The battle of wits between Raghavan and IIMBLUE is absolutely thrilling, interesting, and amusing.  Though they differ in their betting strategy,  they come close to each other in one aspect. That is,  both are striving hard for the survival of the racing industry.  Obviously both love horse racing and there is no iota of doubt about this. 

      As I already said, from their inputs,  punters gain quantum of knowledge about  horse racing that will help them to survive in this tricky game with better prospects.

       " Come on,  Come on"  . Punters be ready for a great winter season at BTC.. Also adhere to Raghavan's advice and bet low.

           Best of luck. 

Buddy,

So betting smaller amount & losing is torture to you!  One should bet all the money in his possession, lose everything  quickly and quit betting. Excellent advise.  One who listens to such non sense talks ends up with coconut shells in his hands.  

I can not understand, why a person who bets in lakhs & millions should take pains to counselling another bettor who bets modest sums.  (Max 500).  I will definitely consult you if and when I decide to bet higher amount.

You had no opening balance and no income!  Yet on borrowed money, you started betting and survived so long.  You can peddle such lies in hundreds.  I say you are a loser.  And a heavy loser at that.

No punter, howsoever shrewd can bet in such high volumes and survive 30 years.  You are a rank failure and bluff master.  I have seen your selections on Mumbai racing 2018-19.  Your talk of retirement will fool no body.  

If you are really winner, then give details of your fixed and movable assets.

If you are heavy bettor,  then interact with heavy bettors.  And, please leave those who bet low, bet at tote, and bet shp, trinella & forecast to their fate.  

IIM Blue,

"Trust him to spoil the future threads too"

Do not talk silly & non sense.  No body is so powerful that he can spoil Indiarace Horsetalk site.  And, I am an ordinary tote punter with betting range 200 to 500!

Regarding my strike rate:  till a man really attempts and wins around 20% of his forecast bets, no body should take pot shots at my low striker rate in forecast pool.  Of course, I am only asking you to be fair & reasonable.  If however, you can not withhold your temptation & indulge in balderdash, I have absolutely no objection.

I think you are hinting that my racing knowledge & my strike rate will improve if I be humble.  I will definitely consult you, if and when I desire to improve my strike rate. My current strike rate is OK with me.  If the strike rate falls to zero, then it is double OK with me.  You please reserve your tutorial for those hapless punters who are desperate to achieve higher strike rate.  

I pray to Almighty to never improve my strike rate.  I certainly can not afford to be a man of higher strike rate.  I have seen the extremely horrible and  pitiable condition of punters with higher strike rate!

*********

Why are you so shy of answering the question about the taxes paid by you during last ten years.  Certainly you are well aware of tax laws.  You claim to be the law abiding citizen!

IIM Blue is condemning my strike rate or laughing at my strike rate.  

My strike rate is below 15%.  It touched 15% two times, 12% two times & rest of the times it was 13 or 14%.  

I do not see tips threads before the races.  Anyway, I think IIM Blue is not a regular tipster.   

I had some soft corner towards him because he took  a strong position against bookies taking bets at half tax.  But, now I feel whatever he writes in this site is nothing more than humbug.

IIM Blue will do himself a great service if he worries about his own strike rate.  He says that one should be humble.   Because, if one is humble, his strike rate increases.  On the other hand if he is arrogant, his strike rate will be low, lower".   There may be merit in what he says.  But such advises carry nil weight if coming from rank hypocrites.

Only those punters who bet on forecast pool & who enjoy 20% (Or more) strike rate have the moral authority to question me.  Let him tip for forecast pool, show that he is more knowledgeable and enjoys higher strike rate and then only comment upon my strike rate.   People who do not bet on forecast pool or those who bet on forecast pool & their striker rate is 15% or below are certainly not qualified to censure my strike rate.  If they however arrogate to thermselves the right to criticise me, without establishing their credentials first,   then they are rank hypocrites.  

Realistically speaking, IIM Blue may enjoy a strike rate of 40%.  Whether it is really 40% or much higher or much lower he has to prove.  He has to tip at least 75 horses each from 3 centers and then claim the strike rate.

I do not mind if people doubt the veracity of my claim of 12 to 15% strike rate.  They can believe that it is zero%.  At the same time I do not believe IIM Blue in any way better punter than myself.  

IIM Blue says every punter has the right to decide on his bets and no one should poke his nose.  My dear IIM Blue, where I have asked any bettor to bet as per my instructions.  Let them bet just 100/- or 10 lakhs.   That is their money.  The only request I make to any punter is bet low, bet at tote or at least bet as per the strength of their purse.  That is only a friendly request.   If two persons agree with me,  500 punters ignore me.   

But, I question the bookies, and their taking bets at 10%.   Let the bookies react.  Why the punters should act as bookies' mouth pieces?  And that too a punter who has expressed his strong reservations against them.

I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYBODY WHO BETS ON FORECAST POOL ENJOYS A STRIKE RATE OF 20% OR ABOVE.  If anyone claims that he bets on forecast and his strike rate is 21% or 25%, then he is cheating himself and is a rank liar.  

kautilya,

 you  can't  escape. your  acceptance  of  'childish' mistakes of  dates after  such  a  long  time  dalay, exposes  your  IQ as  well  as your  understanding  of  Indian  racing and  shows  your casualness  with ongoing discussion.

However,  remember  I'm ready  to  convert 50  to 500k in  a  year  or less  BUT  THE  SAME CHALLENGE YOU  HAVE  ALSO  ACCEPTED. iI HOPE  YOU  WILL  ALSO PROVE  YOUR  WORTH. 

However, I'll reduce  your RISK OF  LOOSING  by reducing  your  return  by 'half' in  that  you  have  to  CONVERT  50K  TO  ONLY 250K!!!!

For  me  50  k  to  500 k  STANDS....

I find the contributors to the HT highly knowledgeable and I have been profited by the exchanges here.Most of them have high strike rates , and we are fortunate that they are sharing their experiences with us.

Just because a person is "addict" for forty years ,  it does not make him knowledgeable! The proof is in "lowest of low" strike rate.A person in such pathetic situation should become --humble , very humble --if he wants to improve.But no he becomes-- jeolous, very jeolous--at whoever , having high strike rates & knowledge .He refuses to understand simplest of things.No wonder the nonexistent strike rate is "correlated" to that.

What methodology a punter adopts ,how much he plays , and where he plays is purely his affair and no one has any right to poke his nose into it.I have bluntly told him that , but of course , as expected, he is unable to understand ! Trust him to spoil all future threads too!!

Vijayakumar,

"Horse racing soon commencing at HYD, BNG & Chennai".  I do not know whether this is good news or bad news.  During 2020, entire summer & monsoon races were wiped out.  And, I was expecting the same thing during  2021 also.  But, HYD dates announced.  And there may be a mini season at Chennai & truncated summer races at BNG.

But, remember one thing.  All the programmes are only the desire of respective clubs.  Nothing is certain.  The only plus point in favor of turf clubs is in the no of people affected by 2nd wave.  It touched 3,50,000 to 4 lakhs once.  Now it is 50k+. 

But, 50k+ is not a small number either.  When the races were cancelled during 2020 (that is on 13/3/2020), the total deaths were less than 10 and the number of cases less than 500.  

Even if the numbers drop to 10k level by July 26th, will that be ignored by the Government & green signal given to turf club?  I do not think, Government will grant permission hastily.  

Can you quote what benefit the Government gets by permitting races?  Tax collection will be pittance!  Government considers race betting a sin.  Supreme Court order notwithstanding.  And, more punters means higher risk of corona cases.  You may say races without spectators!  But, in that case totes will be open to facilitate advance betting.  And the punters are highly indisciplined.   As per Social distancing norms, 2 meters gap should be maintained between two punters.  But, I was seeing 5 to 10 punters in every two meters.  Race clubs will be hot spots for spreading corona fever.

Excuse me for bringing up some negative aspects.  I may sound pessimist.  But, I speak realistically.  Of course, if races are okayed by the Govt, I will definitely contribute to tote.

***********

So, you are finding the discussion interesting!  To me it is amusing.  There are some horsetalk members who desire to put me on defensive by mentioning about taxes.  Their reading of rules & interpretation has really stunned me.   O K.  If their version is correct, then I am a tax evader, and all other one lakh+ punters are tax evaders.  One worthy has even asked me to consult a tax tawyer.  Let those members & also those who upvote them mention the quantum of tax paid during last 10 years.  

I am telling 10 years because, I am very much interested to see the tax on race winnings paid by one Mr. Buddy.  He is claiming wins in the range of several crores every week.  And, that of Chanakya!  Who claims million win every 2nd day.  And, most importantly, IIM Blue.  He is making too much noise about taxation & is screaming in high decibel that he is the law abiding & tax paying citizen.

Ok Chanakya

My mistake in typing wrong year.. its 2019 and not 2021. It was a typo error but rest remains same. Since you have admitted you have poor positive ROI i will not post any further on this matter. 

BUT 50k to 500K challenge is open. Will see you when racing starts. 

Raghu - between losing slowly [40yrs torture your case] wasting time going on and on even after knowing you will lose says you like to torture yourself- its better for a newbe to lose all his funds quickly - quit the game and move on to something constructive - I would not have lasted for 30+ yrs if was not doing well - I had no money no income to start with ...lets say started with borrowed money small amounts ...its always the persons financial graph that matters - who has more or less ....does not matter or concern me.

Buddy,

"none of your business"

O K.   You are riled. What I should tell you about your comment on my betting?  That too for more than 4 years you were harping on my bets on SHP, forecast, trinella. 

I can not understand what my bets and losses thereon should be of any concern to you.  That too when you have taken retirement,  You are advising Srinivas about your experience/s as a punter some four or five years ago.  O K.  Do that by all means.  But, why are you taking my name?  "Raghu..not showing off".

You see.  If you want me not to speak to you, then that is an excellent thing.  You also do not talk to me.  It is a good riddance.  Even I am bored of your claims of high end punting & astronomical winning/s.  Pure bundlebaaz.  It shall be much better if you restrict your interaction with those who bet high.  Do not show off your heroics to me.  I have seen high bettors like you in plenty.  Today they are struggling to even bet at tote.

Spade,

So, there is no case law.  I think section 194BB was added to income tax law or Act. more than 30 years ago.  So, till date, no case law has been created.  That is what Dancing dynamite also stated.  

I asked you regarding case law on  30/5/2021.  You replied that you have already replied on 27/5/2021.   It is like asking the Railway clerk on 30/5/2021 to reserve a berth on date 27/5/21.  Mostly the Railway clerk will dismiss you or hand you over to RPF for creating nuisance.. 

When I insisted you to come with case law, you have replied that  "Case laws get created only if an ambigious or incorrect law or judgement gets challenged in Court."  

In fact, your friend IIM Blue is the person who is making big noise about tax provision & compliance.   I have highlighted some of the posts from him. You can see that in this thread itself.  You can definitely ask him what tax he (IIM Blue) has paid.  Of course Dancing dynamite has declared that he does not pay taxes on winnings.  You also can highlight the taxes paid by you.

Dancing thaiya thacka and screaming like mad man will certainly amuse me.  But it does not make whatever you say as the right position in law.   You are fully at liberty to make yourself a laughing stock.   I am not at all in denial.  Definitely, I will obey law if the position is clarified by the CBDT or Finance Minister. If I have violated law, then all race punters (numbering  between 1 lakh to 2 lakhs) - whether betting with bookies or betting at tote - have violated the law.  

I have no desire to pay any legal consultant. to clarify on this point.  

I do not remember that I have ever claimed that I am the most honest person.  Yes.  I do agree that I have raked up bookies acceptance of bets at half tax.   And, if you google search, you will find at least 6 instances in the last 3 years where bookies were arrested and jailed and are now on bail.  But, I have not seen any punter being arrested or prosecuted for violating tax provision on winnings from horse race.  

Now, it is for Spade (yourself) & IIM Blue to disclose, declare the quantim of taxes paid on horse race winnings.   Of course as per your argument, entire winnings are taxable & an assessee is not entitled to any deduction from the taxable amount because of previous or subsequent losses.  It seems you are enjoying better strike rate than myself which is at less than 15%.  Your tax liability also must be substantially high.  

       This thread is proceeding quite interestingly.  Every participant is sharing there treasure of knowledge  which will be certainly beneficial  to other punters in their journey with this tricky field.  

       My hearty congratulations to Raghavan,  IImblue,   Chanakya,  Buddy and many others for keeping the thread very lively. 

        Horse Racing will soon be commenced in Bangalore,  Hydrabad, and Chennai.  All the best to every punter. 

KSMROW 

Is it really possible to have a 30 percent strike rate that is one in three horses betting on horses having odd 4.5 . this is highly impossible. If somebody can manage this strike rate then he will be a millionair in one season.

If one could manage 30 percent strike rate on places that are quoted at 1 to 1.5 then also one could win lots of money. But achieving this on place bets is very difficult daily.there will be days when not a single bet will pass.

@Cry Baby-

Case laws get created only if an ambiguous or incorrect oaw or judgment gets challenged in court. They are not  a pre-requisite for proving a point. So stop harping on it. Try to get that into your thick skull. It will be painfully difficult but see if you can push it in.

I had told you to REFER THE MATTER TO COMPETENT LOCAL TAX CONSULTANTS. Have you not understood that yet? How many times do you need the same thing to be hammered in? Here you will not accept any explanation from anybody because  YOU DON'T WANT TO. You wouldn't understand it either going by your GRASPING POWER OR MORE CORRECTLY, THE LACK OF IT. What else can be expected from a 10% strike rate  / 40 years addict?

If you want to be the most law abiding citizen that you are trying to project yourself to be, you will have to be PROACTIVE and find out your own liability from the consultants. It will cost something but do it. Don't be stingy.

You can't change the reality simply by being in denial on an open forum. The more you keep denying your liability, the more you will be exposing your charade. Don't waste everybody's time because of your bull headed antics.

Kauilya,

You  are  no  different  than  the  clever crook and  biased newsreporter who  is doing  it everyday  by  SELECTIVELY picking sentences or  passages, from  the sppech or report  or  a  book and  trying  to  belittle or  pull down someone...

I've  aleady explained , before  you  could  comment , that  my return  of  Mumbai(-8) and  Hyderabad(-31) are negative but  this  loss  has  been  wiped  by  my  wins  from  Bangalore  and  I'm  having  a  positive ROI which  is  poor -refer my  post  of  18/6/21.

By  cleverly  picking selectively loss  making  post  and  ignoring the complete returns you  stand  exposed  as  a biased person...

But  to  top  it  all you  have  FAILED  AGAIN   to  put  the  correct  dates  in  your  CORRECTED   post. Example : 1/11/21 Hyderabad you  jump  to  10/11/21??? 10/11/21 IS  YET TO  COME!!!

I'm  not  going  to  waste  my  time  in responding  to  your  SELECTIVE picking  posts  in  future...

IIM Blue,

"you have managed to spoil each and every thread....".

I do not think I am holding up any discussion.  Even in my wildest dreams, I have never thought myself so powerful that I can stop any discussion.  You please mention one or two threads where I have spoiled the smooth flow of discussion. 

You are telling that after making my point clear, I should leave the matter!  I do not know whether to cry or laugh at what you say.  100s of horsetalk members are asking me to stop bashing bookies.  You are the 101st.

Of course, if you are a proud owner of any blog, you certainly can choose who should write there and who should not write there (in that blog).  

"Stop thinking that you are "superior"...."

I know damn well that I am not superior to others.  And, simultaneously, I know that I am not inferior to others as well.

You endorsed as correct the narrative of Speed & Dancing dynamite.  And passed a left handed compliment that I am claiming to be the only honest person.  You may admire Speed & Dancing dynamite as supreme authority in taxation matters; but their ruling is not binding on me.  There are well established institutions and competent people who have been delegated powers to interpret Law, Acts etc. 

I asked you to reproduce verbatim the income tax rule or case law in support of your claim.  There is no reply from you.  But, your silence speak volumes.  

You agree with Spade & Dancing dynamite.   Certainly I do not have any objection. Tell me how much tax you have paid on race winnings during the last 10 years?  Bland statements like "I do not support any tax evasion" is not sufficient here.  

"I have just proved that you can not take moral high ground!"

I am not claiming any moral high ground.  I am writing like this for 9 years and "moral high ground" is the last thing in my mind.  You have a fertile imagination & sharp eye.  You are seeing something that majority of horse talkers are not seeing.  Do not bother what ground I am seeking.  

"Any thread, half of the posts are from me on the same issue"!

Well.  In that case skip reading my posts.  

Mr C

So as per error pointed out by yu i have revsed the returns as follow. As i said it didnt make much difference.. Your still in loss albeit less than before but still in LOSS. 

Will post January series by afternoon. 

Dear Friends:

With respect to our beloved friends claims, I have taken some pains to verify the claims. I went through his posting for the month of December 2019 and and calculated returns on the basis of his posts. Feel free to cross check. I have copied his selections as it is in his words.

HERE ARE THE COLD FACTS:

BET DETAILS:

Unit Net 1000

1/11/2021:  HYDERABAD

Race 5 : Handsome  Duo can not  win and  in  race  7  Air Salute can also lose

Both horses lost.. Kudos .. great start.

 {+ 4250 }

10/11/21: HYDERABAD

1)  317                    { -1000 } no.3 lost

2)   2                        { +350 }  2 WON @ 35P

3)   (438)                 { +500 } 4 WON @ 2.5

4)   243                    { -1000 } no.2 lost

5)   (231)                 { -3000 }

6)   (813)                { -3000 }                      

NET { -9150 }

1/12/2021: MUMBAI

1)   Titanium – EW                           { +750 } Ttanium placed @ 1.75

2)   Moriseiki                                     {-1000 }

3)  Valegro -Win, Tasawwur –Place  { -700 } Tasawwur placed @ 30p

4)   mozart-P                                       { 000 }

5)XXXXXXXXXXXXX

6) ????????

NET { -950 }

02/12/2021: HYDERABAD

R1)  721                                       { -1000 } 7 lost

R2)   652                                      { -1000 } 6 lost

R3) 423                                         { +2000  }

R4)    361 OPEN RACE               { -1000 } 3 lost

R5)    (516)                                    { 0000 }

R6)   (651) OPEN RACE              { -900 }

R7)   (831)                                     { -3000 }  

NET: { -4900 }     

4/12/2019: MYSURU

1)   3                           {+550}

2)  10 EachWay          {-2000}

3)  12  W , 9 Place       {-2000}

4) 67  jodi                     {+1000}

5)   xxxxx

6)   xxxx

NET: {-2450}

8/12/2019: MUMBAI

Favorites  of  races  no. 2 and  3  will  lose  but  favorite  of  race  no  4  can  win....

Result: Favorites  of  races  no. 2 and  3  won &  favorite  of  race  no  4  lost

-1600 plus -1400 plus -1000

NET: {-4000}

8/12/2019: HYDERABAD

Favorites  cannot win  races  no.  3 and 4...

RESULT: Favorites  of  races  no.  3 WON and 4 LOST

NET: {+650}

9/12/2019: HYDERABAD

race  no  3 - favorite  will  lose....

race  no  7  will  be  won  by  second  or  third favorite...

RESULT: race  no  3 - favorite LOST {+1000}

race  no  7  won  by  SECOND favourite {+4000} * it cant be more vague statemnt than this but still gave benefit of doubt.

NET: {+8500}

 11/12/2019: MYSURU

FAVORITE  WILL  NOT  WIN   1, 3 & 6  RACE OF  THE  DAY...

RESULT: Fav of 1,6 lost and fav of 3 won

+1000, +1000, -1300

NET: {-700}

12/12/2019: BANGALORE

race 1)  Custom  cut  will  win  if  Turf  Prospector's  jockey  falters or  takes  it  easy

2) Desert  combat  should win, but  note  smile  of  face

3)Slice  of  Heaven  will  win ; but what  Yevor  is  doing  on  no. 12 ?

improving odds?

RESULT: Custom cut won {+1000}, Desert Combat Lost {-1000}, Slice of heaven lost {-1000}

 Not considering second choices even if vague and  also they didn’t win.

NET: {-3000}

29/12/2019: MUMBAI

1)  21 jodi   ( 1 wonat 85p) {-250}

2)   351            (3 won at 92p)  {+920}

3)   156  open race (5 wo @ 6.25) {+4250}

4)  325   (3 won @ 80p)  {+800}

5)   351  open race  (3 lost) {-1000}

6)  712 ( 7 lost)  {-1000}

NET: {+4720}

MONTHLY NET: -02130 plus taxes if any. I suppose man who worked in defence has some principles and pays some taxes.

When a punter is buying a ticket , his name is not printed on it.The ticket remains nameless.Same thing when he receives a payment.

The name is entered only when the payment exceeds rs 10,000.Even then one cannot be sure that the presenter and buyer are one and the same.

Then there is provision for breaking tickets in to smaller denominations.This is part of tax management , and certainly not illegal.

The punter is most unfortunate person in the world.He is unjustifiably taxed and excessively taxed.There is tax for betting , there is tax for getting payment....there is no "set off" .It cannot go worse than that ..., ,.one thought.

But no....GST at 28 % ....that too on betting amount plus club commissions, just flattened tbe punters.Now the anamoly is set right by courts ,but who will pay for misinterpreting the provisions of law and causing irreparable damage to the punters ?

Conclusion : It is up to the hardpressed racegoer to take his own decision , where he should bet ,how he should bet ,what he should bet etc.No one has any right to comment on behavior of individuals , when the entire system is stinking.Stop thinking that you are "superior " to others and can pass a "judgement " on acts of others.Watch your own plate.......and you will be horrified !

.

Mr.Raghavan ,

I donot bet with bookies nor I support any tax evasion.

My point is you donot allow any serious discussion by unneccessarily bringing "half tax issue " and your so called "expose "of other punters.Once you have made your point , you should allow that matter to rest in that thread itself.

But no...you have managed to spoil each and every thread by sidelining the main issue and bringing in your own issues.Any thread ,half the posts are by you on the same and same issue.

I have just proved that you cannot take the moral high ground you are seeking and claiming!.Donot play spoilsport over the threads of others.

Ksmrow,

First things first.  I am speaking of reality.   I still maintain that you will not find a punter who wins 3 to 4 races consistently everyday.  Of course, I had in mind a punter who bets one horse per race in all the races of the day.  (average 8 races per day). 

I did not consider about Chanakya's bets.  You are sying that he bets 10 to 12 horses per day.   My observation is that his bets some time touch 15, 18 or 20 horses per day.  Of course, betting like that he can certainly win 3 or 4 bets in a day.  But, in such cases, in majority of days the dividends that he gets will be less than investment/s.  

When I used to bet for win or place, my strike rate was much less than 33% because I was never betting on odds on favorites.  And, it dropped to less than 15% after I started betting on forecast pool.  My heartiest best wishes to those punters who have higher strike rate.  

Coming back to the issue under discussion, I speak with my experience as punter.  That it is not possible to achieve a strike rate of 30%, if you are betting on horses (that are mostly 2nd or 3rd favorites) that are quoted between 4.5 to 5.0.  In my assessment, one can at best win 12 to 15 bets out of 100 attempts.  However, I agree that there may be punters who are much smarter than myself.

shrinivas - jodi means -first and second favourite -you can lay or play 90% of the races with on phone bookies - laying place can only be done in the ring - as for laying longer bets that too happens only in the ring if your payment credibility is very strong - find a bookie or his employee you will learn quicker -[stay far away from tote or tote punters in the ring] ..........betting is injurious to health, wealth and self-respect .....my advice dont go deeper in the ocean there are sharks there ..

Raghu the tote- I was not always winning =overall winning=look you have nothing to fear since you are in the majority - about my experience which is a lot different i will share whenever asked or i feel like if i want to elaborate i will none of your business .

raghavan,

Please read about 30% and 4.6avarage odds where and when mentioned don't  seeClubbing together read once again,for your clarity 1&2 are my Views on type of betting. 

Read 3,4,5,6 regarding 10;12Bets for day,7 is on you

1)If one bets a single horse in each race restrain backing odds on favourites then 30% Strikerate good enough.

2)If one plays 2horses in every Race then one needs to win 5or6races each day from card of 7 or 8 races.

3)10 to12 bets of CK;my view  expressed.

4) out of curiosity; sample 10 race days 333 winning odds of 72 races in 2018 winter BNG results  gave  4.6 average odds for a winner.(Sample is small )

5)calculation ; money,time,energy and above Average ability required

Final outcome varies muchOn long shots if one fails to identify & pick half of higher odds winners each Race day.

6)remarks> in cricket if a Bowler takes 3wickts in a innings we say Good 4 very good it fits to racing as well, my remarks refers for 3 to4 winners out of 10 to 12bets 1win out 3 falling in 33%wins(strikerate )

Quite possible , foolishness to say only one from haven or other planets can do it  any astute punter can win3,4 out 10,12 bets(CK may do it)

7) you as rank pessimist i never said or feel, once or twice commented on your writing prowess,on yours 30+ years racing my opinion only fittest survives so long, on your 15% forcast bets strikerate wipes yours perennial   losers Tag.

IIM Blue,

Why are putting words in my mouth?  When or where I have claimed that I am the only honest person in race course?

I am criticising bookies for taking bets at half tax.  Majority of punters are betting with bookies and my posts are definitely irritating to them.  But, I never expected you also to join their party.  It was very much disappointing to me to see you siding with them.

I thought that you are also against bookies accepting the bets at 10%.  But, you also started to play to the gallery.

Let me remind you of  what you said on earlier occasion.  (Thread "Betting strategy by Chanakya kowshik on date 20/6/2020).

on date 26-6-2020, 10.50pm, you said,  "How can illegal betting and cheating on tax can be presented as a betting strategy with a call to others to follow?"

on date 26-6-2020 10.43 pm you said  to Chanakya-

"I do not have to prove to anyone that I am a law abiding citizen.

"I always bet at BTC tote and question of cheating the Government of taxes never arose.

"You have already declared that you have no respect for law nor for tax authorities.  And I believe in you"

On date  24-6-2020, 01.01pm you said "why the Government should be eager to start races to please those punters who dont want to pay tax.  By the action of this class of punters, owners & other professionals, the tax collection figures are so miniscule that it is almost laughable.  The govt is not losing significant sum of money because racing activities have come to a standstill"

"What brought things to this state?  Cheating on payment of legitimate tax has been happening for a long time....  Only some punters are left to defend this system.  They had the choice of migrating to the totes, but paying legitimate taxes is not their cup of tea."

On 22-6-2020, 12.45pm, addressed to Chanakya you said,

"Any betting on which you don't pay full tax is illegal...PLAIN & SIMPLE".

*******

That is your criticisms are as much or even more severe than mine.  

Today Chanakya is posting letters appreciating you. 

And, you are posting letter appreciating Dancing dynamite.  That man who boasted that he will not pay tax on betting & winning!  And, what post you are appreciating?  The one which has no valid , legal support?  Regarding Spade & Dancing dynamite, I can understand.  They are punters who bet with bookies and my posts compel them to buy burnol.  But, you!  Changing colours like chameleon!  

Never compromise on your principles.  You may definitely get some additional friends.  But, expose you to the charge of hypocrite.

@ Buddy 

Thanks for ur reply 

U know very interesting to see u that . We can lay 10 to 1 odds and we can lay place bet also  . Buddy sir I think there is lot of things to play with bookie lik something called jodi and few more lays which I don't know properly . I think ur very much experienced with all these , I am very much interested to learn and play all these . Please let us know what u know share ur experience sir. .

Buddy,

Benny Binion, the owner of Horseshoe casino created "the poker hall of fame" to preserve the names & legacies of world's greatest poker players.

In India, Dr MAM, Deepak Khaitan etc should have thought of and created "THE BETTOR HALL OF FAME IN INDIA" to preserve the names and legacies of greatest horse race bettors in India.  Unfortunately Almighty was pleased to recall them back to heavenly abode.  

Certainly, your name would have been included among THE BETTOR HALL OF FAME IN INDIA.

You bet 4 days in a week, in the range of one lakh, two lakhs, five lakhs & ten lakhs and go home with a profit of double or treble of your investment.  And, as if betting for win or place is not sufficient, you also eat favorites on a lot of occasions.  And of course you were always winning. 

I can not understand why you could not resist the temptation to brag.  That too grand lies.  

If what you say is true, you should be owning at least 4 flats of 3600 sq ft at posh localities in Mumbai, half a dozen mercedes benz, private jet and several kilograms of Gold.   (Even after discounting enough because you lost entire cash balance during the last lap of betting career).

Srinivas has asked you just one simple question.  "do all bookies take lay bets?"   Just answer that.  He will certainly consult you if he finds your answer insufficient.   

No doubt, you were commanding high degree of credibility.   Agreed that you were getting hefty discount in taxes.  But  I do not think Shrinivas has asked you all those.details.  Why you should brief him about your high end betting.  

Do not boast.  Your pack of lies will fool no body.   You were only an ordinary bettor.  You would not have engaged me in conversation for more than four years if you were really betting such high amount.  I do bet low and I am a consistent loser.  Only people who bet 500/1000 or maximum 2000 will be speaking to me. 

Tell that you were also betting 500/1000 etc.  I can accept that.  Do not mention to me about your astronomical bets.  People who bet in that volume will generally prefer to speak to high end punters only. 

IIM Blue,

Thanks for sharing your expertise in Income tax rulings.  In fact every horsetalk member can be proud of the fact that there is one among them who is an authority in Income tax rules.  

So, income of 200 or 500 or 2000 etc must be declared in tax returns & tax should be paid at 30%.  Previous losses or subsequent losses absolutely does not discharge a punter from liability to pay tax.  In spite of knowing such provisions in law, Dancing dynamite has declared that he does not pay tax on bets & winnings.   I do not know about Spade.  And the third person who is teaching the provisions of law is IIM Blue, that is yourself.

You may share the quantum of income tax paid by you with other horsetalk members.

I however maintain that I am not liable to pay tax.  Your explanations and clarifications notwithstanding.  I believe in Income Tax Act.  I believe in  case law.  You reproduce verbatim any Income tax ruling to support your views or case laws in this matter.   Alternatively, at least, you mention Government of India instructions on this point.  Do not cite some rubbish and/or pack of non sense and claim that what you say is the actual position under LAW.  

The income tax department is running as per Income tax act, case law and Government of India instructions.  People who claim themselves tax expert should understand that there are 100s of appeals by Chartered accountants, Tax lawyers etc against Income tax officers and the arbitrator or appellate authority passes the final orders.  If the parties are not satisfied with orders of appellate authority also, case reaches Court or Tribunal.  When there are so much differences in interpretation of rules among Tax lawyers, Auditors itself,  views of IIM blue, Dancing dynamite,  Spade  & Raghavan does not carry much weight.  If you people are satisfied that I am a tax evader, you are fully at liberty to continue with that mindset.  In all probabilities, you three also may be tax evaders.   (And also the entire group of punters who may number one lakh at least).  Dancing dynamite has openly declared that he does not pay tax on winnings.  

I am not interested in convincing you that I am a tax payer or tax evader.  Tax due is deducted at source if my income in any race exceed 10,000/-,  Fortunately or unfortunately, I had not received 10k profit an any race so far.  When the slab was 2,500/- or 5,000/- there were some instances of tax for which I have submitted my PAN number to BTC.  I deal the issue  of income tax as per my understanding.  Right or wrong, I do not  bother.  Would rather be pleased to hear the tax paid by Spade and yourself from your winnings on horse race bettings.  Let me see what tax you have paid under the head Income from other sources and sub head income from horse race.  It must be substantial during last 10 years.  Considering your higher strike rate your winnings taken in isolation must be in excess of 5 lakhs per year.   Of course as per your interpretation there is no need to consider the losses.

My understanding of income from horse races is total dividends received less cost of tickets purchased.   If it is in negative, then the income should be considered zero.  I will certainly respect if CBDT, Finance Minister etc passes orders to the contrary.

And, one more thing.  I will continue to speak against bookies taking bets at 10%.  I have heard strong disapprovals on my posts earlier and you three constitute fresh batch.  Chaltha hai.  

And I am very much pleased that there are no non sense police officers, vigilance officers even in current days.  There were no bookies at BNG during 2020-21 winter season.  Many punters were travelling to Mysore then.  And during 2019-20 winter, the bookies were taught the provisions of law in a harsh manner by the police during their raids on those bookies.  The bookies were also jailed for two or three days before being released on bail.  30 bookies or their assistants were arrested by police at Pune during the 2020-21 winter races. 

So, you continue defending the bookies.  I know there are substantial number of mouth pieces of bookies who are interacting in horse talk.  Well.  Let their numbers multiply.

ok Mr C.

will revise the calculation as per ur objection...  it will hardly make any difference but wont give you an inch though... 

watch this space tomorrow

Ksmrow,

30% wins at average odds of 4.6?  You will understand the difficulty in achieving that much strike rate if & when you seriously make an attempt.

Excuse me if what I say sounds disrespectful or rash.  In India you can achieve 35% strike rate.  Provided, you blindly bet on favorites.  Of course, most of the favorites that win will be at oods on.  At 4.6 average odds, at best you may achieve 12% ti 15% strike rate.  

Let us suppose, in a season there are 100 horses that have decent past performance and ridden by efficient jockeys & quoted between 4.5 to 5.  If you bet on all those 100 horses, at the maximum 15 bets only will win. 

Of course, you seem to be not very much enthusiastic to follow Chanakya.  You are sounding sensible.  Anybody who follows Chanakya will surely end up with coconut shells in his hand.

If one has ability to bet on 3 or 4 winners everyday!   It is foolish and hopeless pursuit of something unattainable.  One can not find a punter who consistently wins 3 or 4 bets everyday either on this planet or at heavens or at netherworld.

Of course, if you feel that I am a rank pessimist, then please excuse me.  

Dancing dynamite,

Reply to your post is given in the thread "major decision in favour of BTC"  dated 3/6/2021 by IIM Blue.

@Dancing Dynamite ,

@Spade ,

Interpretation of both of you is absolutely right.Some people appear to think that "Ignorance is  Bliss".It does not work in tax matters.Some others appear to think that ,TDS is the END , as far as horse racing is concerned.That too is not true.

As per IT Act , there are 5 heads of Income Viz :Salaries ,Income from House Property ,Profits and gains from Business or Profession ,Capital gains and INCOME FROM OTHER SOURCES.

     INCOME FROM HORSE RACES is classified under INCOME FROM OTHER SOURCES(along with lotteries ,crossword puzzles etc) .TDS is applicable at a rate of 30% under this head if the amount exeeds rs 10,000.

    However ,irrespective of that , whatever payment you receive (read devidend payment) at the race course is considered as racing income.THERE IS NO "SETTING OFF " against losses under this head.One cannot claim that overall , he is loser. and he is not liable to pay tax.

The racing income , if declared may result in change in IT SLAB , and hence it must be declared.Even if , the tax liability is NIL ,still it does not stop one from filing his return and show the racing income (aggregate of all dividends he has received in a financial year ) .All the more ,he is claiming to be only honest person left in the race course.

It is THE LAW. PERIOD.

Shrinivas - Inside I used to lay bets at even 10 to 1 provided there was some betting on it - layed lot of place bets -  for a bookie if he feels his money is safe he wont mind giving the bets he also gains something - only thing is at what price - the very hardened greedy one will make it a bit more costly then what it should be . I used to get it at the same price in which the punter played -with 7% tax out of the 9% - but then my credibility was high plus a regular -4 days a week. Raghu not showing off ..was asked.

Shrinivas - All outside[credit] betting comes with lay bets -first favourite lay bet is always on the table -second favourite about 70% of the time and 3rd will be 30% of the time approx - you need a recomendation from a regular bettor to open your a/c - otherwise some may accept cash deposit . Inside the ring is also kinda same - but all bookies inside might not allow lay bets 50% of them will allow - here fair dealing by the bookie is very important otherwise they will try and cheat in the odds - When I did my lay bets in the ring the bookie used to give me 7% tax out of the 9% he used to get - all depends on credibility -value of the punter - in todays time things must have changed -times have changed - become very expensive for bookies to run a stall

kautilya,

you  are  no  different than those  clever and  biased  people  who  twist  and  SELECTIVELY pickup the points to  make  them look correct  while  they are  miles  away from  the  truth.

For  example I will  select your posting of  17/6/21 11.18am,

you  gave  my  selections and  result

1)10/11/221 ; which  is  this  date? past  or  future?

2) 317    (-3000) ; 317 not  bracketed, loss  should  be  -1100, wherefrom  you  got  -3000?

SELECTIVE  picking  shows your intentions...

no  more  response  to  you, however  50k to  500k  stands and  I'll  search your  choices all  over  the  forums when  normal  racing  starts... 

Ksmrow,

your  analysis  is very  correct. If  odds  on  is  left then  30-33% strike  rate will give  good positive  ROI.

Yes, since  last  few  years I've  changed  my  betting  strategy. Earlier  I  used to  bet  on  select  few  races, say 3 or  4  races which  invariably had  predominance  of  favorites and  my  ROI  though  positive but was  poor. After  doing  some  'dry runs'  on  my  selections  I  switched  over  to  the  present system - betting  on  all races  and betiing  on  more  than  1  runner (2 or 3 runners)  in  few  races. This  made  me  to  bet  on 10  to  12  runners  in a  card  of  7 or  8  races but  has  paid  me  very  good  dividends.

for  example, in 2019/20  from 29/12/19 to  12/3/20 (when racing  stopped) my Mumbai returns were  + 70 points, Bangalore + 20  points. Only  Mysore (-13points) & Kolkata (-2 points) gave negative (loss)  returns.

Even  this  2020/21 season while Bangalore  gave  me + 48 points, Mumbai(-8) and  Hyderabad(-31)  oss  was  compensated giving  a  below average positive  ROI....

 Strike rate needed  to win with betting  on one horse in a race if you restrain from odds on favourites i think 30% strikerate good enough,

If one backs 2 horses he needed 5 or 6winners for day card of 7&8 races.what i understand chankyaji betting is 10 horses if card is 7races & 12 horses for 8races half of the bets are single choice even 33% strikerate can give him 2 loosing races in the remaining 4 multiple bet races atleast one loosing race with that  totalling 3 minimum lost races every day on average. 

I think almost impossible for anyone to be fallowed  it is much laboures way to be executed may have suited to chankya ji for +Roi, leave this unique method for him only.

Everyone try and change their strategy according to results of his systems  (method) here we see not addressed to system failure (improvement) insted increased horses to win more  races good luck to him

Just for curiosity i took a sample of 2018 BNG Winter Races conducted for 10days in the beginning of season of 72 Races totall winning odds are 333 with the average 4.6Win odds;

Let us calculate 10 or12bets:

1)33%wins36single bets=12

Average odds4.6×12=55

ie 12+55-24=+43000-tax

2)40%of36races72bets=14 

ie14+64-58=+20000-Tax

43000+20000-10800Tax

=+52200 in Ten racedays.

Remarks>From this if one has money, time,energy to excute plan with this abov Average selections system one will be in gain if one has ability to win 3 to 4races in a day(3.5avg).

The biggest mistake by Punter in his life is nothing but opening up his passion/ weakness about racing to friends and family. That moment onwards he will loosely trusted by them. Do not compromise family life for racing. 

KAUTILYA

you have worker really hard to prove Chanakya wrong. Hats off to you. 

Raghavan,

Answer to your below query in another thread.  I am posting it here because that thread is practically dead

Quote"Spade, You are saying this much. Suppose a punter bets 500 each in 20 races in a year; Only two bets pass giving him dividend of 1500 & 2500. So, the profit in these two races is 3,000. Of course, the other 18 bets failed & the loss is 9,000/-. You are saying that a punter has to pay the tax on 3,000/- even though he is overall under loss. I do not agree with your interpretation. So, it is better if you give some additional information. Please illustrate with at least 2 case laws where the court judge, tribunal judge or appellate authority has passed a speaking order upholding your point of view."

I dont have the case law but let me tell you the law.  You can only claim deduction if you are into that business.  So for claiming deduction of losses, you should be registered as professional gambler in IT department (dont know whether its allowed in India or not, but foreign countries allow individual to register themselves as gamblers}.  In any other case, all winnings be taken in totallity without deduction of losses.

Unit bet considered as 1000rs.....

@ Buddy 

Will every bookie takes the money if we lay favourite . I heard only few will take. Can u help me with this.  .

Dear Friends:

With respect to our beloved friends claims, I have taken some pains to verify the claims. I went through his posting for the month of December 2019 and and calculated returns on the basis of his posts. Feel free to cross check. I have copied his selections as it is in his words.

HERE ARE THE COLD FACTS:

BET DETAILS:

1/11/2021:  HYDERABAD

Race 5 : Handsome  Duo can not  win and  in  race  7  Air Salute can also lose

Both horses lost.. Kudos .. great start.

 {+ 4250 }

10/11/221: HYDERABAD

1)  317                    { -3000 }

2)   2                        { +350 }  2 WON @ 35P

3)   (438)                 { +500 } 4 WON @ 2.5

4)   243                    { -1200 } 3 WON @ 80P

5)   (231)                 { -3000 }

6)   (813)                { -3000 }                      

NET { -9350 }

1/12/2021: MUMBAI

1)   Titanium – EW                           { +750 } Ttanium placed @ 1.75

2)   Moriseiki                                     {-1000 }

3)  Valegro -Win, Tasawwur –Place  { -700 } Tasawwur placed @ 30p

4)   mozart-P                                       { 000 }

5)XXXXXXXXXXXXX

6) ????????

NET { -950 }

02/12/2021: HYDERABAD

R1)  721                                       { -1500 }

R2)   652                                      { -3000 }

R3) 423                                         { +1000  }

R4)    361 OPEN RACE               { -3000 }

R5)    (516)                                    { 0000 }

R6)   (651) OPEN RACE              { -900 }

R7)   (831)                                     { -3000 }  

NET: { -10400 }                            

4/12/2019: MYSURU

1)   3                           {+550}

2)  10 EachWay          {-2000}

3)  12  W , 9 Place       {-2000}

4) 67  jodi                     {+1000}

5)   xxxxx

6)   xxxx

NET: {-2450}

8/12/2019: MUMBAI

Favorites  of  races  no. 2 and  3  will  lose  but  favorite  of  race  no  4  can  win....

Result: Favorites  of  races  no. 2 and  3  won &  favorite  of  race  no  4  lost

-1600 plus -1400 plus -1000

NET: {-4000}

8/12/2019: HYDERABAD

Favorites  cannot win  races  no.  3 and 4...

RESULT: Favorites  of  races  no.  3 WON and 4 LOST

NET: {+650}

9/12/2019: HYDERABAD

race  no  3 - favorite  will  lose....

race  no  7  will  be  won  by  second  or  third favorite...

RESULT: race  no  3 - favorite LOST {+1000}

race  no  7  won  by  SECOND favourite {+4000} * it cant be more vague statemnt than this but still gave benefit of doubt.

NET: {+8500}

 11/12/2019: MYSURU

FAVORITE  WILL  NOT  WIN   1, 3 & 6  RACE OF  THE  DAY...

RESULT: Fav of 1,6 lost and fav of 3 won

+1000, +1000, -1300

NET: {-700}

12/12/2019: BANGALORE

race 1)  Custom  cut  will  win  if  Turf  Prospector's  jockey  falters or  takes  it  easy

2) Desert  combat  should win, but  note  smile  of  face

3)Slice  of  Heaven  will  win ; but what  Yevor  is  doing  on  no. 12 ?

improving odds?

RESULT: Custom cut won {+1000}, Desert Combat Lost {-1000}, Slice of heaven lost {-1000}

 Not considering second choices even if vague and  also they didn’t win.

NET: {-3000}

29/12/2019: MUMBAI

1)  21 jodi   ( 1 wonat 85p) {-250}

2)   351            (3 won at 92p)  {-1080}

3)   156  open race (5 wo @ 6.25) {+4250}

4)  325   (3 won @ 80p)  {-2200}

5)   351  open race  (5 won @ 3.6) {+1600}

6)  712 ( 2on @ 2.75)  {+750}

NET: {+3070}

MOMTHLY NET: -14380

I have not added taxes.

He made 82 bets in month of dec 2019 so tax amounts to 8200

So with tax the losses are 22580 RS..

AND THE MAN IS CLAIMING TO TURN 50K TO 500K.

HE HAS LOST ALMOST 50% CAPITAL HERE.

 WILL POST HIS JAN 2020 SHEET HERE IN FEW DAYS.

DOODH KA DOODH PAANI KA PAANI !!!!!

4 must and should follow to be a winner.

1.patience.

2.consistence betting.

3.play your own money.

4.forget yesterday.think only present.

Buddy,

Dilemma will be there.  There is no cure.  It all requires me just 3 horses to convert 25k to 6.25  lakhs.  By rolling three horses that are quoted at 2 to 1.  That is cool 6 lakh profit.  And the beauty is you need not win that 6 lakh in just one day.  You can do it in one week or two weeks or one month.

But, speak of reality.  Can you bet 3 horses like that.  By betting 25 k & collecting 75k itself requires 56 inches chest.  Next bet should be 75k.  And the third bet (presuming 2nd bet passes) should be 2.25 lakhs.  A virtual impossibility at least to me!

You may have the guts to bet like that.  But, it is always better to stick to a betting unit that is 1% of your bank balance.  That is if you have one lakh bank balance, you can bet 1,000/-.  People who like to bet one lakh should have one crore bank balance.  (But,  it is a different matter that I am not at all able to understand why a man with 1 crore bank balance should bet at races).

Buddy,

"A punter will be in confusion.  Whether to bet for win or eat favorites...  Whether to lay the jodi..Or whether to play for place on a horse that has higher odds for win.  Only luck play a big part".

You dismissed my posts on "do punters win? or do bookies lose?" as nothing more than kindergarden / child like questions.  I asked you to contribute Phd level research thesis.  Today you are coming with such a statement which even a punter with 2 days exposure to betting at race course knows.  A man who bets 1 lakh, 2 lakhs, 5 lakhs, 10 lakhs etc should definitely avoid such rotten postings.

Buddy,

You are asking punters not not to bet on shp/trinella/jackpot.

One thing Mr Buddy.  Avoid advising fellow horsetalk members.  Every punter has gunnybag loads of advises at his disposal and is definitely ready to give advises free to anybody who ask for it & also to those who does not ask for it.  And of course, each punter will be having his own ideas to bet on one or other pool.  No one gives a damn as to what Raghavan's bets are.

One thing as clear as Sunlight is every punter is a loser.  And many punters would have paid a very heavy price before realising such simple truth.  At banks you will get less than 7% interest for fixed deposits for one year and such interest/s gained forms part of income to be disclosed in your income tax returns.  You must have heard the trick of several con men who lure you to deposit your amount and buy articles worth double amount at the end of 3rd month,  So, think yourself how one can be assured of dividends at 70ps, even money etc for deposits of less than 20 minutes?

Dispense advises in plenty to a punter who asks you loan of 500/-.   

Of course, I also advise fellow punters to bet low, bet maximum on 2 or 3 horses in a day.  My advise is only to reassure punters that there is no shame in betting low, betting in less number of races and thereby CUTTING THE LOSSES.  But I never ask any punter to bet on a particular pool OR not to bet on any particular pool.

Kautilya

It is very difficult to win playing all races. But if Chanakya claims so we should have any problem. Let him win and enjoy his money. We should be  concerned about our game and our money.  Focus on the topic, are you making these mistakes if yes correct yourself if no fine.

read... 

2-3 horses in a race not 23 horses in a race in previous post. 

Ab Delhi

reference to your 1st point. 

Your are ardent fan of someone who plays all races and that too 23 horses in a races and still wins enough to fund foreign trips. How can that be a mistake??? 

Thank U for the quality home work provided at this point of non-racing era handed out to race-goers by the deadly pandemic. I truely appreciate the points enlisted by U. I personally do agree with U. One important point I would like to add to your list of common mistakes is this:  without understanding the basic point that the selections given by the race books / newspaper s are that of an individual racing correspondent most of the time and most of the punters go after the so-called DAYS BEST & GOOD DOUBLE choices of these race books,etc. At OOTY race course, I've seen punters falling prey to these choices, particularly to ' THE HINDU' picks.This has to be avoided if one is a knowledgeable punter.Otherwise , as quoted by someone, spending time in a race course is a pleasureable experience for retired people like me. I do cherish my occasional trips to Mysore race course in particular apart from my home town OOTY.

Ab-Delhi,

We punters are betting 2 or  maximum 3 bets a day.  And, yet end up losing many days.  Those who bet for win/place may win one out of four bets OR one out of three bets.  Though in the long run he may be a loser, he will not end up as care of platform.   I bet on forecast only.  Win one out of 7 or 8 bets.  In the long run, I am definitely a loser.  But, I know all punters are losers only.  There may be some notable exceptions where a punter has solved single ticket jackpot, exacta or trinella.

Look trainers meet each other twice eveyday or atleast once everyday- they discuss the races even plan and plot -that is why one may be great at paper handicapping but it wont help unless they are good even at paddock handicapping ...otherwise a very good judge of horses will self doubt his paper handicapping and turn towards other methods -will keep going around losing - so should understand both and win regularly to move forward make money ......not easy some you gooto learn on your own -some you need to learn from an expert ......watching Raghu you can learn what not to do -  shp /tannala/ jackpot etc.

THere is always the dilemma - even if you stick with your choice - mine was - Should I lay the fav or back the horse at longer odds[same race] or back the longer odds in place -or lay the jodi ....so luck does play a big part .

Most common mistake a punter makes:

He chases losses.  Last 25% of his bet capital for the day just goes down the drain to recover his losses.

Secondly, most common dialogue by punters in race course when a non-favourite wins:

Ghar se to isi jeetne wale ghode ko select kar ke aaya tha.  par yahaan aakar favourite khel diya.

CHAMP 

why you are sounding so frustrated . Just because somebody is claming he is winning playing all the races and funding his foreign trips why should you be frustrated. Be concerned a bought your game and money man. It is a fact that winning is very difficult playing all races. As far as  following somebody is concerned this is ome mistake that i never made in racing right from day one. Even if a owner comes at tells me that this horse is winning I will not play  unless I like that horse. There are good no of punters that follow me.

Ab-delhi,

Making mistkes  is  normal  to  humans. everyone makes  mistakes but  the  wise  one  is  the  one  who  does  not  repeat it . He  only  can  be  a  winner  in  this  game....

A punter is victim of his own sucess.This success will lead him to bigger failures .

Why a punter comes to racing ? Obviously , to win!.Continuos failue day in and day out , will make anyone to quit racing  !!.Unfortunately , it does not happen that way.Even a person with poor selection methodology , has to win sometimes.So in the mind of a punter he won because he is a genius in selection ,he lost because of race adjustment /bookie/jockey/club, etc.

My point is --punter falters the moment he applies the his winning methodology to other races and starts betting big believing in his own analysis.The horse won alright, but not for the reasons he is ascribing it to.!The moment he applies this faulty logic to other races ,he is bound to fail,because the assumption on which his selection is based is all wrong.

I will give an example.In the mid nineties ,there was this well bred 3 y.o owned by VM and trained by Rashid Byramji running in a 5 A race.The horse ridden by C.Ruzzan was quoted at even money and generally expected to win.As the horses came out of starting stall ,Ruzzan to his horror  found that the blindfolds had not been removed.He had presence of mind to remove it but by that time he was 100 metres behind the field.The horse yet won comfortably to the collective sigh of everyone ,more particularly the starter and the stipendary stewards.Immediately , the punters labelled horse as a horse with classic potential.It was backed by punters heavily, whenever it ran thereafter but the horse ran like dud everytime ,never won again and thankfully retired.

In reality , the horse was a 'morning glory' but had built a 'halo' around him before his debut.It appeared that all jockies ,and trainers had taken its win forgranted and there were no other triers in the race.The  other jockies were alarmed when they realised that the horse was not running with the bunch  and decided to wait and wait and wait.With great collective effort , they managed to see the horse at winning post.The very poor timing for a mile race was testimony to that ! Punters had all read the result wrong and paid for it.

madar R>C -yeah way to go I knew a few who din't mind losing 500 or thousand bucks with an average of 10 to 15 grand a month just for the entertainment and meeting friends -thay were in a different category - had fixed income coming to them - retired and settled .

You're wrong Ab Delhi. I know of someone in this forum who bets in all races on all horses who, in parade,  move heads North in Delhi races, South during Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai races, East during Kolkata races & West during Mumbai Pune races. And he makes millions & enjoys Summer Holidays in Europe & Us by betting on 30 horses a day. Go find him & be his follower to be a winner in races:)

Dear HORSE TALK of  INDIARACE.COM paticipants,, 

Going / Visiting/ attending  HORSE RACE is totally not a gambling phenomenon, there is entertainment, time-passing comparatively at a cheaper cost. 

Secondly, nobody can predict a 100 % win, Once  Learned Chettiar Horse with Prakash astride fell miserably to Jocky Beloose.

Win or lose a different matter.

Who is asking you to go for betting on a larger scale.? Because you have excess money o greed.

For me, it is  a meeting ponit. I also go for bet both with bookies and tote.

But I have a practice of taking not more than Rs. 1000/- for a race day. The Joke  is INDIARACE..COM 'tips' paid me some occasions, and I failed to follow on some tips.

However loss is certain, but the enjoyment is  awsome, if not curous.

Madar.RC

Important for punters;

Fundamentals of sound financial discipline and planning.(your Bet ammount shouldbe only 5% of Bank ie money one keep for races)

Fundamentals never change yet with time we lose sight of them.(favourite wins 30% if you bet on top rated Beyer or timeform horses they win only 32%to35%)

THE 3X EMERGENCY FUND RULE* You must always own an emergency fund that's at least three times your current monthly income. That's the bare minimum. You can go up to six months and keep building if you feel the need to do so. This is up to you. This fund will keep you financially stable in emergencies such as loss of employment, urgent travel, repairs, etc.( horseracing loss shouldn't be more than your EF)

THE 8% RULE*

Before you make any long-term investment, ask yourself: will it pay you at least 8% returns per annum after taxes? If not, reconsider your decision to invest. The benchmark refers to returns from small savings schemes such as the Public Provident Fund, which currently provides tax-free returns of 7.9 per cent per annum on investments up to Rs 1.5 lakh per year. If your investment can't beat PPF, then it may not be worth your while(This is for Tipster or punters whose +ROI is less re look in to system try  for better or stop racing )

PRAKASH KN 

thanks

SPADE

You have raised very good points. Discussing ur selection with others will always confuse you. For example you like no 3 but some body will tell you no 2 is going and you will see there is betting on no 2 . one will definetely get tempted to play no 2. But the result will be no 3 on board and no 2 board out.

Switched ON says Spade - good points by him -  

The key is to have the 'know how' to judge the horses whiile reading the runners of the race - and the 'know how' to judge the horse in the paddock going right upto the gate -even after that a mishap or delibrate mis-handling by the jockey can give a serback to your bet .

Dear Ab Delhi sir  100% true that 4 points.very good ur advice. Thank u

Two more mistakes I have noticed.

1. Discussing your selections with others. Most punters are unsure of their selections and will discuss their selections with friends or acuantances. Many times they change their selections after discussion. They end up being neither here nor there.

2. Wavering focus. Many punters keep discussing personal or other matters with their friends which are totally unrelated to racing. They lose focus and pass up the race they have decided to play and make a bet they had never wanted to make. They must remain switched on all the time. If they have decided to pass a race, they must focus and revisit the next race which they have decided to play and further build up their confidence.

BUDDY

very true winning the first bet is very important. But you will find many people complaining that they won 10k or 25k in 2nd race itself but lost the whole money after that.

Some will  complain that  there all the bets passed today but played only one or two bets had they played all could have recovered all there losses.

MANNU

it was not that suddenly one day I realised these mistakes. After every race you will find many people saying I liked the winner but did not back it because somebody else stopped him. These thing happens to most of the punters

Out of these four initially I was making one mistake  the last one. I also used to chase my loses but I have over come that. Now I stop betting if I dont have a sure horse in my selection.

AYYARNET  it is for an individual to decide whether he made a mistake coming to the race or not. I always thank the person who brought me to the racecourse.

Good 4 points - all are okay sensible .

As a regular racegoer I would bet on an average in 50% of the races[that's a lot, 4 days a week] ]patience to have it is good but once you lose in your first bet -you lose patience also. so may I add my one point... 1] make your first bet count try hard to win your first bet of the day - you will have control.

Dear

Iam just asking in your 9 year experience when did you notice this 4 mistakes, 

Dear AB Delhi you are spot on .

I enter race course to only 2 or 3 which ihave selected I don't believe in khabar my habit from years say almost 55 years if my 1st horse wins the other 2 I don't  play .

Consistent betting.aAlways bet with consistency.never increase.

Well said and it's 100% true!!

MISTAKES

Going to Races itself a BIG MISTAKE !!!!!

Ha Ha

ayyarnet