race course.  

As on date only certainty is that there will be no races till July 31.  

Hii dear all 

On this topic regarding online betting 

I and others to play online betting in 

Online betting sites .

I prefer every one bet365 is best ApP for online betting for all kind of betting 

Regards 

Race lover 

Best of luck dear all

HP++,

I have a strong fixation about bookies taking bets at 10%.  Perhaps, 90% punters may not like what I said.  I know my objections to the bookies act will sound  funny or irritating to many punters.  They say that I should not be so vocal or critical about that.  

I do not think you are right in bringing the anology of Chinese goods that are sold cheap.  I do not know about the situation now; but it was perfectly legal just one month before also.

"Bookies give value for your money"!   A son in law being generous with the property of mother in law!  Bookies get 10% extra on every bet they collect which helps them pay higher dividend.  Let them collect full tax.  Then there will be level playing field between tote and bookies.

If I am satisfied that the discount given by the bookies will definitely help the punters, then I may stop speaking about that.  A punter may lose the entire bank balance in one month.  With bookies also same thing!. OR they may be able to bet one or two more days!

And, the bookies were trapped by Commercial Law Officers here.  For nearly three months they were not functioning at BNG. 

Of course, I do not know how they deal with if and when online betting becomes operational.  I strongly feel that they will find out a way.  

HT guys seriously concern for online betting..

Its is a sure shot flop thing..(but Just for showoff).I know,we know & club know.. Leave it..

Keep in touch with private bookie..racing would start from mid August

Raghavan. If at all racing starts in Bengaluru, there is oral permission to go online. So all the money will be directed towards BTC. How the other clubs will get benefitted? Then all the clubs will insist on money channeling through them. I find there is no way to share the booty with other clubs. Do you think other clubs will sit like a Zombie, and watch BTC swallowing money all over India? Other clubs will force their respective state governments to take measures to stop the flight of money to Karnataka. The central govt will be forced to give direction, only Karnataka based I.P can reach BTC. So it will be a local affair.

Ayyarnet,

I have not thought that far.  My only concern is the menace of the virus to abate and general betting atmosphere inside the race course is restored.

There will be huge betting throughout the length and breadth of country.  Well.  That is the development which I do not wholly welcome.  I do not want any further addition to the small group who are collectively called "punters".  You say, that online betting has the potential to generate millions of jobs.  I think it is too early to think in those terms.

"crores has been transacted for epsom derby at Bombay"! 

Well.  At Epsom derby, the horses that finished 1,2,3 are all long shots.  Punters at Mumbai would have ended up with a big hole in their pockets!

Raghavan . .bookies are lie Chinese goods ,they give value for money. Principles and value can come later on

Hi all 

I totally agree wih kalmari sir that online betting will die natural death sooner than later

How will the club survive if it forgoes income from gate/stall fees/ canteen rent /parking etc 

Not  many punters would like to bet from home or office 

Not all punters who come to races tell their families that they gamble

Shri. Raghavan ji

Now there are only few Offcourse betting centre as far as I know only Shivaji Nagar in Bangalore. I have visited that centre also at Dubai Plaza.

With the on set of on line betting every stree there will be a betting centre all over the country. On line betting will be providing employment opportunity for millions. All that you need a place or stall with a laptopand internet connection and any Bank Debit card Majority of our punters are not Computer savy Even the Book makers are also may not have sufficient proficiency in computer.  One thing is sure whether Races are there or noBook makersare doing their business as usual of course in underground . I understand crore have been transacted for Epsom in Bombay. Everything is dne in a hush hsh manner we do not the connection.

Thanks to COVID19 but for covid we may not see the on line betting in india

Every thing is good as well as bad

Regards to all

ayyarnet

Raghavan. Online betting, after a few days, will die a natural death. Clubs had to forget gate collection and stall payments from the Bookmakers.No lease money from Canteens. They have to provide free streaming. Will it be possible to run the show depending on  5% commission on bets placed. All those clamoring now will simply disappear after a day or two, having got shocked by the dividends. For Bengaluru punters, it is OK. Madras race club has tie-up with BTC only for J P. For other pools what is the solution? For club-related matters I have only limited knowledge.

So many online betting app in India, , All app providing customer related good service,, this sports have great fans and punters, Ultimately racing sports is digitalised..

HP++,

Yes.  With this 28% gst & 5% club commission, we have to search with magnifying glass for anyone betting 10k & above.  However, those who were betting 500/600 etc earlier were totally betting at tote only.  They will definitely continue.

What if they are not knowing how to work with computer or mobile phone/s?  They have to learn.  And they will learn.

Current day punters, whether in ther 30s or 70s will not find it difficult to learn betting through computer.

Of course, it is only my wish that bookies should not be permitted.  In fact, there were no bookies at BNG for nearly 2 1/2 to 3 months.  People say that racing will not be lively if there are no bookies.  Let those people learn to bet paying full tax.  If not inlined to bet at 33% tax, they can certainly abstain.  

But, of course, I am well aware of one thing.  Bookies will definitely find out a way to carry on their business.

ON LINE BETTING NOD COME FASTER ;  RWITC ON 3RD JULY.

raghavan 

Its really tuff fr online betting to suceed in India with this level of GST and not all race goers are smart phone savvy.Yu tend to expose a lot of personal info in type of betting.Bookie betting will flourish

so just forget it

    Online betting permission approved by Karnataka govt with reference to BTC's letter dated 22nd May,  2020 and the same reference is quoted in their permission letter of dated 2nd July,  2020 .

I guess it starts on August 4th as Mr Cruise is always positive for races to start at its earliest , this wud be a like a sweet gift , I'm also anticipating for online racing to start . 

Good news. Even The Hindu du carried this news in today's Chennai edition.

One advise is there shd be only Tote betting and not bookies allowed to run online betting. Secondly winning amount shd be transferd to account and not clubbed with betting.

HP++,

"BTC has to notify this in their official web site...else the entre news may be proved bogus".

Well.  As far as I can see, there is no mention about online betting in the BTC site till date.   The BTC may take its own sweet time for that.

Perhaps, they may not consider it worthwhile to communicate this news in their website till the actual beginning of the races.

Buddy, Kolramsri

Youngsters nowadays are either glued to their mobile phone or computer.  What they are browsing, viewing is always a mystery to me.  

If they are caught up in the dragnet of race betting, that shall be a very very serious development.  All along, I was highly appreciative of youngsters because they remained totally disinterested about races.  But, will they remain in the same mode even after the club introduce this  online betting?  I only hope that my worries are misplaced.

Take for eg, Japan.  That is the country with population less than 1/10th of India's population.  But, their betting volume?  Per race 20 billion yen (or 1,400 cr rupees) is wagered.  In India, the sales at tote per race from all centers do not add up to even 2 crores!

News item in HINDU 4/7/20:  Government approves online betting at BTC.

The proposal was sent 2 years earlier and the approval came now.  Perhaps, if there was no Coronavirus menace, the  Government would not have taken any decision on the proposal.

The Club will develop a mobile application where punters can place their bets and receive dividend through a digital wallet.

The senior steward at BTC, Harimohan Naidu said the app will be ready in another two months.  Once it is ready, BTC will resume races without spectators, but with onlne betting.

With online betting, a racing enthusiast sitting anywhere can place bets on races we conduct.  Ths will naturally expand our customer base tremendously, increase our  turnover and also revenue to the Government.

According to BTC sources, its turnover dropped from over 1900 crores in 2016-17 to nearly 750 crores in 2019-20.

Before introduction of GST, for each race, it had a turnover  in the range of one crore...this has fallen by over 40%.

Betting during races meant thousands gathering in one place, which we will not be able to get back in near future, till a vaccine is found.

So far, so good.  

Now, the thoughts of a doubting Thomas.  

How many punters will bet through online by paying 33% tax?  The initial excitement, that may last one month,  may get a big revenue.  Soon, the punters will be disillusioned and the turnover will be slowly reduced.

Certainly, punters who were actually betting 2k, 3k, 5k etc will no doubt continue to bet coughing up 33%.  But, whether the same thng can be said about those who bet 10k, 20k, peti, 5 lakhs etc?   

So, the question that comes up is whether bookies also will be permitted to run the business.  Most probably not.  And, this is a welcome development.  

People are nowadays speaking stridently about GST to be reduced so that the Government will get a higher share of revenue.  What the Government decide is not known.  But, it is a bit far fetched to nurse any hope of reduced GST.  

So the punters for now, can sleep peacefully for another two months.  If & when races are resumed, and if & when online betting is introduced, the punters can definitely place their bets online.  There are many countries where the betting is onlne and no bookies are permitted.  If, in India also the same rule is applied, then it will definitely bring in some credibility & respectability to the races.

Where will the finance/stake money -money to maintain the track come from- finance has to be sorted -  tote not on job -bookies rent - eateries rent -gate money etc ........have to generate all that money.

Dear all

Todays TOI carries news on btc online betting .so one thing is clear it is not fake.

Secondly even if btc comes out with application successfully .it  shouldnshould give way for dubious transactions by select people and also to hackers and other similar sites as many will be first time users of smart phones the betting on line should close atleast 10mins before each race so that in case of serve break down or any error on both sides can be corrected.

Since money transaction involved there will many agents like online agents who may take the booking and may lead everyone young or old with knowledge or without knowledge to give a try in this industry irrespective of gender.

There must be admission SOPS along with riders

So the racing can be enjoyed as a sport and also revenue generator for a serious punter

And a permanent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, drain

https://www.telegraphindia.com/sports/online-betting-nod-to-btc-from-karnataka-govt/cid/1785233

Buddy. Youngsters are wiser now.  Difficult to drag them into Gambling.

Good, Bars will be filled during race times

It's on paper  in reality  it's very tough task to btc because there no good  support inside club 

Financial position is not upto mark 

Club members should work  unitedly 

To save horse racing 

Good luck

This is good news for people in the game - but young ,new blood will enter who otherwise would not have indulged - that would be bad/sad.

Hello folks,

I am informef from my sources that racing at Bangalore is likely to start  on Independence day - 15th of August.

regds,
Cruise

BTC shud confirm this on their website or else its pure speculation

Punters seem to be on top of the worid on hearing the good news which they are very badly awaited all these days. Let it not turn out to be a wild goose chase .

All the best.

Sounds great...till now we becoming paupers by visiting totes and bookies..Now while sitiing at  whereever we want...

Sharmaji   thanks for the good news.

Yes u r right sir, congrats to btc admin and chairman

Everyone has a smile on there face like the first rain ????.. 

Let's hope to start it ASAP... 

It very difficult to play in tote or race course so pls sir u make things in on line only thanks banglore

I also saw this news in you tube by turf tracker. He has expressed his doubts over authenticity of the letter. As per the list of officials of finance department,Karnataka, the official is one of the Undersecretary in the finance department.Let us see the modalities and wait.

Very good news

I would not want to count the chicken before they hatch. This is only an 'in principle' approval. from my experience at dealing with Govt it means very little. At the same time, I do not want to sound pessimistic.

If and when they convert it to a proper approval, they will surely impose conditions. I cannot see, recognising, that the virus is still peaking(with over 5 lacs+ cases), any govt of the day allowing any spectator. Thus closed door. Still it will be worthwhile.

May the Good Lord smile on us once again!

Best

Good News 

STEPPING STONE..

Shri. Sharma ji

Thanks forvthe Good News

Regards

ayyarnet

It is confirmed that btc has been permitted by the government to conduct on line betting

Congrats team btc

Wow very good news sir . Let's hope everything will happen as soon as possible . Waiting to start race for entertainment and pease ..

Yes

It is true....

Very good news 

Really it is a very great news so still the hopes r alive