@ Dancing Dynamite : Why should you challenge me or why should I take your challenge seriously? Tomorrow you will say that if I move the apex court for a review against conducting races, you will come with a tonsured head (it's altogether a different story that already your head has been tonsured in the race course) but why I should pay heed to that? What I want you to understand is everyone has an equal right to expression here and you just can't suppress it with your 'ugly' misinterpretations. That's all. When you keep chasing my shadow, mind it that I have every right to 'spit' at you. Got it?

@SSPP

I challenge you that you will never go to supreme court.  Its just a gimmick to show your hatred towards racing.  I dont mind that you hate racing, its absolutely your personal choice.  But you should not spread hatred. 

By the way, dont you know that racing is conducted by bookies and punters, at half tax.  Why dont you complaint that to the police.  I bet, you cant, because you are just pen and paper on indiarace.com.  Fattu..

@ Dancing Dynamite : You really don't know what kind of an accusation to make and every time you get trapped like this. What to do? Why talk about 'Bharat Ratna' when you may not be in a position to afford even a cup of tea? If I wish to go to Supreme Court, why should you have any problem? Please keep raising concrete issues that are worthy enough to be countered. You sound too low. Sorry to say this.

u paid full tax @ 2500 for 10k bet??  I will recommend your name for bharat ratna.  And what about your action plan on going to supreme court for stopping racing altogether.  If you wish, i can recommend you a decent lawyer, but dont know whether you will be able to afford its' fee.........

@ M P Reddy. ,

It is my pure guess. But what might have happened is, 

As per tote rules,  the winning tickets have to be encashed with in eight days. Since you couldn't encash the tickets within the stipulated time,  they asked you to fill up a  (single) form,  which they considered as a single ticket. I have no doubt their interpretation is wrong and it is handiwork of some overjealous  officials. 

@IIMBLUE,  I go to race course for entertainment and excitement.Weekly one day or two days only I attend  IV  tote betting center at Asrao  nagar (Hyderabad). Some main races,classics are exceptional at any center if possible. Other times I will be busy with my institution and personal works.

Generally , I encash all my winning tickets after the last race. Very frequently my encashment amount will be in between  20K  to  30K and some times 50K also.  But by that time of last race my investment will be 20k to 30k. Hence the gain or loss will be very marginal. Some days I loose all the money that I have taken also.on the whole I am looser.

IIMBLUE ji,  one day due to some urgent work I left the race course immediately after the last race without encashing my winning tickets . This happened some 6 to7 years back. For two weeks I was busy.I know my tickets can be encashed At Malakpet only. I went their. Filled some forms given to me . When checked, the amount to be paid to came about 14 K. The tickets were of win,place , forecast and quenelles also from different races. EVEN THEN THEY HAVE DEDUCTED   T D S  from my wing amount. My explanations and protests doesn’t work out. Simply thy said today your winning amount is more then 10K . So you come under T D S . They said they are following our  Taxation rules.they are helpless.

I  wonder ,  IIMBLUE ji , if Paytm also calculates same way what will be the fate of our racing .  You told as ,Paytm will pay  winning amount  immediately after the race  no such problem will arise. Then it’s well and good.  Let us hope so.

,

@ Dancing Dynamite : For your information, almost 99% of my bets were only on Tote, be it in Bengaluru, Mysuru, Hyderabad or even Mumbai. That was why I had so many friends (even now they call me occasionally). While I started to learn racing from Chennai as a reporter, during those beginning days I used to play either in Tote or card with bookies. Even for the rs.10,000 roll bet that I placed with a bookie, I paid rs 2,500 as tax as per rule. Without trying to get to know the truth from me, what is the meaning in your 'barking'? To your question whether I have balls or something else, that is something I can show you only in private.

@ M P Reddy ,

Your interpretation is that,  if a punter s winning amount exceeds more than rs 10,000 from first race to last race,  even from different pools  ,TDS ie : 30% will be deducted from his winning amount. 

      I don't think that is right interpretation because payment is released after every race and not at the end of the day. 

SECTION 194 BB FOR DEDUCTION OF T. D. S.  STATES AS UNDER 

     Any person,  who is responsible for paying to any person any income by way of winnings from any HORSE RACE  an amount exceeding Rs 10,000 shall deduct income tax at the rates prevalent  for that year. 

Kindly note the term "ANY HORSE RACE  ". I think each race and each pool will have to be treated differently and cannot be aggregated. 

@Ayyarnet, Since you are so desperate, let me explain how it is done. Its totally illegal and you play under some other account and the money won or loss is on cash basis. Plus they charge some % commission while receiving and taking money.

Why all race clubs are ready to race without any corresponding income?? They also know that the commission they will draw for online betting is only a pittance.  But then also they are raring to go???????

It is clear that the members are itching to either bet or take bet and promote illegal gambling.

And SSPP, dont you know that bookies take illegal bet at half tax.  You are also a party of this, though in past.  You should go and surrender yourself to police and also be a witness to all these illegal activites.  Do you have balls, or you are a just a pen and paper??

@M P Reddy, 

Paytm being an Indian App will have to be compliant with all taxation laws. RWITC being an responsible institution will have the onus on tax compliance .I am sure the tie-up will have considered all these matters threadbare. 

What impressed me was the ease with which RWITC solved KYC matters in one stroke. 

@IIMBLUe.   As U  said if  Paytm takes the responsibility of payments of punters,it’s well and good.    

Will the  Paytm  won’t  take in to account the Indian tax system ? I am sorry . I couldn’t follow the benefits of its involvement,for punters in respect of taxation.

If it accounts Indian tax system it’s good only those punters playing with in Rs 1000/- per day. If no tax , well and good for all punters .

Many times I have requested our friends indulging in on line betting. 

How do they bet and receive winning amount in INDIA. I am a small exporter whenever I receive remittances from abroad I have to give proper justification note purpose of remittance etc to my Banker. Then only I get credit.

So far I havesen any posting conveying their experience. We only hear unbeleivable stories havng made million in on line betting.

I do not know whether on line betting is possible with our DEBIT CARD 

on CREDIT CARD is a must for on line betting.

I will appreciate those who are already betting on line bettin please explain the true facts to us so that we can also join

Regards

Ayyarnet

@ M P Reddy, 

RWITC has done a very smart thing by tieing up with Paytm. In one stroke,  it will take care of KYC related and Bank related problems. Rest is the matter of detail. 

Friends, it is little early to think of on line betting in India. Of course racing clubs are thinking about this more seriously than us. With 28% GST + club’s commotions and 30% TDS on  winning Rs 10000/- etc..etc..who place bets on on-line . If played, small punters may do it , provide that they complete all the formalities such as bank particulars,Aadhar,pan card and bank balance etc. 

 An important information I would like to pass at this juncture. If a punter’s  winning amount exceeds more than Rs 10,000/-  from first race to last race,even from different pools, TDS ie 30% will be deducted from his winning amount. Which punter will agree for all these conditions and go for on-line betting.

Hence on-line betting, with prevailing TAX rules will be UTTERLY  failure in India. 

I have glimpse of hope that , the Government  may alter the present tax rates of GST and  TDS slab level to get more revenue from races , even through on-line betting. Due to this we can attract punters from other countries also.(at least for classics and main events)

Presently it is totally illegal but since there are bigger fish to fry the ED ignores it as it is in few lakhs only,

IPL  draws rs 300 cores in delhi only, yet no one  touches such bookies. Sep start of IPL   will see many horse racing bookies switch over  to this form  as gamblers are waiting in the   wing to bet Bookies zare out of horse racing legally till end of the yesr

Do betting sites enjoy legal sanctity?

NO.

It is illegal to bet online as on date.  But, there are some people who are betting through whatsapp.  

Of course, Government has given permission to turf clubs to bet online.  So it is safe to presume that online betting will be legalised in due course.

@ Venkat : You are quite right that if the government comes forward to make online betting legal, it will be in place. However, I think for that to happen, and that too in a country like ours, it may take little more time...maybe another six months? Still, I will be glad if that happens as that will ring the 'death' bell for the bookies everywhere. Alongside making online betting legal, if the government also introduces very strict measures against illegal bookmakers, something like 'life imprisonment', you can see how the entire scenario changes. What makes me feel the happiest, of course, is the thought that ordinary people, who are finding it difficult to meet both ends, will no more be found very active online.

@ Ashok Kumar : Do you think that there will be charm doing business with bookmakers? I don't think so. They are the people who have spoiled the industry right from the beginning. The punters have been at the losing side all through their lives. As you had said, it's true that no other sport can be compared with horse racing and that is why we don't get to see a leading trainer or jockey getting the kind of social recognition a Tendulkar or Leander Paes gets? In how many social gatherings, you can go and claim that you bet on horses, please tell me. 

@ Buddy : It seems that you had made a lot of money during your 'heyday'? However, do you feel that you can maintain a similar trend if pressed into service today?

@ S C Sharma : Certainly, the moment I come across any such information, I will bring it to the attention of law enforcement sleuths. As a human rights activist, I do engage in unearthing many illegal and anti-social activities in Kerala. I am of the firm view that once bookmakers are shown the door, things will soon become normal and race-courses in India will begin to function like the ones we get to see in Hong Kong, Australia and elsewhere.

@ Lawyer : Sorry to say that I have never come across such a nonsensical question in my entire life. That it comes from a 'lawyer' is what has surprised me the most?     

Buddy,

Why are you praise yourself?

Everyone on this globe, heaven & netherworld know that  you have won several trillions by betting on races.  Also, you have ignored the potential to earn extra millions by consciously refusing to charge for your tips.

But, we would like to hear from horsetalk members mainly things that are relevant to the topic.  And, what one is in the PRESENT times.  Not what he was in the PAST or not what he hopes to be in FUTURE.

Your entire cash balance was completely snatched by the bookies, and forced you to retire from betting.  Of course, we know that even after retirement, you were betting 3k, 6k, 8k, 10k etc for fun.  You speak about your current day bets, profits or loss thereon, provided that is relevant to the topic.  Avoid crowing about your heroics in the zamana. 

First you need to answer whether you have the legal sanctity to ask this question  now that you are no longer a punter.

How difficult it is to understand? What you see on a tote on a TV, exactly will appear on a website/your phone with an option for you to pay via banks and with so many other options such as paytm and others.  (whatapp is also coming with a money feature) for you to pay them with a fee to wager on your favorite horse(s) Mine is/was/always Jacqueline:)

Ashok Kumar I totally crnt per cent agree with you bro n ur comments

Say no to ONLINE betting bro

 SSPP:    If it is your apprehension that nothing can be said more but if you have any concrete information on betting sites illegal activities than as a responsible citizen you can pass the same to law ensuring agencies under intimation to race clubs.
    During this month only I posted a article on 10th July in Horsetalk on evasion of taxes in which illegal bettings also covered and highlighted by me but despite knowledge about these things to all race clubs and other authorities no stricter action came forward in the past. At present activities are at stand still. But  they  are not able to curb this and such things are going on under the very nose of race clubs. The  betting in 10 percent tax  is the live example which suits both to the bookies and to the punters and seen very much in practice .  This is also not legal but is in practice.
     Another good example  Lodha Committee on cricket  long back suggested the bettings on cricket matches  should be legalised where the quantum of bettings is in lakhs and more, but no decision is taken by the government despite  SC forwarded this matter to govt to take a final decision.
     I think now the time has come at least for horse race bettings with the proposed online legal betting system of race clubs. Yesterday I was also informed that Mysore race club got ready its online betting app and conducted its trial too but success and viability details are not released. Other race clubs are also  working hard for online betting apps  to  get ready soon to enhance and boost their collection and tax revenues . 
  In this regard  HKJC is known for its strictness as far as illegal bettings are concerned. Their law have provision of 9 months imprisonment and 30,000 HK dollar fine as a maximum punishment for illegal bettings, that is the reason their online betting collection / turnover is good. 
    

Let me give expert advice here since I know this situation well-  When I was betting there were many who wanted my selections for a price - but my logic was still is -If I am good why should I take small amounts from other punters - I should just bet my own money and earn money ..it will come if I am really good ...I won't put the other's down who are charging for their consultancy they are experienced and good ...but maybe not good enough ...

First  let the Raceing  starts  raceing club will be knowing the practical difficulties 

So far in India no one had an experience of on line  betting 

In my opinion if they  start arround 25% of racing  attendance in race course  taking all precaution measures they  can do live odds with bookmakers and their will b charm 

With out reality online raceing is not worth in reality 

Raceing  is not compared with any other sports 

It's kind of kings  sports  i don't know if people think it's gambling no option 

Practically if u watch  live raceing  u will not have  any Health problems you will  b so active mind will  be  sharpening 

No other game can b compared with  horse racing 

All raceing  members should  think  and make  an bold decision like  our Present CM took a decision to lift lockdown 

Regards 

According to me, wagering(this is the right legal expression-- read Section 30 of the Contract Act as it stands today) on oversaes sites and portals iis not legal. I doubt that any bank will allow remittance of money on this account.

However, if the Government by specific approval allows on line punting in India on approved sites like the race clubs, it is perfectly legal. The wager will be on the tote of the respective clubs and if one wants a receipt of the wagering done, can maintain an excel sheet.

While many may argue that after that idiotic GST, the payout will be small and hence, there wont be such a rush to play on line. However, recognising that there is no choice it will be a success. The cherry on the pudding will be the bookies disapper. If any bookie illegally operates any site developed by him, if caught, he will face a stiff sentance.

Somehow, even though SSPP is no longer in the racing sport/game, he still attracts a lot of response. Like a fly to the spider's web!! Most post of SSPP makes interesting reading-- having his pants taken away he besseches people to get wise like him and stay away from the race course, which according o him is a den of thieves!

Cheers,