VJ

Your latest post was unnecessary.  The Turf authorities will be regularly representing with GST council urging them to reduce GST on horse betting.  The said representation is 19 months old.

It is rather amusing that you are relying on the routine exchange of letters between TAI & GST council to argue.  The GST council were not impressed by the logic of TAI.  

The GST council in all probability would have replied in negative to the TAI.   And both the TAI & GST council would have completely forgotten about the representtion.  

VJ

The Turf Authorities represented to GST council to reduce the GST slab on horse betting.

The said representation is 19 months old.  Evidently the competent authority were not impressed by their arguments and have recorded the request.  And, in all probability both TAI and GST councl might have forgotten about that.  

And, you are relying on that aspect to argue your case. 

Thank God, you have not referred the various representation by stewards before July 2017 to the GST council.

The TAI forcefully argued (or at least did the drama of forceful argument) and the GST council has considered those arguments.  The Government considers race betting a sin, and as on date there is no ecape from 28% GST.  You may be dealing in big amount/s (petis & khokas) with private bookies.  That is not the concern of GST council.  The Supreme Court has said that horse betting is a game of skill.  About 4 decades back.  But, as far as the GST council  is concerned, horse betting is nothing but gambling and sin.

You are dealing with "private bookie".  The minimum expected of you and the minimum that common sense dictates is that you should maintain silence on that and not shout about that in such open public site.  What you are doing is illegal.  It is certainly not badge of honour to be flaunted.

For your information I give below some of the tough situation the "private bookies"  have gone through.

In the last week of January 2021, police arrested three bookies who were running betting operation on horse races clandestinely, recovered 5 mobile phones and also recovered cash Rs. 5.05 lakhs.

In the 2nd week of December 2020, police raided and arrested 30+ bookies for running unauthorised horse betting operation and evading GST.

During last winter season (2019-20), there were frequent raids by police & commercial tax authorities on Bangalore bookies.  The bookies have not functioned duing the major part of the season!

Ragahvan,

below is one more article for you. So next time when you post something don't think that everyone is like you (useless).

https://www.indiarace.com/Home/getFullNews/138

whatever I said makes 100% sense and whatever you are arguing shows what a sore loser you are 

You are arguing without any logic.   Government has not acceded to the representations of turf authorities to reduce the gst.  It is considered sin.  And 28% gst is applicable.

And people are betting in spite of 28%.  Yesterday combined jackpot pool collections were more than 5 lakhs.  It paid above 1 lakh to two successful tickets.  Income tax is payable on that.  

You are making punters aware of the lower dividends in tote as compared with the correct odds/price for that horse!  Absolute waste of time.  All punters are aware of the higher dividend one gets from bookies, lower payout at the tote.  

Gst was not introduced just one month back.  It is in force since July 2017.  And, the punters are betting at tote in spite of such steep taxes.  I have no problem with the one or two win bets in 10 attempts.  You are cautioning me that I will continue to lose.  Arre baba, hope is eternal in gambling.  A  man who is betting for the first time may be thinking of profit/s that he may get.  But, his 2nd, 3rd, 100th, 1000th bets are only to win back the losses.

"Several bookies have surrendered license because of loss".

I have my own doubt about this.  The concerned bookie must be indulging in drama or theatrics.   I have not come across any bookie who is so frustrated & desperate that he  is forced to surrender his license on account of loss.  O K.  You seem to be better informed.  May be you are correct that several bookies have stopped their business.   I can say with confidence that for every such bookie, there are at least 10,000 punters who have lost heavily.

I am not having problem with 33% tax.  But, I also hope that the Government reduce the GST to 5% or 12%.  I also hope that petrol prices be slashed by half.  I also hope that there is no tax for stay in luxury hotels.  Well.  I have a big list of hopes.  BUT, we as citizens of this country, have given power to legislatures to frame laws.  We have to abide by such laws.

Prohibition is in force in some States.  The concerned State Government is conscious of the huge loss in revenue.  Prohibition was in force for several years in Tamilnadu; but the Government removed prohibition.  It then started running tasmac shops.  So, do not harp on revenue aspect.  There are 100s of cities where there is no racing.  You have no problem with private bookies.  We, tote bettors have no problem with gst, incometax.

I am winning just 1 or 2 bets out of 10 attempts.  I have no problem on that count.  You seem to be concerned.  Perhaps you are winning every bet or at least  every second bet.  Enjoy your winnings.  Buy mercedes benz , gold, houses or even a private jet!  

There are several 1000 tote bettors; the punters who do business with bookies may be 15 times or 20 times that number.  Everybody is a loser.  Tote betters are neither superior to nor inferior to those who bet with bookies.  Similarly those who bet with bookies are neither superior to nor inferior to tote bettors.

Raghavan,

I have already mentioned that if you or government thinks that racing/gambling is bad then you or govt should stop it completely. Alcohol/ bars/cigarettes/ everything should be banned in that case if govt is so much concerned about people's money. No they can't do that coz they don't want to loose the revenue.  When you said bookies are the real winners that shows your minimal knowledge on bookmaking as well. Do you know how many bookmakers have withdrawn their license because of losses. For me racing  is a sport, gambling is a profession it doesn't matter whether you are on the bookie side or a punter side.

Who are you tell me on not to lecture govt to promote legal gambling. Just as how you have your opinion of 33% tax is ok for you I have mine as 33% tax is ridiculous. As far as me talking about tote punters in contemptuous manner,I  am making them aware of the of the dividends what tote is paying and what the real price is.  Looks like  you are going through a bad streak of luck ,and top of it your tote pay for one win out 9 bets didn't cover your losses.  Keep playing at tote you ll end up losing more inspite of having winners

VJ

I have no intention of joining any tutorial to learn the merits &/or drawbacks of gambling.  I bet in the hope of getting some plus based on past performance of horses & the established competence of the jockey.  I think majority of punters do the same.  If however, my expectation/guess proves wrong, then I will throw the ticket away.  In three days betting, (31st HYD, 1st MYS & 3rd KOL) I had 9 bets but only one bet passed & one bet refund.

You do not believe that I am a successful gambler?  Excellent.  I also do not believe that you are a successful gambler either!

In fact, every body in the horse racing circle know damn well that it is the punter's money that the club, Government, bookies, jockeys, owners & trainers try to snatch.  And they are successfully doing this day after day, year after year.

Also, there is absolutely no necessity to share your bank balance details with me.  I do not remember asking you for the same.  Your bank balance, net worth etc are the concern of your spouse and children.  To me you are a punter.  Full stop.  You are welcome to share your winnings/losses occasionally.  OR, you can remain silent.  

BUT, when you speak about tote punters in such a contemptuous manner, there is bound to be a simple question from tote players.  "What you have achieved by betting with private bookies?".

Are you in big profit from betting with private bookies?  Then enjoy those winnings and stop worrying about the tote players.  

Stop lecturing the Government to promote legal betting.  The Government does not want you to bet.  Instead save that money which may prove helpful to you in future in some critical situation.  If you must bet, then pay hefty tax.  The Government does not want to improve its cash balance from the gst on race bettings.  There are several hundreds of cities in India where there is no racing.  

To me you are a punter.  Punter means the man who loses 3 bets and somehow manages to win in one bet.  But he will be dancing thaiya thakka with that win bet as if he has won the Reserve Bank of India.  However, if you are a person with higher strike rate & winning regularly, then prove that by stating in advance the horses that you like and proposed bets thereon.  Do not indulge in bland meaningless rhetoric.

IN RACE BETTING THERE ARE NO WINNERS.  THE ONLY WINNERS ARE THE BOOKIES, CLUB AND THE GOVERNMENT.

People who claim they are the winners in race betting are cheating themselves.  

Raghavan,

Gambling doesnt look whether you are newbie or an oldschool. If you dont give any value for odds then i dont believe that you are a succesful gambler.Even if you have 50% strike rate when you dont play at right price then you are a loser. Secondly to prove my winnings i dont have to share my bank account details with you, my knowledge on showing the difference by betting at tote against bookie is good enough to show whether i am a winner or a loser.  

Abbas J,

Shall be thankful if you restate in simpler terms what you want to convey.  What is the 67% & 25% that you have mentioned?

Ayyarnet/Godzilla

My expectation is the c/o amounts should be invariably added to corresponding pools in the very next day racing of the same center.  For jackpot pool, the carried over amount should be added within the next 21 days.  

SPS:

Had a hearty laugh when VJ said that I am winning one bet on a blue moon day.  I do not tom tom that I am a big big winner.  In fact out of my 100 bets, more than 80 are sure to fail.  So, what VJ says is somewhat correct.  But, such statements should only come from the punters who are winning in races.  VJ has not cared to clarify what is his strike rate or how many lakhs or millions he has won from private bookies.  

I have dealt with men of similar mindset in the past.  All of them were shouting in high pitch about their winnings.  Perhaps they expected that I will cheer them for their winnings.  But, I started cross questioning them.  They have gone silent.  

VJ is relatively new comer.

Here I completely agree with you. There is should a page on every race club website  which should have clear information on Carry over amounts. What is the C/O amount, on what wager it was carryed over for, when it was added or it will be added. We punters / racing enthusiasts should put in a request to all the race clubs to provide a clear picture on whats happening with these carry over amounts. 

SPS,

My concern was never on what contributes for 33% take out. Racing should not be taxed as a GST product. If i buy a beer  you tax GST thats ok (i dont agree fpr.  Only Racing officials  know how much tote collections have dropped in the recent years because of this high tax brakcet. Going down the years it will drop even further. 

Either drop it down to 10% of the pool amount or take 5% on the winning amount. Govt may see drop in revenue inititally but in the long run it will catch up.   Seconly, Promote legal betting.   

Hello All,

May be the Club don't have money for regular Salaries and expenses to pay. 

And about GST and my Study say's. This is FACT CHECK.

Through GST and Club Commision, they pays atleast 67 % of Rupee.

But I am guarantee Average Bookies pays less than 25% of Rupee. 

Still club pays more by tote ways.

Congrats We have an untiring Book Keeper for Carried forward amount.

in races.  We are bound to appreciate his efforts for highlighting the trics of the race clubs.

Thanks Sri. Raghavan

raghavan

Brilliant write up. I fully endorse your views. These Clubs think, there is no one to question them. The punters money should be released immediately. They have no moral right to with-hold for their convenience.

VJ
This is with reference to your last reply of 2nd. Feb. posted on your thread dated 29. January.

Information is power and we should respect it.

Mr. Raghvan has this much information therefore on my request he has shared it. You are commenting on 33%.
(28% GST & 5% Club Commission)
After reading Raghvan reply I came to know that Club Commission is a DARK GREY area and BTC had a monopoly.
On WIN & PLACE pool it is less than 5%
On SHP & THP it is about 5%.
On Fore Cast, Quinila & Trinila Club Commission is more than 5%

On Jack Pot it is very high, more than GST. & On Treble  Club Commission is further 1 % more than Club Commission on Jack Pot.
Now one can understand why there is one or two upset races are there regularly in Jack Pot Leg Races. It is a must to eliminate most of the Jack Pot Tickets.
You can play WIN & PLACE with private bookies but for SHP & THP tote is the only option.
If Mr. Raghvan is comfortable with small investment on Fire Cast etc. It is personal decision. You should not make any personal negative comments on that.
Now in this thread Mr. Raghvan has put his effort to public awareness on long pending C/o amount of Jackpot. We all appreciate this.

In general 33% tax is a overburden but public can't do anything.

Nothing personal. You too are WELCOME.