@ITR, I am sure that Rastafarian belongs to Hyderabad race course only. It might have won at Nilgiri race course also.Due to my job commitments I used to go to Malakpet only on sundays in the afternoon .  Regularly I used to take a chance on it .If I am not wrong it was with  trainers, either at  D M  Hill or  at D Thomson. If i am wrong please correct me. I will be happy.

@ ITR: Thanks for the info. Old memories sometimes gets supplanted by newer Info.

Either it is Big Deal who won a staying trip in a two horse race or it was Red Chieftan who lost a two horse race . Or it could be a many horse race where Red Faltered or Big Deal triumphed. Memories can't be relied upon.

Thanks for keeping records and searching through them painstakingly for our clarity. 

Yeoman service indeed. Thanks.

@ Chase

     Making good one earlier omission. Big Deal did win twice more at Guindy as a three year-old. (Had not checked that year earlier wrongly assuming him to be Hyderabad horse). Both were sprints and had more than just two runners.

@ Aravind

      RASTAFARIAN won the Nilgiris Derby, Gr.1. In the Nilgiris Colts' Trial Stakes, Gr.3, he lost to Beat The Clock. You are right; the favourite Beau Geste had some testicle problem in that race.

@ Chase

     As far as I could check, Big Deal won only one race at Guindy. That was in 1982 when he won the Guindy Gold Cup, Gr.3 over a mile beating Mossy Banks. There were ten runners in the race and the favourite, MAM's Blue Ice (Jagdish), was third.

    Records are infallible but senior citizens with troubled eye sight are not ! You have to make allowances for that.

Thanks Indian Turf Reccird for giving us details abt Big Deal and Crackerjack.

Infact when it won I played once, that time it was ridden by Tyrell, trained by his father. Thanks fir bringing back those sweet memories. 

One more info I would like to ask is that someone written that Rastafarian won in Hydrabad. But to my knowledge it won Nilgiris Colts trial stakes. In that race Beaugest fav but list bcoz some problem in its testickes during the race.

Pl clarify.

Hello folks,

A small correction: Please read the name of the rider as Abdul Waheed in my previous posting.

regds,
Cruise

@ITR: Thanks for the clarifications. Memories are fallible  Records are not. 

Big Deal won a two horse race in Chennai if I remember correct. The other one was the favourite , MAM horse ridden by Jagdish. Fuzzy Memory.

One ordinary horse which I fancied  last in bangalore is Nagarjuna-(lucifer sam-dama/something) He caught on my eyes at 2014 at his fourth outing, truthfully I am quiet lucky with Pradeep's yards if I keenely observed it.

Planned to follow it , but due to duty reasons a no of times in the next 16 outings not seen him in action.I found his movement at 10 th outing and was sure it will hit nearby day, but unfortunately his first win day I am at busy work, but kept him follows by playing only 600 each way, by my luck it came one win one shp and one place after that stopped following him.But still it is a worthful horse who possess good stamina.

     Normally if fancied one horse will continue to observe and play it till 16 outings, the investment will come back in that term .This concept is applicable for ordinary horses running in lower classes but selecting them we need to study and observe their improvement and one or two track works and pedigree 

Some details of some horses being discussed.

BIG DEAL (ch c 1978 Never Never - Silent Screen)

     Could not find a clash between Big Deal and Red Chieftan. It is also unlikely because Red Chieftan retired from racing in 1981 when Big Deal was a 3YO. Big Deal did run in the two-runner Golconda St. Leger but was beaten by Corner-ridden Almanac.

     Young Tipu did beat Red Chieftan in Bangalore but I think it worth adding that he was in receipt of 17.5 kgs. Weight matters when a push becomes a shove.

     Silent Screen, the dam of Big Deal, was owned by Mr. G. Thambuswamy. At stud, her ownership was M/s G Thambuswamy & H. Thambuswamy and Doaba Stud. Big Deal won Golconda Derby in ownership of M/s. H. Thambuswamy & J. Tyrrell and Mrs. K. Thambuswamy. He then trained by M.B. Mangalorkar. His last win was in the colours of Mr. N. Adil Mirza when he was saddled by S. Abbas. Mr. Mirza retired Big Deal to his Mohammed Stud as a stallion.

CRACKERJACK (b g 1974 Satinello - Rewcovery)

     Crackerjack had a long racing innings of 10 years during which he raced 108 times and won 16 races. He was owned almost throughout his career by M/s. V. Chidambaram, VR Sukumaran, VR Rajkumar and Mr. C.S. Poonawalla. Mr. Poonawalla had dropped out in later stages of his career.

     Crackerjack was intitially trained by Maj E. Fownes; then by J. Tyrrell; then by SJK Irani. His last win came from Dominic's yard. He did not win in his final year so his owner and trainer is not on record. Jockeys who won on him are D. Tyrrell (6 wins), Murtagh (3 wins), McKeown (2 wins), S. Marshall (2 wins), J. Smith, Young and Nasir Beg.

    There many "crackers" after Crackerjack but only one Crackerjack. This later Crackerjack (b g 2004 Royal Gladiator - Maxim's) won three races.  

Cruise. I don't think, you can get it confirmed by the owner of Big Deal and Silent Screen.

Hello Aravind,

You're right. Crackerjack was trained by S.K. Habib Khan. He quit racing around that time and the horse was shifted to his younger brother Hidayat Khan's care.

The possibility of an earlier horse named as Crackerjack cannot be discounted  though, as it is quite common.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Kolramsri,

I shall have a confirmation once the covid-19 pandemic recedes. I'll speak to Thambuswamy and confirm.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Aravind,

The correct name is Jacqueline,

regds,
Cruise

Hello Chase & Aravind,

The same happened to Jagdish, astride Red Chieftain, at Bangalore. Red Chieftain was conceding chunks of weight to Young Tipu.

Jockey S. Waheed, astride Young Tipu, hit the front soon after the start and came into the straight a few lengths clear of the field. Jagdish did try his best but could only narrow down the lead but couldn't pass Young Tipu. He was outfoxed by S.Waheed.

For those unaware, S.Waheed was killed in an air crash when the Airbus flight while landing made contact with boundary of the golf course adjoining the airport.

regds,
Cruise

Kalamsari Sir

It was Crackjack trained by Tyrell and ridden by his son J Tyrell. Crackerjack is different horse I think so. Bcoz I knew this Tyrell trained horse and I played once.

Cruise. Regarding Big Deal

Never Never out of Silent Screen 1978 Foal.

 I think owned by Thambusamy. ( owner of Dam also)

It won 1981 Golconda 2000 guineas and 1982 Golconda Derby. These 2 are the classics won by him.

Hello Arabind,

That horse is Jaequeline!

regds,
Cruise

@Arvind: your last horse mentione ," Big Deal" brought forth it's clash with RedChieftan  in a two horse race ( was it At Leger?). Red Chieftan was a classic horse , matching strides with the likes of Own Opinion , Royal Teen etc. He was the odds on favourite , expected to complete the formality of just striding out to victory. 

Big Deal  took a long lead. Jagdish on Red Chieftan was not worried. R.Corner on Big Deal  have him a breather around the half way mark and the lead shortened. Red was creeping closer. Then Corner took Big Deal with another spurt and it started away to a lead of over 10 lengths . Still Jagdish was not worried. When Big Deal was approaching the final bend , Red was alerted and he came flying. But Big Deal was spurting away strongly and Red just could not catch him .

A strategic start to finish attempt . An over confident Jagdish. 

One can not take anything for granted in a big race. 

A memorable race. Big Deal. Yes.

Anilxk,

According to me, gambler hides in the name of horse lover.

@ cruise 

some people will be remembered even if we met them few minutes.

   Another horse not single but dual horse was from hyderabad. LDsilva trained Nicaud and Dhariwal trained Donegal. They fight each other every time in middle distances and beat each other. Those days only commentary was available from hyd. But the commentator some times cyrus madan also beautifully visualised their fights every time.I used to back nicaud every time more than donegal only because of  dam name of donegal(dowsing-fox steep). Both are quality horses and kept in ship shape by trainers as prestige trophies.

       and finally genius boy who was in turf upto 10 years if iam correct  , it is a horse with brilliant intial speed , may be totally un matchable but decelarate from 600 m and looks like walking at finish. It is a game place horse in short distances, when ever he wears hood touched place .I even made a sticker on my two wheeler on that name.

Hello ITR,

Your timely response is appreciated.
Thank you

regds,
Cruise

Hello Anilxk,

I recall the gentle Md.A.Abbas. He was very down to earth and mingled around freely. I liked his style of smoking with the cigarette held between rhe middle finger and ring finger. He would take a deep drag which was similar to one smoking grass using a chillum.

May his good soul rest in peace!

regds,
Cruise

Another Bangalore horse which I fancied much was bank balance trained and owned by Md Abbas, incidentally few times I met him at bar and at course near paddock parade at btc, and he being very friendly always advised to gave up racing at 1996. He told me that you are just 23 and possessed good accademic credentials, why spoiling life, but eventhough I never asked suggestions or tips from him. He also lost a lot in betting.

One day I met him at a bar near majestic he was so happy that he is trying his best with out gambling and bought a horse with a nice name bankbalance. The name fascinated me it is a do or die situation for him after many owners withdrawer horses from his stable.

As usual I attend morning work out and found that this colt is fitted with all attachments for trial , he keep training him at the last part of winter and sharpened him with mockrace. During summer at the second day got acceptance and run as firm favourite on tote, won easily, His running is so erratic in the next three outings he used high heels and it continuously won and became the horse of the season . A very ordinary horse prepared well used to correct minute problems by changing attachments , I played all times at Bangalore and not played at Mysore( Mysore is so un lucky) to me.

First race hebused blinkers

Second race hebused visor and bit

Third hevadded tougue strap... beautifully crafted all wins...

A punter means ,definitely will be horse lover.day after day his liking and love will develop towards horses.(If initially he doesn’t have much) . A punter now and then if don’t gamble ,where will be the excitement  and anxious moments for him. You see regularly punters crying and shouting when their horse dashing at final stages.

I enjoy the racing. I love horses.    Apart the horses mentionedby Aravindji I liked Chaitanya chakram, Jaqueline, and one class horse, named Rastafarian (a grey horse, at Malak pet ,in 80s) who used come out suddenly from the bunch in the last 30,40 meters at the  winning post. own opinion, Red chieften, star superior,Great   Adjudicate etc are the horses never a horse lover/punter can forget. When such horses are running also a punter will gamble now and then.that is horse racing.

A horse lover will be gambler now and then.

Crackerjack trained by Maj.E.Fownes, mostly ridden by Sinclair Marshal.

@ Cruise_B'lore

PUNE,  13 Aug 1995

CASTROL TURF CLUB TROPHY, Gr.2, 1400 m., 4YO+

1.  NELSON RIVER (5/1) 41.5 carr 42.0 S. Jadhav

2.  Dancing Lord (10/1) 47.5 C. Rajendra

3.  Snowstorm (13/4 fav) 56.5 R. Corner  

4. Dancing Memories (15/1) 46.0 R. Pandey

18 ran. Shd, 3/4, 3/4. Time: 1:24:8 (Record)

Tote Dividends: W 27 Pl 11, 17, 9 Forecast: 497 Quinella: 462Tanala: 952 and 337

Owned by Mr. Harrish Mehra and Mrs. Shabana R. Khan

Trained by Rehanullah Khan

Some horses really look the part of being a solid runner/winner and you do remember them for defying the handicaap/winning but  that's it - main thing is your own betting/purse - that's all that matters -  The horses running in developed countries look better more athletic -but we or almost all don't even think of watching them - The fact is money and time given to betting is all that matters - unless you are retired don't know what else to do - so enter the course bet small and enjoy the ambiance -open area , athletic horses.

Horse lover or a gambler what's the difference.

Spot on Mr.Sinndaar, loved it....

am one helava horse ???? race lover...

Horse lovers wud love to watch Continual (unfortunately short lived -but looked beautiful) Besafe, SirCecil, War Hammer, Crackerjack (DM Tyrell trained) Royal Tern, Squanderer, Angelique ( I foregt this horse correct name -trained by Shroff- beaten once by Becket- she was looking gracious in paddock) Big deal( this horse was dark black- jockey R Corner English white combination looked fantastic in paddock) and few horses I loved and liked to watch.

    Interesting post and explained nicely by many.  Sanndaar explained in simple and convincing way.  Expecting many more such topics. Good luck. 

The hard fact is to love a horse or a pet or a girl you need "one" your own. A punter is always remain punter, cannot be a horselover.  If the Government BAN BETTING, no punter will go to horse racing.  All these so called horselovers will vanish from gambling scene.   

Hello Anilxk,

That was a fantastic observation. The 1997 Indian derby was definitely among the best.
So was War Hammer's victory in this year's Indian derby. The field had 7 derby winners competing.

Your joy was my tragedy. This refers to Nelson River.
Let me tell you why!

On the day the above race was run I was in urgent of some cash. I looked through the card and selected Dancing Lord. I backed 5100 tickets at the tote ( Rs 1000/- ). The tote was showing Rs 90/- at the start of race and that amount, if successful, would have taken care of  requirement.

I felt I had the money in my pocket when Dancing Lord was in the lead but Nelson River put paid to my hopes by coming and getting the better of my horse in a close finish. Nelson River carried feather-weight of 44kg ( Rwitc website says it as 42 kg ).. I would request ITR to check the Fonn's record book.

regds,
Cruise

Hello Sinndaar,

Very well said. I would say perfectly worded.

regds,
Cruise

In horse racing majority of the punters are gamblers who want to make fast buck . So they don't have much knowledege of racing nor they want to gain it . They know only the numbers , race No 4 - 7 No horse , race no 5 - 2 No horse etc , they are  least bothered by the class , handicap ,, distance , graded/ classic race ,going , timing , trainer , owner , pedigree etc , at the most they know few top class jockeys to be followed. When  a horse wins they will shout only the horse number because they dont know the horse .For them all lost horses are pulled and all winner are champions. They rely on Khabar , tips  and soley by luck to win .They bet heavily and illogically and at the end of the day they don't remember any except for profit or loss.

 A horse race lover is an individal  bitten by the passion of horse racing. He tries to gain all knowledge of horse racing , does his own study , picks his own winners , follows his favourite trainers , jockeys , owners and horses. Has his own patten of betting , limits his bets , does not rely on hearsay and has immense patience ..For him his profit is less and losses are also less. For him the victory of his own selected/ favourite  horse  sends him to cloud nine  and the immense pleasure  gained is the passion that makes the man attend racecoure for decades or lifelong .

In short a gambler is a reckless punter and a race lover is a prudent punter who enjoys the lifelong pleasure of racing at little cost..

The main  difference between gambling and horse racing lover is two faces of one coin nothing is  certain one should  enjoy the sport nothing but when u pay and watch  movies what we can get at the  end if movie is good our paid amount is satisfied if the movie is bad our paid amount is waste  same  formula in raceing if we win we enjoy if we lose we feel  raceing is bad

We have to  control our mind

Regards 

@ Arvind

@ raghavan

I tried to explain the state of change from horse lover to gambler.

Both are extremely at different angles, with out betting we can fancy and love horses, like that we fancied Maradona and Bebeto, etc. When we are fancying / following a particular horse the chance of loss is minimal because we are not investing on any other one. But the problem is the range of competition , preparation and class is growing down wards from day to day. I can explain an example

One of the best crop of horses , can be say once in a millenium is competed in 1997 Indian derby

Indictment

amazing grey

ministerial

crown treasure

secret star

salute her

arabian rose

san lorenzo,jaguar, and snow storm. I fancied snow storm and ministerial , out of that ministerial won invitation cup in the biggest photo finish happened in Indian turf history and returned my investments, but snow storm retired after derby I felt very worried that never got my investments on him even though backed from 3 years. But he came back fro stud and campaiged in 98 summer bangalore, being an enthusiatic horse lover I stayed at city hotel for watching his work out and decided to invest equal amount of all cumulative investment on him, Mrs Silva (Trained by Ghatala)ride him beautifully defeating Amazing grey..I  done so then  because I am just a fan of racing then, but today not- like all gamblers lost patience and assessment skills .

Another mediocre horse fancied is Nelson River trained by Rehmanullah Khan , he was always running late and running in middle distance, one day accepted him on 1000 m at Pune, that day I am at Pune for work related visit, just gone to course and observed that he looks like a cheetah, just backed him for win and covered all losses on that year(paid 723 at tote). A fan will remember all the changes happened to a horse but a gambler not, SO FANCY RACING LIKE A FAN,,DO NOT APPROACH LIKE A GAMBLER..

Difference between a Gambler and a Player?

Gamblers are emotional  They are swayed by many factors. They are not consistent. They don't do the hard work if analysis. They are not selective and they often are not clear about what they do. They are , in the betting ring, possessed , excited.

Players are cool, may be a little more cautious, , do the hardwork of analysis, know their own strengths and weakness, open minded, never get carried away. They choose horses. They select races. They have impulse control. They collate all the information including the fluctuations of bookies odds and tote trends, and decide firmly to bet or not . Many times they they bet only on one or two races. Sometimes they don't bet at all , just watching the races. They learn from the losses. They Alyse post race. They just don't get carried away by the excitement of the betting ring's  electric atmosphere.

Are you a Gambler or a Player.?

Players know that they can't win in all races. They know when to bet. They are not greedy. They value their money. They take calculated risks. They don't get excited by big wins or dejected by big losses.

Are you a Gambler or a Player?

HP++

Prove f  you  can...

At last some one like you opened up reality in Racing. It was pure Race of Skill untill 70s and middle of 80s. Horse owners /trainers really put their hard works to bring out best if from their stables. Winning races those time fonsidered to be highly prestigious by the Owners. No thought of pulling. 

I love Horses. It's gigantic strides, power of speed, paddock look when Trainers spend good time to trim the horses. Sound of hooves gives me a rethymatic heart beat.

I am in racing last 45 yrs not earned much but not list much coz my betting wud be small can't offer to invest big amount.whatever available on hand everyday during racing I will bet. Nobody wud extend lian to me coz they know Iam a punter. Also my policy is why shd borrow loan?

Finally I enjoy racing, horses, Race Courses, jacket colours of Jockeys (gold brown belt,white with V, ) I will visit race forever in my life time.

Sir, you failed miserably for the last 51 years. Still trying to make some money on horse racing.  SAD.

Best of luck.

no one wins in racing .

Anilxx,

Horses to me were just like any other animals.  No special love towards them.  But, I feel some kind of a pty when I read this are that horse is put to sleep.

In races if you are shrewdest, you will win at the maximum 1/3rd of your bets.  But, normal strike rate of many punters is between 20% to 25%.

But, horses have a magnetc pull.  Presently the punters are so desperate that they are ready to bet even if some gymkhana races are held at Lucknow/Meerut etc.  

If you are in loss, the best approach is to quit race betting.  If that is not possible for whatever reasons, you can at least show your brilliance in cutting the losses. 

Some say that one should treat the race betting as some sort of entertainment.  And a small loss should be accepted without any murmur.  O K if it was a small loss.  But, majority of punters are in high debts that they have incurred to fund racing habit,  Just ensure that you do not borrow to join their circle.  

Of course, in this site you will come across some crackpots who calim to be winners.  Do not give credence to their claims.

Thank you very much for the open mail on your racing experience. I have no hesitation to state that I am a racing enthusiast who tried to make money but failed utterly for the last 51 years. Now what I would request you is for the information on online racing where and how one can place bets. As I am interested atleast to spend my time and try to make some money legally, the information would be very useful to me. Thanks and regardz.