Abhay Singh,

The revenue from racing department to the Government is very low.  And you are stating that government decision is influenced by revenue consideration & not covid threat.

Well.  The highest money spinner to the Government is Railway department.  And 98.5% trans are in lockdown.  So, I feel that you should revise your thinking.

Strictly speaking, the revenue from racing should be substantial if the bookies collect 28% gst and make correct entries in the bet sheet.  That is why I am repeatedly stating that bookies are the biggest cheaters, tax evaders.  They are fully protected by the turf club supervisors.  It is a pity that very high percentage of punters also support the bookies.  A case of lambs trusting the butcher.

I do not think the Government is revengeful when it is taking decision on racing.  It has to  take the decision after taking all aspects into consideration.  And, I do feel that the Government is acting most sensibly.

Even if punters feel that the Government is overacting, they should welcome postponment/cancellation of racing with thunderous clappings.  Today is 157th day without racing.  Thus a good number of punters have saved substantially.  A small fraction will feel different.  Let them.

My heartfelt condolences to the bookies and those punters who were gaining millions everyday.

 @ Raghavan/Vijayakumar

     I have come to join some interesting points raised by both of you. 

     Firstly, all of us were knowing that Pune racing will not start on August 23 but a section of the punters thought by raising their voice in support of the issue, they can make it happen. Now, take it from me, racing will not be allowed to commence anywhere in India the whole of 2020. I have nothing against resumption of races because I know pretty well I don't have the powers to control such decisions. Still, there's something called 'common sense' and 'wise thinking'. Too much of racing sometimes affects such thinking in some people.

     Secondly, about owners and trainers not coming forward to express their views here? Why should they? I hope none of us have any doubt that horse racing is a mere gambling act and that owners and trainers are also 'gamblers' like the punters. Therefore, owners and trainers will do everything to hoodwink the punters and make them stay here for long. Otherwise how they can survive in this punter-based industry?

     Many of us had seen trainers coming to the betting ring (some deputing others) to place bets with the bookies. Do you think that they are 'real' bets? Not at all? Those 'shouts' are only to confuse the punters and encourage the bookies to earn as much as they can so that owners and trainers get their 'commission' later. 

     At least now do we realize why Mr Raghavan has been so vociferous in opposing the bookies? Most of these bookies have only been 'immoral' and 'predatory' in that they will stoop to any level to prey on our money. Aren't the owners and trainers not aware that the bookies have been accepting illegal bets and making crores of rupees every season? Why neither they nor the stewards are not really serious to put an end to this malicious act?

     It's pretty outrageous that bookies are allowed a free run to 'loot' punters in the name of horse racing and sooner than later there will be a Court ruling banning operation of bookies in this form which amounts to cheating the government of several crores of rupees by way of tax.

     So, do you expect owners and trainers, most of who are hand in glove with the bookies, to come and share their thoughts here? Oh, no. 

     If there is one section that makes a living by gambling in horse racing it's only bookmakers and punters will continue to keep discussing issues like 'when it is advisable to wager' or 'which horse has a good chance to win or place'. That's why it is said that in horse racing, you must actually expect the worst. Those who try to claim that betting on horses is a very lucrative business are, therefore, the ones who have gone mad after experiencing the worst and now want others also to follow suit.

@ Raghavanji,

       I would like to point out that Owners/Trainers/Jockeys and     Bookies are also part and parcel of the racing industry like  punters.  I find no reason for their hesitation to interact here.  Perhaps if they contribute here then their IN AND OUT strategy would be made public resulting in their profit cut.

           They want to keep the punters in vacillation in order to make horse racing always a guessing game. That's why they are not inclined to participate in the HT.,  I presume.

         I think the learned SSPP may throw more light on this than me.

          With regards.

Well these things happen when decision are not rational and are taken more on economic consideration than on actual covid threat. Since racing is a low tax generating it is suffering had it generated significant amount of tax like liquor then also govt division would have been the same

The Royal Western India Turf Club which had scheduled two race days in August has cancelled the same as the government permission was not forthcoming. The club is hoping for a first-week start in September.

Dear Raghavan ji, I had intended pun in my post.

Punters expecting  races from 23 Aug (which you also know is impossible) is height of optimism.

Sorry guys, no racing in August.

Abhay Singh,

No one is criticising racing.  It depends on Government decision whether to permit races or not.

You are telling that public behaviour will be disciplined inside the race course  since they are also afraid of their safety.  You are also telling that there are many activities going on where public mix with each other in large number, and maintaining social distancing.  And similar order & discipline will be seen in race course too.

Well.  You are entitled to your view.  And best of luck to you.  I do not have that much confidence among punters.

I will definitely change my understanding if the racing public adhere to all safety norms and mantain social distancing at least in one race in a day.

@raghavan sir

Let us not assume that only fools come to the race course and punters will pounce upon each other as the gates are opened. Are the markets same way crowded as they used to be before covid they why do u assume that things will be the same as the used to be before covid. Every body fears for his life and they know they can't behave in similar way.

See when markets can open liquor shops can open, flights can open where so many people sit so close for so much time just because the govt thinks that these are very essential but the corona virus does not now what is essential or non essential

Racing starts or not it will be decided by the govt but at least we should not always critisize racing

Forget racing for the time being.

Only play and see in your dreams.

Racewalla,

Strict protocol?  Discipline?  Absolutely impossible thing inside the race course.  There will be big big rush at counters during the last 5 minutes before the start.  It is immaterial whether the interval between 2 races is 30 minutes or one hour.

That apart, just look at so many politicians, celebrities who were affected by the virus.  Amitabh Bachchan, Aiswarya rai, CMs of Karnataka & Madhya Pradesh etc.

They certainly would have taken highest care of themselves; but even then they had to stay in hospital because of virus attack.  Compared to them, what precautions we punters take?  Just one face shield that may be worth between 250 to 600.  We pray God to ensure that we will not be caught by the virus.

Of course, the turf club is not taking any chance in this regard.  So, only online betting.  NO BOOKIES.

Will racing starts on August 23?

Come Aug 23 it will be postpomed tp Sept 23..Like wise this will go on to Mumbai meeting in Nov....

 After that who knows.No one in the Govt has the daring to tell us when the trains will start,let alone racing

S C Sharma,

Racing is one among the many things where optimists outnumber pessimists.  But, I hope you will agree that pessimsts, in small numbers atleast, are necessary for healthy discussion,  Pessimists are not demanding ban on races.  They only feel that in the prevailing threat by the virus, the racing should not be started in haste.

Vjaykumar,

If owners/trainers/bookies desire to interact here, they are most welcome.  This is a free site.  If they are not inclined for whatever reasons, then it shall not be proper on our part to insist on their contribution.

Shrikant,

"Be realistic.  Do not be either optimist or pessimist."  Right.  A good one.

Dewsnow, Vasant W:  

Not only you two.  90% of punters are hopeful of racing to start from Aug 23.  But, sadly, rwitc is tight lipped.  Let us wait and see.  I will also welcome if races begin on 23rd.  

Iron man,

I thought that Maharashtra Government has already granted permission.  If not, it is hoped that rwitc will get permission in due time.

Hals, Golden Viper, R Ramesh:

Yes.  The chances of racing till November is extremely doubtful.

Safety of every one   involved   in  racing is the main  consideration  once  racing starts in Pune . Even   if we   assume that  strict   protocols will be followed   by all   racing  professionals  and  officials   ,  it  is  unlikely that racegoers will be able to do likewise   inside   the race course .   We  lack   basic  civic  sense  and   discipline  as   has been  evident  in every  race course  where punters can be seen smoking  , littering and spitting all over the place . Race clubs have all along  failed  to curb such  tendecies and I doubt if they can exercise any effective control  once racing  resumes . As for  the covid  situation , Pune  has  shown 1148  new cases today with 48 deaths and progressive total has crossed 75000 . It is , therefore ,  safer to conduct   racing , as a first step ,   without racegoers  or  bookmakers  and proceed   further  gradually  with  abundant  caution . Let us not forget that opening   of   malls ,  gyms , pubs  etc   in  many    western  countries  has boomranged   and resulted in a fresh wave of covid . Thus the suggestion that all those willing to attend races be allowed inside the race course is not a sound proposition .

@ Raghavanji,

          While  majority of the punters are very much concerned and praying for the early start of the racing all over India,  I fail to understand why the horse owners, trainers, jockeys and most importantly the bookies who are the most privileged persons in the racing industry are not evincing keen interest on the issue and remain as silent spectators.

       As Horse Talk, India Race Com. is a common platform , let them also join in our discussions here and offer their suggestions so as to find an early solution to the problem.

       A 1952 song popularized the phrase "IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO" and it was applied to everything that required two parties from romance to fighting.  In other words it can also be said  "A SINGLE HAND CAN'T CLAP ".

          Am I right ?.

As I said earlier, races may commence around November. Without punters races will be boring. I don't see any chance around August.

Don't be optimistic or don't be pessimistic. "BE REALISTIC " Read the present situation, then decide yourself is it worth to involved in Racing immediately or just seat behind and watch the situation. It's an individual choice ,with all respect.

Sooner or later racing going to be happen or start. But main concern is since last 6 month  there is no racing, so whether all clubs arranged or conduct any meeting with respective club officials,with stewerts or will they have new protocol for CLEAN AND FAIR racing ,or just want to start racing in hurry..with same old story.

Yes August 23 rd it will start with rules n regulations to be followed by the govt. I agree that cases are rising but just think of the cases recovering also.

Races will start with close doors until when I don't know n only online betting will be there provide the app is good enough to use. 

Let's hope for the best and hope all jockeys, trainers, stable workers are safe n fine. 

As u said I too have my own doubts, given the prevailing alarming state of covid pandemic, especially in Maharashtra. Hope racing may start sooner than later at least by winter.

Races starting from 23 Aug, that is what I call real optimism.

     We have discussed this matter many times but everytime new scenario develops and the situation is changing fast and new unexpected developments are noticed so  in the light of above we have  to view this aspect from two different  angels and I submit as : 
    One is optimistic and one is pessimistic. Basic difference is optimistics feels and their thinking is crystal clear --  that racing activity is at stand still now  due to corona pandemic alongwith so many other business and sports activities and these is a temporary phase.  . How long this situation will prolong nobody can predict exactly and confidently but the activity is not banned or illegal. So  optimistics are of the view  that anytime the activity may  resume. Secondly race club authorities are also  working on second plans  to re start and conduct racing without spectators and to introduce online bettings which also permitted in some states but still facing some hardships and some administrative and other problems . This means as soon as these problems are solved/ attended, racing will resume.

     What pessimists are thinking and conveying that racing is banned which sounds not having legality and they are not hopeful for start of  this activity forever but they are not admitting the fact that this is a temporary situation faced by all businesses, industries, public transport, airlines, railways, temples, hotels,  education institutions, cinemas and other sports too and to hope early start of all above such activities  including horse racing and to remain optimistic is not abnormal. Some may have dislike or negativity or some personal complaints  for some activities but that don't mean all such activities are banned legally and not going to start for long or permanently. 
     The broader perspective is all activities including horse racing will start sooner or later, so no use of spreading dislike or negativity. Even after resumption of all above mentioned activities You got all your own rights where to visit or not. No one need  to take a permission from anyone  to visit at race course, at hotel, at temple, at any other club where they are eligible to visit or to visit a bar. Everything is optional for all and not at the mercy of anyone. My simple argument is individuals choice, freedom and options of visit  to all places  anywhere in the country also to be respected. If a person is pessimistic and have a dislike for racing and not attending races or decided not to attend races, We must respect his decision and welcome . Similarly if someone like to attend a activity which is not good for someone but permissible under law is also to be respected. Pessimists are only concerned about horse racing . They want horse racing to remain in stand still for long or for permanently. I have my own doubt that there wishes will be fulfilled.  They are not bothered about other activities at stand still. If they realise this fact than they can understand properly the present scenario. The problem is not only faced by racing industry alone but all are facing trouble and hardships due to corona pandemic and the root cause of all activities to remain at stand still is corona pandemic. When Corona problem is solved or a vaccine will come in market than all these speculations will be put to rest. And I am hopeful and optimistic that a solution will come soon. Time frame in not in the hands or pessimists or optimists.  Wait and hope for the best. Stay at home and stay safe and remain optimistic . It costs nothing to remain optimistic.

1)online betting- online Gambling is illegal by Bombay act in Maharashtra ,(karnatna state has no provision for that,so they got online permission ),unless  a new ordinance not pass online betting next to impossible.

2)23 august- now we are living in phase where everything is difficult to predict.. If somebody got positive just before race,may the leds to cancel entire day schedule(we all know poonawala ji,he always prefers human rather than money)

For me 23rd August is possible date..Maha govt.allowed 10th& 12th school/colleges..

& lastly puna has not that much worse condition compare to Mumbai & Delhi..

Without patrons & bookies race is not valuable for clubs.there also no guarantee for next Mumbai season..so puna is the only option left for RWITC,challenging but not really impossible.

you have given a very accurate picture based on facts rather than wishful  thinking

RWITC  web site has no mention of any thing  regarding commencement of racing other than track work.

There will be a 3 week gap before  racing starts and their avnnouncment.

So enjoy the letters i agree with him no betting  for me till dec jan